The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[letsgosuns]

This is the offer I would give for Butler: 4th pick, 28th pick, and Knight. I would consider adding Goodwin or maybe the rights to Bogdanovich. I absolutely would not give up Len or Warren. The reason why is because the Suns are nowhere near a contender. They are not even close. If they give up a massive package for Butler (who is not Lebron or Durant), they will have nothing left and the team will still suck. And you cannot bank on the Suns being able to sign better free agents just because of Butler's presence on the roster.

Then think about this. Knight averages 20 ppg, 5 ast, and 4 rbs. He shoots 42% fg and 34% 3 pts. Butler averages 21 ppg, 5 ast, and 5 rbs. He shoots 45% fg and 31% 3 pts. Their per game stats are nearly identical. Knight is also over two years younger. So the Suns are giving the Bulls an immediate replacement for Butler. Most other teams cannot do that. So they get their replacement for Butler who is 24 and the fourth pick in the draft, plus another first round pick.

Now the package can be flexible such as if they do not want the 28th pick, maybe you offer the 2018 top-7 protected Miami pick or something. However, I do not offer them some kind of insane package like picks 4 and 13, Knight, Len, and Goodwin or Warren. That is nuts.

You forgot to add in that Knight is a defensive juggernaut just like Butler and a 2X All-star like Butler.......

Look, Knight averaged what he did as a PG (aka ball in his hands whenever he wanted it) on a horrible team (4th worst). Butler did it as a 3rd option BEHIND Rose and Gasol. Look at the usage ratings. Knight was our top guy and Butler was below both Rose and Gasol. He also did it on a Bulls team that BARELY missed the playoffs. So Calling Knight a "immediate replacement" is laughable.

Now i agree with you on not offering #4/#13/Knight/Len/Goodwin or Warren, but if the #13 pick was removed and we kept Warren, i would take it.

As for being nowhere near a contender, it all has to start somewhere. Having Bledsoe/Booker/Butler all locked in for the next 4 years is a damn good start to being a contender. Trading a unknown player (#4), a spare PG (Knight) and a young big with potential that he has yet to realize (Len) for a young 2X All-star and 2X All NBA Defensive Team member is a no brainer for me.

I would probably do 4, 28, Knight, and Warren if he is the deal breaker but I am extremely hesitant to give up Len. He is only 22. The thought of him becoming an all star center one day and doing it on another team would be horrible for the Suns. Every team in the league wants a young 7 foot big man and the Suns already have it. With the lack of quality centers in the league, Len would probably get a max contract from a team if he was a free agent this offseason. The Suns control him for at least the next five years too since he will be a restricted free agent. It is just too much to give up.

[Kerrsed]

A max contract for Len? Seriously? He has yet to show me anything that would lead me to believe he is worthy of a max contract. He did have a decent stretch of 6 or 7 games last season that showed some hope, but he is very inconstant.

[letsgosuns]

A max contract for Len? Seriously? He has yet to show me anything that would lead me to believe he is worthy of a max contract. He did have a decent stretch of 6 or 7 games last season that showed some hope, but he is very inconstant.

It is the reality of the NBA. Look at how much money the Suns gave Chandler or how much money the Knicks gave Lopez. Kanter was offered a max contract by the Blazers and the Thunder matched it and he does not even start. He is their backup center. The Blazers offered Hibbert a max contract in 2012 and the Pacers matched it. Len has shown more offensive potential than most centers in the league. He is 7'1" and only 22 years old. Is he worthy of a max contract right now? No even close. But the history of big man contracts leads me to believe he would absolutely get a max offer by some team.

[Qwigglez]

I'd be willing to give Len a contract worth about 12-14mil per season. It's ludicrous to think every player coming off their rookie deal deserves this new ultra max deal coming into play.

[jcsunsfan]

I'd be willing to give Len a contract worth about 12-14mil per season. It's ludicrous to think every player coming off their rookie deal deserves this new ultra max deal coming into play.

If you are going to have a center, you are going to have to pay him. Its just reality. If the Suns don't pay it to Len, they will have to pay it to some other center of similar or even less ability. All you have to do is look at the contracts of Kanter, Asik and others.

[jredsaz]

I'd be willing to give Len a contract worth about 12-14mil per season. It's ludicrous to think every player coming off their rookie deal deserves this new ultra max deal coming into play.

Len's contract is going to be determined by a different team. Unfortunately, there will be plenty of teams with plenty of extra money and cap space to significantly overpay him.

[thamadkant]

I like Len and have hopes for him, but 10+ million a year is ridiculous.

I would offer that to Steve Adams, the guy knows his forte... hustle, rebounds, blocks and defense...


Len has been victimized by see-saw type of development.... is he meant to be a back to the rim guy?... a defender?.... we all know he is a good rebounder... but he doesnt have a specialty... and being surrounded by scoring guards and a system catered for guards... his offense has been stagnant..

I always imagine how he would of developed had Tim Duncan mentored him in the Spurs system.

[Cactus Jack]

I like Len and have hopes for him, but 10+ million a year is ridiculous.

I would offer that to Steve Adams, the guy knows his forte... hustle, rebounds, blocks and defense...


Len has been victimized by see-saw type of development.... is he meant to be a back to the rim guy?... a defender?.... we all know he is a good rebounder... but he doesnt have a specialty... and being surrounded by scoring guards and a system catered for guards... his offense has been stagnant..

I always imagine how he would of developed had Tim Duncan mentored him in the Spurs system.

With the way Adam's has played, he will get max offers.

[thamadkant]

I like Len and have hopes for him, but 10+ million a year is ridiculous.

I would offer that to Steve Adams, the guy knows his forte... hustle, rebounds, blocks and defense...


Len has been victimized by see-saw type of development.... is he meant to be a back to the rim guy?... a defender?.... we all know he is a good rebounder... but he doesnt have a specialty... and being surrounded by scoring guards and a system catered for guards... his offense has been stagnant..

I always imagine how he would of developed had Tim Duncan mentored him in the Spurs system.

With the way Adam's has played, he will get max offers.

And I would be inclined to give it to him, you know he will fight hard tooth and nail for a rebound or a position inside the paint... energy is amazing.

[letsgosuns]

In reality, Len is probably a 5-8 million dollar a year player. But as we all know, big men are drastically overpaid in the NBA. With virtually every team desperate for a center that can produce, there is always at least one team out there willing to max out a player like Len just to take the chance he turns into an all star.

[saintEscaton]

Len would be lucky to turn into Jonas Valenciunas Lite. Right now he is basically a rich man's Jake Tsakalidis

[saintEscaton]

Agreed. Also, Okafor is a scoring C only. He's basically Brook Lopez (different, but you know what I mean) and we've seen what happens when that player is the best player on your team. Your big man has to be able to defend these days or he's almost pointless. I don't give up #4 for him let alone all that other stuff.

Wait a sec.


I too thought Okafor and Lopez are identical.. But a healthy Lopez is a border line star... 20 points 8 rebounds and 2 blocks is GREAT to have.


But Okafor can also become Cousins v2.0

Cousins defense is acceptable because he crashes the boards and his ability to put big men in foul trouble is huge.




And I dont see anything wrong with having a player like Brook Lopez... When the guy is healthy he is a beast.


Nets have never surrounded him correctly. Spurs for instance would kill for someone like him to help draw the defense inside to free up shooters against the warriors and thunder.



There is always room for a big man who will score 20 points inside if fed the ball.

Okafor is probably most like Al Jefferson.

A lazy comparison that needs to be put to rest. Jah's ablity to get to the line and recognizing help/ pass out of the double team puts him on another level, he realistically can be a effecient high volume post up scorer, when he had Ish setting him up he was posting a TS% around 60. He doesn't have Al's jumper but doesn't shy away from contact, has more finesse/counter moves and a longer wingspan. Also he is an poor team defender hedging the screener/switching on the PnR due to his slow feet but he is actually good bodying up bigs in the paint one on one. He doesn't get many blocks but alters shots and held opponents to an eFG% at the rim lower than their season average. I would be all in for him, Len can kick rocks for all I care

[DirtyDez]

I like Len and have hopes for him, but 10+ million a year is ridiculous.

I would offer that to Steve Adams, the guy knows his forte... hustle, rebounds, blocks and defense...


Len has been victimized by see-saw type of development.... is he meant to be a back to the rim guy?... a defender?.... we all know he is a good rebounder... but he doesnt have a specialty... and being surrounded by scoring guards and a system catered for guards... his offense has been stagnant..

I always imagine how he would of developed had Tim Duncan mentored him in the Spurs system.

With the way Adam's has played, he will get max offers.

And I would be inclined to give it to him, you know he will fight hard tooth and nail for a rebound or a position inside the paint... energy is amazing.

Can't tell if you two are being serious.

[saintEscaton]

With the way Adam's has played, he will get max offers.

And I would be inclined to give it to him, you know he will fight hard tooth and nail for a rebound or a position inside the paint... energy is amazing.

Can't tell if you two are being serious.

Adams is definitely a max caliber center. He is a superb enforcer, the Thunder had the best DRtg with him in the lineup outscoring opponents by 17.8 points per 100 possessions . He posted a 61.3% field goal percentage even though 72.1 percent of his shots coming from inside three feet, he is a unstoppable finisher in the restricted area.

[bwgood77]

A little premature to talk about what/if we should pay Len and what he will be worth. He still has a season left on his rookie deal. He showed some great ability to rebound and has shown a great ability to get assists as well. At times he was money from the ft line area...for some reason he was terrible shooting for the last few months, but our whole team was in turmoil. There is nothing definitive about what we should do with Len right now other than see what he does as the season starts and take it from there.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Centers are sometimes hard to judge off stats.

Adams is 11 and 9 per 36, which is below Miles Plumlee or Alex Len for example.

But the likes of Noah, Chandler, Hibbert had massive impacts in recent years with similar numbers.

[Cactus Jack]

With the way Adam's has played, he will get max offers.

And I would be inclined to give it to him, you know he will fight hard tooth and nail for a rebound or a position inside the paint... energy is amazing.

Can't tell if you two are being serious.

Adams will definitely get the max. Kanter did. Why wouldn't he?

[DirtyDez]

And I would be inclined to give it to him, you know he will fight hard tooth and nail for a rebound or a position inside the paint... energy is amazing.

Can't tell if you two are being serious.

Adams is definitely a max caliber center. He is a superb enforcer, the Thunder had the best DRtg with him in the lineup outscoring opponents by 17.8 points per 100 possessions . He posted a 61.3% field goal percentage even though 72.1 percent of his shots coming from inside three feet, he is a unstoppable finisher in the restricted area.

Im not hating on the guy's impact but the hype is getting OOC. His max contract would be over 100 million if he were to hit the market as a FA. This guy has gone from Charles Oakley to David Robinson in the span of 25 or so games it seems.

[bwgood77]

Can't tell if you two are being serious.

Adams is definitely a max caliber center. He is a superb enforcer, the Thunder had the best DRtg with him in the lineup outscoring opponents by 17.8 points per 100 possessions . He posted a 61.3% field goal percentage even though 72.1 percent of his shots coming from inside three feet, he is a unstoppable finisher in the restricted area.

Im not hating on the guy's impact but the hype is getting OOC. His max contract would be over 100 million if he were to hit the market as a FA. This guy has gone from Charles Oakley to David Robinson in the span of 25 or so games it seems.

LOL, I wouldn't even compare him to Charles Oakley quite yet. He's been great. More important to this team right now than Harden would have been imo. But yes, it's funny how things get OOC after a few great performances.

[bondom34]

FWIW, he's 8th last I checked in RPM among Cs, and was top 5 in single year DRAPM. He's got a real shot to be what Chandler was in his prime at least, possibly better offensively. He's worth more than whatever Ibaka gets.