Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[FreakMaster]

Was Nerlens Noel a #1 draft pick? Didn't he attend KU?

Lol, my brain. He did attend Kentucky, why does that matter? I was referring to #1 ranked prospects in college when I typed that, my mistake.

Whether prospect or actual #1 pick Noel played in March madness which was my original question.

LSU is a basketball pwrhse in the NCAA.

They weren't this season.

They weren't due to Simmons inability to lead his team this season. A num 1 draft pick leads a team. He isn't a role player on one.

They are not the fluke school to use as an excuse for Simmons not leading them into the tournament. The more I read about his poor choice in schools to play basketball I recall other NBA players who played on the same campus that Simmons has.

Shaq
Big Baby Davis
Tyrus Thomas
Stromile Swift
Ricky Blanton
Anthony Randolph
Chris Jackson
Brandon Bass
Pistol Pete
and others

The only reason I know this is because I grad from LSU yrs ago.

Past isn't relevant to this season.

Looking at this season LSU sucked, but every NCAA school goes through up and down yrs. Simmons was a major part of LSU's down season. He's a stat man, not a winner.

Last season my Chicago Bulls drafted Bobby Portis with the 22nd pick. He was the SEC POY over Karl Anthony Towns and he played for Arkansas. That Arkansas team wasn't as talented as Simmons LSU Tigers team was, yet he was still able to lead them to the tournament. If a number 1 pick can't dominate the game in college 3 mts ago, what makes you think he's going to dominate in the pros 6 mts from now?

KAT played 21.1 mpg.

Yes, but my point is he led his team to the tournament. Simmons led his team to a 19 -14 record. Including loses to Arkansas by 20 pts, and Texas A & M 71 to 38, and some unknown school in Charleston by 12 pts. Go Ben Simmons go!

[eagereyez]

He's a 6'10 power forward. There is much less need for him to add a jumper to his game, although obviously it would help.

Simmons is big, but that does not mean he can dominate without an effective jumper. There are guys who live in the post who are criticized for having limited shooting range. And Simmons won't be living in the lane. To be a star, he will be be operating as a point forward working from the perimeter. And there are no recent NBA superstars who opperate from the perimeter and can't shoot either from 3pt or at least deep midrange. Simmons has a nice R handed push shot in the lane. But that alone will not be enough in the pros. He won't have a shot chart that looks like this at the NBA level:




Even if Simmons is as good as Lebron at getting into the paint... even Lebron takes a ton of shots outside the paint:
A bit dated...
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/837/lebron-james/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/shooting/2016/

His rookie shot chart for comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/shooting/2004/

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine Simmons developing a mid-range game that is at least somewhat similar. And again, it's less important for him since he'll be playing PF. A more honest comparison would be to compare his shot chart to other PF's. Just because he's on the perimeter doesn't mean the guys from 1-3 will be setting up in the post. They will still be taking the majority of their shots from the perimeter.

Imagine that you had a center who had the handles and passing ability of a PG, and could lead fast breaks with the best of them. Would you be upset if that center couldn't make 3's as well? Of course not. He is causing a huge mismatch by virtue of being a ball handling center. That is the appeal of Simmons. He is not a PG or SG playing on the perimeter, he is a PF. That alone is a match-up nightmare for any team. He'd be the best prospect since LeBron if he had a reliable jumper.

[phiphan]

Griffin is an interesting comp and a fairly unique player in that he is at times a ball handler and at other times an elite finisher.

Griffin works great with CP3, but I'm not sure you would look to pair Simmons with a floor general type PG.

Well my thinking was challenging this idea:

And there are no recent NBA superstars who opperate from the perimeter and can't shoot either from 3pt or at least deep midrange.

Griffin tends to initiate from the perimeter and compares to Simmons as far as shooting. Griffin may not be a "superstar," but he's effective.

[CoreyGallagher]

Whether prospect or actual #1 pick Noel played in March madness which was my original question.

He didn't experience it, Kentucky went 4-5 after he got injured and missed the NCAA tournament that season.

They weren't due to Simmons inability to lead his team this season. A num 1 draft pick leads a team. He isn't a role player on one.

Looking at this season LSU sucked, but every NCAA school goes through up and down yrs. Simmons was a major part of LSU's down season. He's a stat man, not a winner.

Idk, I view his win share and how productive he was for that team and how unproductive and inefficient other players were and I'm not sure how you can put all the blame on him. Some blame, OK, but Craig Victor had the second highest usage for LSU this season, lol. (22.8 to Simmons 26.4)

Yes, but my point is he lead his team to the tournament. Simmons lead his team to a 19 -14 record. Including loses to Arkansas by 20 pts, and Texas A & M 71 to 38, and some unknown school in Charleston by 12 pts. Go Ben Simmons go!

I edited my post to expand reply, I'll quote it.

Maybe the LSU team was better than Arkansas, idk, but Portis only accounted for 24.8% of team's WS, contrast that to the bit I cited above. It's inexact, obviously, but it gives you an idea of how much productivity and responsibility that player had for their respective teams.

[sixers23]

if ingram was on LSU they wouldnt of made the tournament either

[Negrodamus]

if ingram was on LSU they wouldnt of made the tournament either

Speculation. And it's "wouldn't have".

[FreakMaster]

If Sixers Nation wants to know what a #1 draft pick looks like they should look no further than their last #1 draft pick and how he performed @ Georgetown.

They should look @ previous #1 draft picks and analyze their impact on their college teams. Not making it to the NCAA tournament and being not being one of the top 64 schools in the nation should be a red flag when analyzing his potential as a pro.

[phiphan]

Why do we keep feeding this troll ^^

[Unbreakable99]

If Sixers Nation wants to know what a #1 draft pick looks like they should look no further than their last #1 draft pick and how he performed @ Georgetown.

They should look @ previous #1 draft picks and analyze their impact on their college teams. Not making it to the NCAA tournament and being not being one of the top 64 schools in the nation should be a red flag when analyzing his potential as a pro.

This is so silly. Again Steph Curry didn't make the tournament his last year. He's now a 2 time MVP.

[FreakMaster]

if ingram was on LSU they wouldnt of made the tournament either

That remains to be seen, but if Buddy Hield, or Kris Dunn was on that LSU team the Tigers would've been a top 20 school and in the tournament.

[phiphan]

if ingram was on LSU they wouldnt of made the tournament either

That remains to be seen, but if Buddy Hield, or Kris Dunn was on that LSU team the Tigers would've been a top 20 school and in the tournament.

Stellar logic, champ

[FreakMaster]

If Sixers Nation wants to know what a #1 draft pick looks like they should look no further than their last #1 draft pick and how he performed @ Georgetown.

They should look @ previous #1 draft picks and analyze their impact on their college teams. Not making it to the NCAA tournament and being not being one of the top 64 schools in the nation should be a red flag when analyzing his potential as a pro.

This is so silly. Again Steph Curry didn't make the tournament his last year. He's now a 2 time MVP.

Yes, but Steph Curry led his team to the elite eight the yr before, and Davidson college is a relatively unknown school in basketball circles and one who doesn't recruit blue chip players. LSU recruited 2 last yr.

[76ciology]

Apparently they think Ingram can play SG, as per Chad Ford's ESPN GYM Workout article. Haven't read the entire thing. Although, I heard Murray had an insane workout.

[Unbreakable99]

If Sixers Nation wants to know what a #1 draft pick looks like they should look no further than their last #1 draft pick and how he performed @ Georgetown.

They should look @ previous #1 draft picks and analyze their impact on their college teams. Not making it to the NCAA tournament and being not being one of the top 64 schools in the nation should be a red flag when analyzing his potential as a pro.

This is so silly. Again Steph Curry didn't make the tournament his last year. He's now a 2 time MVP.

Yes, but Steph Curry led his team to the elite eight the yr before, and Davidson college is a relatively unknown school in basketball circles and one who doesn't recruit blue chip players. LSU recruited 2 last yr.

So Steph can make the tournament his freshman and sophomore seasons but not his juniors season? Hmmm. I don't like him. He sounds overrated to me. I don't think he will be that good in the NBA.

[phiphan]

Apparently they think Ingram can play SG, as per Chad Ford's ESPN GYM Workout article. Haven't read the entire thing. Although, I heard Murray had an insane workout.

Sixers think that?

[76ciology]

He's a 6'10 power forward. There is much less need for him to add a jumper to his game, although obviously it would help.

Simmons is big, but that does not mean he can dominate without an effective jumper. There are guys who live in the post who are criticized for having limited shooting range. And Simmons won't be living in the lane. To be a star, he will be be operating as a point forward working from the perimeter. And there are no recent NBA superstars who opperate from the perimeter and can't shoot either from 3pt or at least deep midrange. Simmons has a nice R handed push shot in the lane. But that alone will not be enough in the pros. He won't have a shot chart that looks like this at the NBA level:




Even if Simmons is as good as Lebron at getting into the paint... even Lebron takes a ton of shots outside the paint:
A bit dated...
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/837/lebron-james/

+1

Actually Simmons' shotchart is similar to Jahlil.

[76ciology]

Apparently they think Ingram can play SG, as per Chad Ford's ESPN GYM Workout article. Haven't read the entire thing. Although, I heard Murray had an insane workout.

Sixers think that?

Some other team executive.

[sixers23]

if ingram was on LSU they wouldnt of made the tournament either

That remains to be seen, but if Buddy Hield, or Kris Dunn was on that LSU team the Tigers would've been a top 20 school and in the tournament.

Then why wasn't providence a top 20 school? They had much more talent than lsu. Do you even watch college basketball? Look up Heild as a freshman

[76ciology]

Griffin is an interesting comp and a fairly unique player in that he is at times a ball handler and at other times an elite finisher.

Griffin works great with CP3, but I'm not sure you would look to pair Simmons with a floor general type PG.

I think Simmons is better off as a secondary ball handler because of his limitations on offense (jumper). Griffin as a player is not just a good comparison but Griffin's role also seems like a good fit for Simmons. 20-10-5 isn't out of the question for Simmons IMO. It's a similar role he had with LSU, primary ball handler on the break. Roll man and post player on halfcourt.

[FreakMaster]

This is so silly. Again Steph Curry didn't make the tournament his last year. He's now a 2 time MVP.

Yes, but Steph Curry led his team to the elite eight the yr before, and Davidson college is a relatively unknown school in basketball circles and one who doesn't recruit blue chip players. LSU recruited 2 last yr.

So Steph can make the tournament his freshman and sophomore seasons but not his juniors season? Hmmm. I don't like him. He sounds overrated to me. I don't think he will be that good in the NBA.

I think the hype on Simmons has overruled logic. He may turn out to be a good pro. He has the height, ball handling ability and he can see the floor well. However, a number one draft pick is often the face of the franchise, and is expected to contribute right away.