Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[CoreyGallagher]

Why do people keep insisting that LA wants Okafor?

If they wanted him so bad, they would have drafted him last year.

Amen.

I don't agree with the logic. Not saying they would or should, nor am I commenting on the valuation (as I think it's off), but just because they didn't view him as the second best prospect last season doesn't mean that they couldn't this season (even if they actually don't).

[dbodner]

Baby KD ftw:

I mean, these stats are 4 months old, from when Duke was just starting conference play. Just as a representation of just how much they've changed since, his TS% is down nearly 10%, to 55.2%.

[freshie2]

Simmons is not magic, bit that's probably the best comparison I can come up with at this point. His passing is very much like magic, his handle actually may be a little tighter, but he will have to show the same mindset and approach to the game if he's going to be great. Neither were great shooters, and Simmons won't have the same supporting cast, but in terms of style I don't know who else he reminds me of...nobody at his size has the handle, vision, passing that he displays. The interview/personality/drive is the only question mark for Simmons...the shooting will come if he's 'right' above the neck.

[Kolkmania]

Gun to my head, i'm taking Ingram, but damn is it close....Like really close...Like 51% Ingram 49% Simmons. I've seen Ingram be a two way player, dominant on both sides of the ball, I haven't seen Simmons be dominant defensively and that is my biggest concern is his defense.

Simmons never got the chance to show himself on the defensive end because of the zone defense. Actually I believe he never got the chance to show himself on the offensive end as well. It was really frustrating to see the lack of plays designed for Simmons this year, him creating from the elbow could be something magical.

Ingram had a nice role fitting his playstyle in my opinion. He's not the shotcreator Simmons is and wasn't forced to. Letting Grayson Allen drive and kick to Ingram is perfect for him, catch and shoot or attack the closeout. He had some wonderful blocks with those majestic long arms, but not completely sold on the defensive end yet (but that would be a miracle with his age).

What I'm trying to say is that the desired roles and opportunities given by the team and coach matter a lot. Really difficult to look through these kind of things.

Seems to me that between Ingram and Simmons, Simmons was in a better situation to showcase his talent.

The team is built around him and it's obvious.

Simmons’ box scores have grown increasingly hollow. One NBA executive described him as a “taller Rajon Rondo, a more athletic Evan Turner, or a skinnier Royce White.” Simmons has displayed a penchant for stat-mongering like few players in recent memory, seeming to pad his numbers in blowouts. At times, it appears he only passes when guaranteed an assist and chases home-run plays at inopportune times in search of a highlight. Simmons seems to value those things over winning.

- Jonathan Givony

Offense. He was not asked to create that much from the perimeter. He's more of a post player and a roller off PnR on halfcourt.

He has an incredible ability to change speeds, get to the rim and finish in transition. In the half-court, things haven’t been quite as easy against better teams, particularly late in games.

Defense, I thought he has low blocks per game for his size. Specially if he opts to play the PF position.

Overall, Simmons is a match-up nightmare on transition. But I do see him struggling on the half-court setting. He may get to the line but his FT% will hurt him. I also think there's a fundamental flaw on his perimeter shooting, specially with the rumor that he needs to change his shooting hand that would lead him to start from scratch or low base rate. If he can't shoot, there are far more longer wings who will sag off him that limits his ability to create and penetrate.

My suggestion from my experience with Mudiay and Evan Turner. You need to look a prospect in relative to how smooth his transition is from the amateur to the NBA. Don't be fooled by collegiate stats or NBA ready skills. Range is premium at the wings and guards position. You need to be a good post/interior scorer and or can stretch the floor if you will play PF.

Simmons' team was not built around him, they had only one consistent shooter on the roster and he got injured. You want to build your team around him like the Cavs have around James. I disagree with your statement that he's a post player or a roll man as the screener. If you draft Simmons, you have to give him the keys, even in half-court. I do acknowledge that Ingram is the safer pick. Spacing, length on defense, etc, but I want a home run and I do believe Simmons could be a franchise player.

[tsmith]

Im waiting out on interviews, if Simmons shows that he has a good personality and is willing to work hard, then it is more than likely going to be him. To me Simmons-Embiid just sounds so much better than Embiid-Ingram.

[BullyKing]

I'm already getting annoyed with how some people are acting like the choice between these two is so obvious. Can we not? I really don't feel like hearing, we should have taken the other guy that I wanted, every time the guy we do pick misses a free throw.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's express our opinions but not pretend like they are fact.

[PhilasFinest]

I'm still so so torn.

I keep watching and reading up on nearly everything posted on the Internet on these kids and still can't figure out who's the best bet. They are both intriguing prospects and get me excited for Sixers basketball again.

The more I look at measurments, the more Ingram really intrigues me. People often say how "Simmons is a mismatch nightmare" which is true. His combination of fluid athleticism, size, ball handling, vision and body control is simply special.

BUT, Ingram's length is borderline freakish. He may lack the flair, handle and vision Simmons possess but he does add an element of shooting scoring that Simmons lacks. I mean at 18, his size is comparable to Giannis/KD which is truly freak like even on the NBA level, especially for someone with his offensive skills. I think Ingram can be almost just as big of a "matchup nightmare" for opposing defenses.

This is really gonna be a tough decision.

[Sixerscan]

I'm already getting annoyed with how some people are acting like the choice between these two is so obvious. Can we not? I really don't feel like hearing, we should have taken the other guy that I wanted, every time the guy we do pick misses a free throw.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's express our opinions but not pretend like they are fact.

Agreed this is super tough.

[BullyKing]

I'm already getting annoyed with how some people are acting like the choice between these two is so obvious. Can we not? I really don't feel like hearing, we should have taken the other guy that I wanted, every time the guy we do pick misses a free throw.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's express our opinions but not pretend like they are fact.

Agreed this is super tough.

And it's also impossible to really make this call without knowing everything else being discussed behind the scenes. Let's say its 50/50 among fans right now. If tomorrow the Sixers made a trade that basically involved Okafor for Booker, I bet a lot more people would move to the Simmons camp because the need for outside shooting wouldn't be as desperate and the logjam down low not as bad.

For now, I'm sticking to what I said immediately after we got the pick. If we can get a good return for Noel or Okafor, do it and then take Simmons. If people are only offering garbage for them, then take Ingram.

[Sixerscan]

I'm already getting annoyed with how some people are acting like the choice between these two is so obvious. Can we not? I really don't feel like hearing, we should have taken the other guy that I wanted, every time the guy we do pick misses a free throw.

I guess what I'm saying is, let's express our opinions but not pretend like they are fact.

Agreed this is super tough.

And it's also impossible to really make this call without knowing everything else being discussed behind the scenes. Let's say its 50/50 among fans right now. If tomorrow the Sixers made a trade that basically involved Okafor for Booker, I bet a lot more people would move to the Simmons camp because the need for outside shooting wouldn't be as desperate and the logjam down low not as bad.

For now, I'm sticking to what I said immediately after we got the pick. If we can get a good return for Noel or Okafor, do it and then take Simmons. If people are only offering garbage for them, then take Ingram.

My issue with that are that Simmons/Ingram should both be better than Okafor and Noel. I don't think we should pick the best player on our team based on who the (If Embiid is heathy) 3rd and 4th best players on our team are.

[BullyKing]

Agreed this is super tough.

And it's also impossible to really make this call without knowing everything else being discussed behind the scenes. Let's say its 50/50 among fans right now. If tomorrow the Sixers made a trade that basically involved Okafor for Booker, I bet a lot more people would move to the Simmons camp because the need for outside shooting wouldn't be as desperate and the logjam down low not as bad.

For now, I'm sticking to what I said immediately after we got the pick. If we can get a good return for Noel or Okafor, do it and then take Simmons. If people are only offering garbage for them, then take Ingram.

My issue with that are that Simmons/Ingram should both be better than Okafor and Noel. I don't think we should pick the best player on our team based on who the (If Embiid is heathy) 3rd and 4th best players on our team are.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. I'm saying it's a tiebreaker if on draft night, we still don't have a clear preference between them.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Hey....Whats up? I changed my mind this morning to Ben Simmons. Just thought i'd let ya'll know that....Brett Favre-in over here....Might change my mind again later.

[roma258]

Baby KD ftw:

I mean, these stats are 4 months old, from when Duke was just starting conference play. Just as a representation of just how much they've changed since, his TS% is down nearly 10%, to 55.2%.

I mean my post was from January so that makes sense... but yeah, his efficiency went down as they went into conference play and his usage increased. Still compares pretty well overall, still super young, still a fantastic prospect.

[Duke4life831]

For those who question Ingram on if he can do anything more than just shoot 3s. He was arguably the best iso scorer out of the OAD wing prospects we have seen in the last decade.

With that said, the dude has some big question marks. He is super skinny and if you look at the super skinny guys that are successful the 3 that come to mind are Giannis, PG and KD. Giannis and PG are both far superior athletes, Ingram can actuality get up pretty high but he doesn't move as well as those two and not nearly as quick or agile. Then you have KD who is a little more fluid athlete but he's freaking KD, I don't think it's ever smart to say we'll an all time great did it so so can this prospect. So his weight/athleticism I'd a legit question.

I prefer Ingram because of where the game has gone, you want guys that can shoot and score from the perimeter and can defend. Simmons two biggest question marks are his shooting and defensive potential, two things I don't want red flags in. But I can definitely see why a person or team would choose Simmons

[Mik317]

KD is a borderline freak athlete. Lets relax with that comp

[BNelley24]

If we draft Ingram will we be he first team in NBA history to take Bluedevils #1 overall back to back years?

[PhilasFinest]

If we draft Ingram will we be he first team in NBA history to take Bluedevils #1 overall back to back years?

No because we did not take a duke player #1 last year.

[BNelley24]

If we draft Ingram will we be he first team in NBA history to take Bluedevils #1 overall back to back years?

No because we did not take a duke player #1 last year.

I meant 1st round pick obviously...

[PhilasFinest]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/733291985608531968[/tweet]

[CoreyGallagher]

If we draft Ingram will we be he first team in NBA history to take Bluedevils #1 overall back to back years?

No because we did not take a duke player #1 last year.

I meant 1st round pick obviously...

I doubt it, perhaps within the top 3 or 5 or something? Idk.