Standing Reach -- Shoes or No Shoes?

[Luigi]

When the NBA combine does standing reach measurements, do they allow shoes or not? They measure barefoot height, and in-shoes height. Some players wear high heels to the measurement. But I can't tell if they allow shoes in the standing reach.

This is why I ask:
Ideally, you'd have players do snow angels and picture the plane of coverage. But it's a puzzle to get to that from wingspan, height, and standing reach. For example, having a long neck helps the height measurement. That helps you see over defenses, and tells us where your shoulder bulks sits (interesting for rebounding). And players with very broad shoulders may have long wingspans that don't reach as high as players with narrow shoulders. The differences are subtle, but I'm still interested.

Take this case:

Player - Barefoot - Wingspan - Reach
Carlos Boozer - 6' 7.75" - 7' 2.25" - 9' 0.5"
Brent Wright - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.5" - 8' 9.5"

Boozer has a .75" better wingspan. So each arm is .37" longer. But he has a full 3" advantage in the reach. That's a big difference for otherwise similarly measured players. Is that all from narrow shoulders?

Wright had no in shoes measurements for height. Boozer had some bigs ones (added 1.75").

Jeff Green - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.25 - 8' 7"

Green is down 1" on Boozer's reach. .5" for each arm. But he's 5.5" down on his reach.

All this makes me wonder if Boozer got to wear shoes in the reach while others may not have And this year's discrepancies added to my suspicion. Draft Express got this memo from the NBA office:

"Please note that there were variances with the standing reach measurements for several players in comparison to prior recorded measurements. As a result, the unofficial anthropometric measurements and strength and agility testing results (currently available on nba.com) are under review. The official measurements and testing results will be released as soon as the internal review is complete.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Combine-Measurements-Under-Review-5499

So, does anyone know how they handle shoes in the standing reach?

[amcfad27]

No shoes or standardized shoes. The height measurements directly affect draft stock and $$$. Why leave that to any chance or inaccuracies. Player's Union should make this an issue no joke

[Luigi]

No shoes or standardized shoes. The height measurements directly affect draft stock and $$$. Why leave that to any chance or inaccuracies. Player's Union should make this an issue no joke

Yes, I would like that. But how do they do it right now?

[JayMKE]

just do both, barefoot to know how much the person is cheating and in shoes to see what they'd actually be on the court.

[Dominator83]

I say if it isn't already, it needs to be no shoes for all measurements. That way there's no gray area

[SelfishPlayer]

Over the years I developed a method of valuing different positions and styles of play by their physical measurements. The extreme variation in measurements for prospects this year has made me put that off. It has taken much of the fun out of it for me.

[miltk]

STEPHEN ZIMMERMAN DOES NOT APPROVE THIS THREAD!!!!

[ChuckChilly]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

[Hindenburg]

Lol only took 7 posts for the "players do not play barefeet" argument to show up

Should we measure hockey players height with skates on and football players weight with all their gear on as well?

[miltk]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

like this?

[Scase]

STEPHEN ZIMMERMAN DOES NOT APPROVE THIS THREAD!!!!

The fck is wrong with that boy.....

[EddieJonesFan]

I believe they're measured in their shoes since they do the vertical testing with shoes on.

[_jin]

Unless the shoes' height is standardized, it should be barefoot.

[tiderulz]

I say if it isn't already, it needs to be no shoes for all measurements. That way there's no gray area

until they start playing barefoot, the measurements should be in shoes. but there should be a maximum heal allowed. you cant allow someone use shoes that add say 2" to their height.i would say 1-1.5" at most

[tiderulz]

Lol only took 7 posts for the "players do not play barefeet" argument to show up

Should we measure hockey players height with skates on and football players weight with all their gear on as well?

for some sports, height doesnt matter as much. Hockey, baseball, those are ones that some of the best players are sub 6'. but basketball is all about height and reach.

[tekkon]

In a study you should eliminate the most variables as possible.

Should be barefoot. Too much shoe-fudging by players in the past to include shoes in the measurement.

If you really want the players to wear shoes, make it a standard shoe for everybody that they can wear while taking measurements. No maximum heel or stuff like that, just one standard shoe in all sizes so that it is equal.

[Dominator83]

Lol only took 7 posts for the "players do not play barefeet" argument to show up

Should we measure hockey players height with skates on and football players weight with all their gear on as well?

for some sports, height doesnt matter as much. Hockey, baseball, those are ones that some of the best players are sub 6'. but basketball is all about height and reach.

Hence why when they're taking measurements, drafting teams should know their TRUE height. If they wanna wear shoes that make them taller afterwards, more power to them. But if i'm a GM and I have a draft pick to make, I want to know how tall a prospect really is with no tricks

[og15]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

I'm pretty sure that's irrespective of the point. What one would be trying to avoid is a player doing something like having shoes that make them taller just for the sake of registering a taller height. The point isn't about whether you play in shoes or not, no one's height is measured in shoes in "real life", it is about standardization. Barefoot standardizes everyone. If you have special shoes that give you an extra inch compared to everyone else's shoes, good for you, but that's not your height, especially if you're not always going to play with those shoes.

A players choice of shoes changes so much in their career that there's no logic in measuring someone in the shoes they wore on the day of the combine without having the baseline of their measurements without shoes. Now, I'm assuming the reason standing reach is done with shoes is because they do the vertical test with shoes. What they could do is measure standing reach with and without shoes, then use the one with shoes for the vertical calculation.

[tiderulz]

Lol only took 7 posts for the "players do not play barefeet" argument to show up

Should we measure hockey players height with skates on and football players weight with all their gear on as well?

for some sports, height doesnt matter as much. Hockey, baseball, those are ones that some of the best players are sub 6'. but basketball is all about height and reach.

Hence why when they're taking measurements, drafting teams should know their TRUE height. If they wanna wear shoes that make them taller afterwards, more power to them. But if i'm a GM and I have a draft pick to make, I want to know how tall a prospect really is with no tricks

and they measure them without shoes at the combine. but they will always be taller because they play with shoes

[Wizenheimer]

just do both, barefoot to know how much the person is cheating and in shoes to see what they'd actually be on the court.

if a player is just standing and reaching up vertically, it's probably only worthwhile for C's and some PF's. It's pretty much a useless number for perimeter players. For them, wingspan is more useful, although that may be true for bigs as well