Portland - 2016 Offseason

[Soulyss]

The Bismack havin a great game rebounding and blocking shots tonight, I was looking as his playoff box scores and he is either a no show or seems to have a really good game, not much consistency

He's young, only 23 and was raw to the game when he came into the league. I've always wanted to get a hold of him, but I'm thinking that Toronto matches pretty much anything he will get offered this summer.

With Valanciunas starting and needing to resign Derozen? If someone throws 12-13 million a year at Bismack I have a hard time believing they will pay that for their backup 20/min a game center. If they do I would be trying like hell to pluck Valanciunas away from the Raptors.

[zzaj]

Mentioned in the other thread, but its offseason stuff here so I'll say it again anyway. I wonder if the Bucks would like some cap relief given they have just paid Middleton and have even bigger contracts on the horizon in Giannis and Jabari. Plumlee (cheap) Pat and Cle's 1st rounder for Monroe would give them cap relief in a big way and even some decent pieces to have. They had a miserable year and Giannis and Parker are not fitting with Monroe who needs spacing on the court to be effective in a positive way.

Meanwhile we have spacing for days and desperately need a big who can score and be a threat out of screens to alleviate pressure on our top 2 gaurds. Also gets rid of the problem of having 2 backup centers on 1 team in Plumlee and Davis.We don't lose Plumlees passing either as Monroe had some really good passing seasons under his belt, he can hit the open man out of the PnR trap like Plumlee... and much much much more obviously.

I wouldn't mind adding Monroe, but not at the cost of Plumlee. He'd have to come pretty cheap. I still think that Plumlee has some ceiling. FWIW, if we were to add him I'd want to have a big rotation + drafting Meyers' replacement. Davis is Portland's best position defender and adds a ton with his rebounding. I wouldn't want to lose that for the poor rebounder that is Monroe, either.

Something like:

Monroe
Plumlee
Davis
Hammons

That wouldn't work, Monroe couldn't play with Drummond, I don't see him working with Plumlee/Davis. I think if we bring in a Center we need to let go of either Davis or Plumlee cause both are really just backups centers. I like Ed more cause of his offensive rebounding and he has shown he can be effective coming off the bench, not sure if Plums would.. I doubt we bring in a center and ask either Davis or Plumlee to play 3rd string or play both together, something Stotts has rarely done, for good reason.

Monroe wouldn't play big minutes with either Plumlee or Davis. Davis would be a PF, except for certain matchups. It'd basically be:

Monroe/Plumlee/Hammons
Aminu/Davis/Vonleh

Anyway, my point being...both Plumlee and Davis are no frills, solid pieces that are willing to fit in. I agree that both at this stage would be best as backups. I think Plumlee still has room to grow. Monroe is expensive and has worn out his welcome everywhere he's been and already said no to Portland once. I don't really see a place for him here unless he comes very cheap, which he won't.

I'd much rather sign Aldrich and Leuer on the cheap than "adapt" to fit someone like Monroe.

Trying to continuously make it out of the first round in the West with a "big 3" of Lillard/CJ/Monroe and filler players for the next 5 years? No thanks from me...

[GreenRiddler]

Just listened to the NeO presser, lol. He spilled the beans on Monroe conversation last year. Monroe pretty much said he likes the team and Dame but doesn't see them as a playoff team even with himself...Way to sell your self short moose! Now the Bucks missed the Playoffs with him and we made it without him!

[GreenRiddler]

I wouldn't mind adding Monroe, but not at the cost of Plumlee. He'd have to come pretty cheap. I still think that Plumlee has some ceiling. FWIW, if we were to add him I'd want to have a big rotation + drafting Meyers' replacement. Davis is Portland's best position defender and adds a ton with his rebounding. I wouldn't want to lose that for the poor rebounder that is Monroe, either.

Something like:

Monroe
Plumlee
Davis
Hammons

That wouldn't work, Monroe couldn't play with Drummond, I don't see him working with Plumlee/Davis. I think if we bring in a Center we need to let go of either Davis or Plumlee cause both are really just backups centers. I like Ed more cause of his offensive rebounding and he has shown he can be effective coming off the bench, not sure if Plums would.. I doubt we bring in a center and ask either Davis or Plumlee to play 3rd string or play both together, something Stotts has rarely done, for good reason.

Monroe wouldn't play big minutes with either Plumlee or Davis. Davis would be a PF, except for certain matchups. It'd basically be:

Monroe/Plumlee/Hammons
Aminu/Davis/Vonleh

Anyway, my point being...both Plumlee and Davis are no frills, solid pieces that are willing to fit in. I agree that both at this stage would be best as backups. I think Plumlee still has room to grow. Monroe is expensive and has worn out his welcome everywhere he's been and already said no to Portland once. I don't really see a place for him here unless he comes very cheap, which he won't.

I'd much rather sign Aldrich and Leuer on the cheap than "adapt" to fit someone like Monroe.

Trying to continuously make it out of the first round in the West with a "big 3" of Lillard/CJ/Monroe and filler players for the next 5 years? No thanks from me...

Yeah that is a perspective to take, but you gotta spend money to get that 3rd piece. The Plumlee Ed situation would still stand though, neither would play much with Monroe there but would almost exclusively play with each other in the reserve unit, that would be quite the spacing nightmare, I can see the 2nd qtr droughts already.

Unless that big can play C and PF like maybe Horford I just don't think we will be retaining both Ed and Plumlee tbh. Call it a gut feeling but I think one goes.

[Blazinaway]

The Bismack havin a great game rebounding and blocking shots tonight, I was looking as his playoff box scores and he is either a no show or seems to have a really good game, not much consistency

He's young, only 23 and was raw to the game when he came into the league. I've always wanted to get a hold of him, but I'm thinking that Toronto matches pretty much anything he will get offered this summer.

I believe Bismack can opt out and become a UFA - so he can go wherever he wants if he opts out

[Dame Lizard]

I've always been on the Bismack train. He's exactly what I'd want from our Centre. Defense and rebounding!

[zzaj]

If Biyombo opts out and becomes an UFA he'll get a lot more money than he's probably worth. Some team will overpay him.

That's the big issue with paying for anything other than a lower or lower-middle tier FA this offseason...whomever signs will have to be the 3rd piece moving forward because of Lillard/CJ. Outside of Durant, and maybe Horford and Whiteside (none of which are coming to Portland) it just doesn't make sense to overpay for a cornerstone that isn't REALLY a cornerstone.

Lillard/CJ/Dwight
Lillard/CJ/Monroe
Lillard/CJ/Biyombo
Lillard/CJ/Derozan
Lillard/CJ/Barnes
Lillard/CJ/Batum
Lillard/CJ/Anderson
Lillard/CJ/Deng
Lillard/CJ/Parsons
Lillard/CJ/any other RFA

Probably more than half of those combos have less than a 10% chance of happening, but is anybody really comfortable with one of those Big 3 combos going forward during the "Damian window"? Because after next year that's what it'd be.

I'd much rather Olshey get two players for the price of one in FA. I still think the Leuer/Aldrich/Williams/Bazemore tier are who Olshey will realistically end up with.

[Fitz303]

Biyombo is not the answer. Sure, we need defense. But we also really need someone who we can also throw the ball down into the low post to. Someone who keeps the defense on their toes, and doesn't make it 5 on 4 offensively (i.e. plumelee & Biyombo). If we had a prolific PF, then sure. But we have Aminu. We need Balance at center. This is why Howard or Whiteside are musts. We need someone that the defense can't take their eye off of, who also provides solid defense. If Olsheys recent pursuit of Monroe and Kanter mean anything, it's that Olshey wants an offensive threat out of his big man as well. I just don't see Biyombo as the guy for this team

[Butter]

Overall roles and chemistry are critical in this conversation.

Plumee's pasaing takes a lot of pressure off of Dame. He really absorbed the role Batum filled as the secondary facillatator in Sorts movement offense.

It seems a player like Bismack would be good next Meyers if BB could play PF.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

The Bismack havin a great game rebounding and blocking shots tonight, I was looking as his playoff box scores and he is either a no show or seems to have a really good game, not much consistency

He's young, only 23 and was raw to the game when he came into the league. I've always wanted to get a hold of him, but I'm thinking that Toronto matches pretty much anything he will get offered this summer.

I believe Bismack can opt out and become a UFA - so he can go wherever he wants if he opts out

I knew he was UFA but for some reason I thought the Raptors had bird rights on him and that he would show some loyalty if they could match another offer. However they do not have bird rights and thus will probably be unable to match. So assuming they are going to make an offer to resign DeRozen, it actually looks pretty certain that Biyombo is on a different team next year.

Overall roles and chemistry are critical in this conversation.

Plumee's pasaing takes a lot of pressure off of Dame. He really absorbed the role Batum filled as the secondary facillatator in Sorts movement offense.

It seems a player like Bismack would be good next Meyers if BB could play PF.

I totally agree that Plumlee's passing was critical for this team, but it is not ideal to have your 3rd playmaker also be your center. The center position is too important in terms of team defense (and post offense, though that is getting less and less emphasized each year) to sacrifice defense for ball handling and passing.

One of the reasons I would like to target Evan Turner this year, despite some pretty obvious flaws, is that he could line up with either Lillard or McCollum, or even go small and play SF with both of them on the court. I think a player like that could be essential to getting our back-court to work without sacrificing defense from our front-court.

Of course, adding both Evan Turner and Biyombo to this team would have some pretty big impacts on our spacing. I'm not sure it would be feasible and would almost require us moving Plumlee and keeping Leonard or targeting another floor spacing PF somehow.

[Epicurus]

I don't understand how ball handling and passing from a center negates or sacrifices their defense. Why not a play making center who can make shots and play defense? I don't think Plumlee is that far from this Alvin Adams model of a center. Yes, he has work to do this offseason, but think he just may be committed to doing it.

[Downtown]

But we also really need someone who we can also throw the ball down into the low post to. Someone who keeps the defense on their toes, and doesn't make it 5 on 4 offensively (i.e. plumelee & Biyombo). If we had a prolific PF, then sure.

Just remember that Toronto has Patrick Patterson and Luis Scola as their power forwards playing alongside Biyumbo. I don't see them as any better than who Portland plays there. As a matter of fact there's similarities between their team and ours. They are lead by their backcourt. Their small forward is more a defensive type than a scorer. They don't have a dominant power forward but play it by committee. Center is where I see a difference in styles. And the biggest difference in styles is that coach Dwayne Casey hammers defence first into them every day and rewards those that play it hard for him.

But they also have Corey Joseph as a third guard who is a great player off the bench in the backcourt and even though he's not tall they play him in a two point guard rotation with Lowry during games. And another difference is that because Derozen is tall he can also slip over to small forward at times and have him, Joseph, and Lowry on together so they have three good ball handlers on.

Is Tyreke Evans an option worth exploring as a combo guard in a trade? How about Eric Gordon, although I don't think he plays defence as well as Evans. Another perimeter ball handler, scorer, and defender would be a welcome addition to me. Sorry, off track.

I'm not saying Biyumbo is the only answer for centre but I could see him doing well for Portland. And they could keep Plumlee since both are used to playing around 25 minutes a game and both pick up fouls with their style of play. But then Ed Davis 's situation changes. And yes I could see Leonard fitting alongside Bismack although as everyone else I would hope for someone better.

[Fitz303]

But we also really need someone who we can also throw the ball down into the low post to. Someone who keeps the defense on their toes, and doesn't make it 5 on 4 offensively (i.e. plumelee & Biyombo). If we had a prolific PF, then sure.

Just remember that Toronto has Patrick Patterson and Luis Scola as their power forwards playing alongside Biyumbo. I don't see them as any better than who Portland plays there. As a matter of fact there's similarities between their team and ours. They are lead by their backcourt. Their small forward is more a defensive type than a scorer. They don't have a dominant power forward but play it by committee. Center is where I see a difference in styles. And the biggest difference in styles is that coach Dwayne Casey hammers defence first into them every day and rewards those that play it hard for him.

But they also have Corey Joseph as a third guard who is a great player off the bench in the backcourt and even though he's not tall they play him in a two point guard rotation with Lowry during games. And another difference is that because Derozen is tall he can also slip over to small forward at times and have him, Joseph, and Lowry on together so they have three good ball handlers on.

Is Tyreke Evans an option worth exploring as a combo guard in a trade? How about Eric Gordon, although I don't think he plays defence as well as Evans. Another perimeter ball handler, scorer, and defender would be a welcome addition to me. Sorry, off track.

I'm not saying Biyumbo is the only answer for centre but I could see him doing well for Portland. And they could keep Plumlee since both are used to playing around 25 minutes a game and both pick up fouls with their style of play. But then Ed Davis 's situation changes. And yes I could see Leonard fitting alongside Bismack although as everyone else I would hope for someone better.

That's exactly the issue though. Does anybody think Toronto has any chance at winning a championship? They almost lost in the 1st rd. They're not on the level of the top teams. Portland needs an all star type 2 way player at center or power forward if they want to go to the next level

[Downtown]

I hear what you're saying Fitz but in my mind there's the next level and then there's the "NEXT" level. I see Portland as still trying to get to Toronto's level, which isn't at that series championship level.

Sure, Olshey could sit back and wait for the next great thing to fall into his lap but I think he is still in the moving up the ladder mode, meaning there's still plenty of room for improvement and not just that one more piece that gets them into the Western Conference finals.

Isn't that why we've had the discussion about whether trading McCollum or not was good strategy if they could get as good a player but a better fit in return?

Remember that Toronto was the second best team in the East this season so getting to that level for next season would be am amazing feat. My personal goal for the Blazers is that I want to see them reach the level where they are a top four team in the regular season that get's first round home court advantage. So while they might not reach Golden State, San Antonio status I view reaching the same level as OKC/ Clippers for next season as a major goal.

[Blazers98]

I don't see going after a Monroe or Bismack being the answer. Plumlee is still getting better and is much more reasonable. I can see going after a real upgrade big like Whiteside/Horford. Howard...meh. Also don't like him because he isn't a good fit for our culture.

I know T Jones had a terrible season. He had many many injuries. He is the kind of risk reward guy I think we should go after though.

[Matt800]

It would be interesting if Portland could trade CJ for Ben Simmons (1st or 2nd pick). Last I remember Philly could use a good guard with leadership skills. Although I think Lillard really likes CJ so maybe the off court loss would be too much.

A Lillard/Harkless/Simmons/Aminu/Plumlee lineup would be very long and athletic. And there'd be plenty of money to sign another center or wing player.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I don't understand how ball handling and passing from a center negates or sacrifices their defense. Why not a play making center who can make shots and play defense? I don't think Plumlee is that far from this Alvin Adams model of a center. Yes, he has work to do this offseason, but think he just may be committed to doing it.

Did you really think I meant it causally negates the defense, as in you literally cannot have both? Obviously I would love to have every single player 100% well rounded and elite in every aspect of the game, but that is not reality and in reality you have to prioritize which skills are most important at which position. Plumlee is near elite for a center in terms of his ability to handle and pass, but I would prefer my center to be near elite in terms of rebounding and all-around defense. This is not to say Plumlee is all that bad either, just that his best skillset does not typify what I want my center to be best at.


I think Plumlee would make more sense for a roster like Boston, where they have good defensive players up and down the roster but could use some playmaking to help IT's scoring and Smart/Bradley's defense at the guard positions. Blazers on the other hand have a defensively weak back-court, so we need as elite a defender up front as possible. Overall Biyombo is not as dynamic a player as Plumlee, but he would do a better job covering the back-court.

I also don't believe its an either/or situation with Plumlee/Biyombo - especially because the Warriors have proven that a front-court passer is a very valuable and winning skill to have. In fact, I do think it would be more difficult to have both Davis and Biyombo because of their similar strengths/weaknesses - so the real debate is whether Biyombo is enough of an upgrade over Davis to justify either moving Davis to 3rd string or trading him.

[Wizenheimer]

I don't understand how ball handling and passing from a center negates or sacrifices their defense. Why not a play making center who can make shots and play defense? I don't think Plumlee is that far from this Alvin Adams model of a center. Yes, he has work to do this offseason, but think he just may be committed to doing it.

Did you really think I meant it causally negates the defense, as in you literally cannot have both? Obviously I would love to have every single player 100% well rounded and elite in every aspect of the game, but that is not reality and in reality you have to prioritize which skills are most important at which position. Plumlee is near elite for a center in terms of his ability to handle and pass, but I would prefer my center to be near elite in terms of rebounding and all-around defense. This is not to say Plumlee is all that bad either, just that his best skillset does not typify what I want my center to be best at.


I think Plumlee would make more sense for a roster like Boston, where they have good defensive players up and down the roster but could use some playmaking to help IT's scoring and Smart/Bradley's defense at the guard positions. Blazers on the other hand have a defensively weak back-court, so we need as elite a defender up front as possible. Overall Biyombo is not as dynamic a player as Plumlee, but he would do a better job covering the back-court.

I also don't believe its an either/or situation with Plumlee/Biyombo - especially because the Warriors have proven that a front-court passer is a very valuable and winning skill to have. In fact, I do think it would be more difficult to have both Davis and Biyombo because of their similar strengths/weaknesses - so the real debate is whether Biyombo is enough of an upgrade over Davis to justify either moving Davis to 3rd string or trading him.

I think it's pretty clear what Stotts would do with a Biyombo on the team...play him at C, no matter what he did as a coach for a different team a decade ago. Biyombo would have to replace one of the current C's and that's Plumlee or Davis. Plumlee has that passing ability but he's RFA next summer; that might be a big consideration

whether it's Dwight Howard or Cole Adrich (the C i'd prefer over any but Howard or Whiteside), or Biyombo or Mahinmi, Portland doesn't have enough C minutes to keep all three C's happy.

is Biyombo an upgrade over Davis? Depends I guess. Davis is much better in win shares and win shares/48, box plus minus and value over replacement. That's mainly because Biyombo is a net negative on offense. Biyombo, even though more of a rim protector, doesn't beat Davis in defensive metrics

the guy who crushes them all in those advanced numbers is Aldridch. He's easily the biggest of several lesser C free agents. And even though there are sample size issues, he has some wow defensive numbers. Because of too few minutes his defensive rating of 94 isn't 'eligible', but it's worth noting that Whiteside leads the NBA in def rating at 94.5...worse then Aldrich's number. And DRPM which seems as reliable as any defensive stat shows Aldrich ranking 3rd among C's and 4th among all NBA players

and that sample size issue might work to Portland's advantage if they chose to chase Aldrich. He only averaged 13 minutes because he played behind the rarely injured Deandre Jordan. And it's pretty certain he'll opt out of his 1.2 million salary next season and look for more money in a situation that would give him a lot more minutes. Blazers could offer that. Toronto seems likely to try and keep Biyombo and Portland is a long ways from what Biyombo is used to

[Blazinaway]

I don't understand how ball handling and passing from a center negates or sacrifices their defense. Why not a play making center who can make shots and play defense? I don't think Plumlee is that far from this Alvin Adams model of a center. Yes, he has work to do this offseason, but think he just may be committed to doing it.

Did you really think I meant it causally negates the defense, as in you literally cannot have both? Obviously I would love to have every single player 100% well rounded and elite in every aspect of the game, but that is not reality and in reality you have to prioritize which skills are most important at which position. Plumlee is near elite for a center in terms of his ability to handle and pass, but I would prefer my center to be near elite in terms of rebounding and all-around defense. This is not to say Plumlee is all that bad either, just that his best skillset does not typify what I want my center to be best at.


I think Plumlee would make more sense for a roster like Boston, where they have good defensive players up and down the roster but could use some playmaking to help IT's scoring and Smart/Bradley's defense at the guard positions. Blazers on the other hand have a defensively weak back-court, so we need as elite a defender up front as possible. Overall Biyombo is not as dynamic a player as Plumlee, but he would do a better job covering the back-court.

I also don't believe its an either/or situation with Plumlee/Biyombo - especially because the Warriors have proven that a front-court passer is a very valuable and winning skill to have. In fact, I do think it would be more difficult to have both Davis and Biyombo because of their similar strengths/weaknesses - so the real debate is whether Biyombo is enough of an upgrade over Davis to justify either moving Davis to 3rd string or trading him.

I think it's pretty clear what Stotts would do with a Biyombo on the team...play him at C, no matter what he did as a coach for a different team a decade ago. Biyombo would have to replace one of the current C's and that's Plumlee or Davis. Plumlee has that passing ability but he's RFA next summer; that might be a big consideration

whether it's Dwight Howard or Cole Adrich (the C i'd prefer over any but Howard or Whiteside), or Biyombo or Mahinmi, Portland doesn't have enough C minutes to keep all three C's happy.

is Biyombo an upgrade over Davis? Depends I guess. Davis is much better in win shares and win shares/48, box plus minus and value over replacement. That's mainly because Biyombo is a net negative on offense. Biyombo, even though more of a rim protector, doesn't beat Davis in defensive metrics

the guy who crushes them all in those advanced numbers is Aldridch. He's easily the biggest of several lesser C free agents. And even though there are sample size issues, he has some wow defensive numbers. Because of too few minutes his defensive rating of 94 isn't 'eligible', but it's worth noting that Whiteside leads the NBA in def rating at 94.5...worse then Aldrich's number. And DRPM which seems as reliable as any defensive stat shows Aldrich ranking 3rd among C's and 4th among all NBA players

and that sample size issue might work to Portland's advantage if they chose to chase Aldrich. He only averaged 13 minutes because he played behind the rarely injured Deandre Jordan. And it's pretty certain he'll opt out of his 1.2 million salary next season and look for more money in a situation that would give him a lot more minutes. Blazers could offer that. Toronto seems likely to try and keep Biyombo and Portland is a long ways from what Biyombo is used to

the Aldrich scenario is intriguing but I have hardly ever seen the guy play and whether his numbers would actually hold up with a lot more minutes is the key Q and the risk. However whatever we do will entail "risk".

[Norm2953]

The thing is though Biyumbo coming off his series is likely going to ask for more than
Enes Kantner got in his max deal and if your coach is Terry Stotts, his big man rotation
of Biyumbo, Plumlee and Davis might be the offensively challenged group in the league.

I'm with Blazinaway in being leery of overpaying for a guy who played 13 minutes for the
Clips last season. If the guy was really solid, the Clips when teams were fouling DAJ
would have given him more minutes. He's likely the traditional backup center for I'm
skeptical given minutes he'll be the next Joel Przbilla.