The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

[CelticsPride18]

Barnes its the kind of guy I have no problem overpaying because hes young and he can outperform his contract.

[OFWGKTA]

Whiteside had a snap story of him thanking BIll Russel for sending him an autographed picture, also said thanks for paving the way. Caption read "legendary". Just sayin..

edit:

[Andrew McCeltic]

You have to say "BPA" to keep up the trade value of your players and pick.

Phoenix has a history, funny enough, of cycling through multiple point guards at the same time. When Ainge coached them, they had Kevin Johnson all season, Steve Nash as a bench prospect, and first Sam Cassell, then Jason Kidd.. And it worked with Hornacek's team for a year, before adding IT to Dragic/Bledsoe made everyone miserable.

It can make sense, and your bench unit will play better if it has a starting-caliber point guard, but the IT/Dragic debacle shows how risky it is.

I thought there was an even earlier example, too, but I may have been mixing it up with Mark Price and Kevin Johnson being together in Cleveland before Johnson was traded to the Suns.

I think Cleveland may have had Johnson, Mark Price and Terrell Brandon all at the same time..

[Andrew McCeltic]

Celtics Beat podcast episode w/ guest Jeff Goodman: http://clnsradio.com/celtics-beat/item/13799-celtics-beat-w-jeff-goodman-5-22-16

• Goodman likes Hield for Cs if they keep 3.
• JG sees skill at wing position as area of need, Ingram would've been perfect.
• Doesn't see Ainge taking Bender at 3.
• Dunn, Hield, Murray, Bender, and Brown are the guys Danny should look into for 3rd pick.
• Some high upside bigs like Chriss and Davis that might not be able to contribute right away.
• Suggesting Smart for Noel swap (or some other big man) then draft Dunn with 3rd pick. Will depend on value of Smart in market.

Jeff Goodman sucks, he's always sucked, if Bill Simmons ever does a "reads mean tweets" on HBO, I'm tweeting that, and worse.

Smart for Noel and drafting Dunn I'd probably do. But I remember when Goodman was exclusively a Boston guy, worse than Tanguay and Dickerson because he doesn't just say dumb stuff overconfidently, but thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Sports radio and TV are so inane, they reward stupid people- because if I get riled up by how obnoxiously uninformed Goodman is, I call in, or I remember him, or the show. Stupid and loud and overconfident is good for ratings.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah, he has that vibe at times. I actually think the fact he doesn't know exactly what he's doing is what makes him a good GM. It's not just about what sticks, it's about what opportunities emerge. You don't know which players become available in trades, you don't know what free agents will decide, you don't know who wins the lottery or who's in the draft.

Your talking about flexibility and timing, the latter of which is a mysterious factor that has resulted in many teams good and bad fortunes in the past, present and future. Lots of stars have to line up just right for success to be attained. It's almost a celestial affair. I'll never forget the night the sox won the World Series against St. Louis in 2004, I was living on Mission Hill off of Huntington ave at the time. Game 4, at St Luis, 7th inning, helicoptors out, people started walking out of their apartments to rush Fenway Park to celebrate and, I kid not, there was a Lunar Eclipse over Boston. Talk about the stars Literally lining up.

I was living in Brookline.. Went to the parade, too. Once in a lifetime stuff. And it wasn't beating the Cardinals, that was easy. It was coming back from 3 down against the Yankees.

Knew I liked you. Grew up in Brookline.

[ConstableGeneva]

Celtics Beat podcast episode w/ guest Jeff Goodman: http://clnsradio.com/celtics-beat/item/13799-celtics-beat-w-jeff-goodman-5-22-16

• Goodman likes Hield for Cs if they keep 3.
• JG sees skill at wing position as area of need, Ingram would've been perfect.
• Doesn't see Ainge taking Bender at 3.
• Dunn, Hield, Murray, Bender, and Brown are the guys Danny should look into for 3rd pick.
• Some high upside bigs like Chriss and Davis that might not be able to contribute right away.
• Suggesting Smart for Noel swap (or some other big man) then draft Dunn with 3rd pick. Will depend on value of Smart in market.

Jeff Goodman sucks, he's always sucked, if Bill Simmons ever does a "reads mean tweets" on HBO, I'm tweeting that, and worse.

Smart for Noel and drafting Dunn I'd probably do. But I remember when Goodman was exclusively a Boston guy, worse than Tanguay and Dickerson because he doesn't just say dumb stuff overconfidently, but thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Sports radio and TV are so inane, they reward stupid people- because if I get riled up by how obnoxiously uninformed Goodman is, I call in, or I remember him, or the show. Stupid and loud and overconfident is good for ratings.

That's fine. Just passing along the info that's out there. Up to the members here if they want to dismiss it or not. Had some time to listen and transcribe, so why not? Slow offseason and all.

[Murta]

I listened to it but forgot to transcribe, glad somebody else did it.

Anyhow, everything other than Barnes stuff is pure poop. Especially the Dunn thing. It's ridiculously stupid. Smart would conservatively average like 23 PTS and 10 AST if he stayed in college as long as Dunn did (they're equally old).

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, good point about Dunn's age. But he's got an electric quality to his athleticism and offense that Smart doesn't, and has more versatility and better instincts finishing at the rim.

[Marley2Hendrix]

I don't think Danny Ainge knows exactly what he is doing . He is just making it up as he goes and sees what sticks . If he truly wanted to bring in young players and go the youth route , then he would have gone the tanking route. For example , players like Terry Rozier, Jordan Mickey should have played over established players ,but that didn't happen , so why complain now . Make some big moves or step aside . I'm Tired of every single season we are going to improve the Celtics , and nothing happens . No one in the NBA gets to be the General Manager for life, and neither should he .

We continue to progressively improve each year;
We have a number of talented players locked up at exceptional rates (e.g., Crowder, Thomas, Bradley);
We have the #3 pick in this draft, thereby giving us our choice of the next tier of players (i.e., Murray, Hield; Bender, etc.);
We have excellent cap management at the moment, giving us considerable fluidity in trades, free agency, and roster retention;
We continue to have excellent picks for the future, most notably the 2017 pick swap with Brooklyn.

The sky is not falling, but with OKC defeating San Antonio (and Cleveland finally clicking), those clinging to the dream that we will win a championship next season need to give it up. As Ainge said, it's time to practice patience and continue to look toward constructing a team that has a long window of contending. That time is not quite yet, but it continues to grow closer. The future is looking bright.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Celtics Beat podcast episode w/ guest Jeff Goodman: http://clnsradio.com/celtics-beat/item/13799-celtics-beat-w-jeff-goodman-5-22-16

• Goodman likes Hield for Cs if they keep 3.
• JG sees skill at wing position as area of need, Ingram would've been perfect.
• Doesn't see Ainge taking Bender at 3.
• Dunn, Hield, Murray, Bender, and Brown are the guys Danny should look into for 3rd pick.
• Some high upside bigs like Chriss and Davis that might not be able to contribute right away.
• Suggesting Smart for Noel swap (or some other big man) then draft Dunn with 3rd pick. Will depend on value of Smart in market.

Jeff Goodman sucks, he's always sucked, if Bill Simmons ever does a "reads mean tweets" on HBO, I'm tweeting that, and worse.

Smart for Noel and drafting Dunn I'd probably do. But I remember when Goodman was exclusively a Boston guy, worse than Tanguay and Dickerson because he doesn't just say dumb stuff overconfidently, but thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Sports radio and TV are so inane, they reward stupid people- because if I get riled up by how obnoxiously uninformed Goodman is, I call in, or I remember him, or the show. Stupid and loud and overconfident is good for ratings.

Regarding Goodman, you took the words right out of my mouth but Tanguay is pretty freaking bad too man. It's apples and oranges but they're both garbage

[DarkAzcura]

So I know deals like this are usually completely unrealistic because of the moving pieces involved, but I feel like this summer is a bit different considering how many picks are held by such few teams, especially considering there are front office ties between Philly, Boston, and PHX. So this is my one crazy idea, and it depends on a lot of things working out just right..also if you aren't a fan of Murray this probably isn't that appealing to some!

I'd like to see Boston trade 3 + 23 for 4 + 13 to Phoenix. This is completely dependent on how much they love Bender. We pick up Murray at 4. Hope Valentine drops to 13 and pick him up as the Turner replacement. Let Turner walk.

This creates a massive backlog at the guard position like we kind of already have. This is where I'd like to see a crazy three way deal and where this may get unrealistic, heh. This is completely dependent on just how badly Philly wants either Dunn or Hield.

Boston trades Bradley and 16 to NOP, Boston receives number 6 pick and drafts Dunn or Hield depending on who Minny chooses. NOP does this because they are typically shortsighted and are almost always trying to make win now moves in the hope Davis doesn't walk. Bradley provides defense to their backcourt that is almost non-existent right now between dudes like Evans and Gordon.
Philly trades Noel to Boston and receives Dunn.

Obviously there would be some more pieces to match salary and maybe sweeten the pot a bit in some areas, but these are the main pieces.

Yeah typically (and probably still) this kind of stuff is completely unrealistic, but considering how many picks are concentrated between only a handful of teams, there should theoretically be more movement than usual at draft night or the summer.

Our roster is in massive need of rebalancing, and I feel like this accomplishes that pretty well. We need more scoring in the backcourt and more defense in the front court. This accomplishes that. I love AB, but I think Murray has a shot at being a 20/5/5 guy in this league and a top 5 shooter. We have Smart and Rozier to pick up the slack in the defensive side of things. If you don't think Murray has a shot at being a 20 PPG guy then I can understand why some may think this is crazy, but I would like to see something like this.

Barring crazy blockbusters for guys like Cousins, Butler, and George, I would prefer this 10x over trading the third pick for Okafor or drafting the unknown in Bender.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Murray
Crowder/Valentine
Olynyk
Noel

I can roll with that rotation. On paper way better shooting and finally a consistent PNR big for IT who can play D and rebound.

I guess the biggest question is..would NOP actually trade their 6th pick for Bradley and 16? Maybe 13 would be more enticing (likely no shot at Valentine then)? I think they are looking to make win now moves and would be willing to slide back in the draft 7-10 spots to pick up an all defensive guard who can shoot the 3.

Does Philly want Dunn or Hield (guard help) so badly that they trade Noel to get that help? Or would 13 be necessary here to sweeten the pot?

The general point is that with so many assets consolidated to 5-7 teams, some crazy things can happen..who knows if it does! I hope it does!

[BfB]

I don't think Danny Ainge knows exactly what he is doing . He is just making it up as he goes and sees what sticks . If he truly wanted to bring in young players and go the youth route , then he would have gone the tanking route. For example , players like Terry Rozier, Jordan Mickey should have played over established players ,but that didn't happen , so why complain now . Make some big moves or step aside . I'm Tired of every single season we are going to improve the Celtics , and nothing happens . No one in the NBA gets to be the General Manager for life, and neither should he .

We continue to progressively improve each year;
We have a number of talented players locked up at exceptional rates (e.g., Crowder, Thomas, Bradley);
We have the #3 pick in this draft, thereby giving us our choice of the next tier of players (i.e., Murray, Hield; Bender, etc.);
We have excellent cap management at the moment, giving us considerable fluidity in trades, free agency, and roster retention;
We continue to have excellent picks for the future, most notably the 2017 pick swap with Brooklyn.

The sky is not falling, but with OKC defeating San Antonio (and Cleveland finally clicking), those clinging to the dream that we will win a championship next season need to give it up. As Ainge said, it's time to practice patience and continue to look toward constructing a team that has a long window of contending. That time is not quite yet, but it continues to grow closer. The future is looking bright.

Would not be shocked to see the team grab Ibaka this summer, however. OKC isn't going to sign both Adams and Ibaka to max deals. Love me some Serge.

[sully00]

I don't think Danny Ainge knows exactly what he is doing . He is just making it up as he goes and sees what sticks . If he truly wanted to bring in young players and go the youth route , then he would have gone the tanking route. For example , players like Terry Rozier, Jordan Mickey should have played over established players ,but that didn't happen , so why complain now . Make some big moves or step aside . I'm Tired of every single season we are going to improve the Celtics , and nothing happens . No one in the NBA gets to be the General Manager for life, and neither should he .

We continue to progressively improve each year;
We have a number of talented players locked up at exceptional rates (e.g., Crowder, Thomas, Bradley);
We have the #3 pick in this draft, thereby giving us our choice of the next tier of players (i.e., Murray, Hield; Bender, etc.);
We have excellent cap management at the moment, giving us considerable fluidity in trades, free agency, and roster retention;
We continue to have excellent picks for the future, most notably the 2017 pick swap with Brooklyn.

The sky is not falling, but with OKC defeating San Antonio (and Cleveland finally clicking), those clinging to the dream that we will win a championship next season need to give it up. As Ainge said, it's time to practice patience and continue to look toward constructing a team that has a long window of contending. That time is not quite yet, but it continues to grow closer. The future is looking bright.

Would not be shocked to see the team grab Ibaka this , however. OKC isn't going to sign both Adams and Ibaka to max deals. Love me some Serge.

I am hoping to wake up to this one as well. I am starting to have a Taj Gibson thing as well.

[ConstableGeneva]

Listening to the Duncdon podcast talking about how Barnes could get 20M per and Batum 25M per makes me grateful that we have Crowder locked up for about 7M a year. I can almost guarantee every GM Danny contacts would ask for Crowder back in a trade. Multi-position defensive wing who can provide decent offense on such a cheap contract is valuable in today's NBA market. Blazers lucked out with Aminu too in this regard.

[Slartibartfast]

Spoiler:

So I know deals like this are usually completely unrealistic because of the moving pieces involved, but I feel like this summer is a bit different considering how many picks are held by such few teams, especially considering there are front office ties between Philly, Boston, and PHX. So this is my one crazy idea, and it depends on a lot of things working out just right..also if you aren't a fan of Murray this probably isn't that appealing to some!

I'd like to see Boston trade 3 + 23 for 4 + 13 to Phoenix. This is completely dependent on how much they love Bender. We pick up Murray at 4. Hope Valentine drops to 13 and pick him up as the Turner replacement. Let Turner walk.

This creates a massive backlog at the guard position like we kind of already have. This is where I'd like to see a crazy three way deal and where this may get unrealistic, heh. This is completely dependent on just how badly Philly wants either Dunn or Hield.

Boston trades Bradley and 16 to NOP, Boston receives number 6 pick and drafts Dunn or Hield depending on who Minny chooses. NOP does this because they are typically shortsighted and are almost always trying to make win now moves in the hope Davis doesn't walk. Bradley provides defense to their backcourt that is almost non-existent right now between dudes like Evans and Gordon.
Philly trades Noel to Boston and receives Dunn.

Obviously there would be some more pieces to match salary and maybe sweeten the pot a bit in some areas, but these are the main pieces.

Yeah typically (and probably still) this kind of stuff is completely unrealistic, but considering how many picks are concentrated between only a handful of teams, there should theoretically be more movement than usual at draft night or the summer.

Our roster is in massive need of rebalancing, and I feel like this accomplishes that pretty well. We need more scoring in the backcourt and more defense in the front court. This accomplishes that. I love AB, but I think Murray has a shot at being a 20/5/5 guy in this league and a top 5 shooter. We have Smart and Rozier to pick up the slack in the defensive side of things. If you don't think Murray has a shot at being a 20 PPG guy then I can understand why some may think this is crazy, but I would like to see something like this.

Barring crazy blockbusters for guys like Cousins, Butler, and George, I would prefer this 10x over trading the third pick for Okafor or drafting the unknown in Bender.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Murray
Crowder/Valentine
Olynyk
Noel

I can roll with that rotation. On paper way better shooting and finally a consistent PNR big for IT who can play D and rebound.

I guess the biggest question is..would NOP actually trade their 6th pick for Bradley and 16? Maybe 13 would be more enticing (likely no shot at Valentine then)? I think they are looking to make win now moves and would be willing to slide back in the draft 7-10 spots to pick up an all defensive guard who can shoot the 3.

Does Philly want Dunn or Hield (guard help) so badly that they trade Noel to get that help? Or would 13 be necessary here to sweeten the pot?

The general point is that with so many assets consolidated to 5-7 teams, some crazy things can happen..who knows if it does! I hope it does!

Really do like adding both Murray and Valentine though (proposed something similar before) and adding Noel - passer/shooters and roll/shot-blocking bigs.

Doesn't really make sense to keep IT on that squad though - too far away and so much of IT's value is in the 2 years left on that deal.

I prefer a trade and free agency based approach to rebalancing the roster while retaining a pick to grab Valentine.

Assuming Utah would be open to dealing soon-2-be FA Hayward, offer them #3, one of our later picks and Amir/Young for Hayward/#12

Offer Atlanta our early 2nds to absorb Korver into our cap space.

Grab Valentine at #12. We'd have a leftover pick at #16 or #23 - could go a variety of big guys there to replace Mickey as development projects. Or could just send it to Atlanta for Korver and go crazy with draft and stash bigs in 2nd round - Qi, Hammons, Maker, Onuaku, Zimmerman, etc.

Then go all-out for Dwight. Use the remaining space for Nene.

Hopefully bring back Sully on his QO.

IT/Smart/Rozier
AB/Korver/Hunter
Hayward/Crowder/Valentine
Jerebko/KO/Mickey (?)
Howard/Nene/Sully

Could swap AB and Crowder as starters as needed.

That team has major shooting/scoring upgrades with Hayward over ET (massive) and Korver solidifying the 4th wing role that none of the young guys could handle last season.

Howard gives us elite defensive rebounding and a clean-up guy to back-up our ball-hawking guards. Nene is one of the best 2-way back-up bigs in the game.

Plus we'd have an army of cheap young 3rd stringers ready to plug in in case of injury + take over when Korver/Nene depart.

[DarkAzcura]

Spoiler:

So I know deals like this are usually completely unrealistic because of the moving pieces involved, but I feel like this summer is a bit different considering how many picks are held by such few teams, especially considering there are front office ties between Philly, Boston, and PHX. So this is my one crazy idea, and it depends on a lot of things working out just right..also if you aren't a fan of Murray this probably isn't that appealing to some!

I'd like to see Boston trade 3 + 23 for 4 + 13 to Phoenix. This is completely dependent on how much they love Bender. We pick up Murray at 4. Hope Valentine drops to 13 and pick him up as the Turner replacement. Let Turner walk.

This creates a massive backlog at the guard position like we kind of already have. This is where I'd like to see a crazy three way deal and where this may get unrealistic, heh. This is completely dependent on just how badly Philly wants either Dunn or Hield.

Boston trades Bradley and 16 to NOP, Boston receives number 6 pick and drafts Dunn or Hield depending on who Minny chooses. NOP does this because they are typically shortsighted and are almost always trying to make win now moves in the hope Davis doesn't walk. Bradley provides defense to their backcourt that is almost non-existent right now between dudes like Evans and Gordon.
Philly trades Noel to Boston and receives Dunn.

Obviously there would be some more pieces to match salary and maybe sweeten the pot a bit in some areas, but these are the main pieces.

Yeah typically (and probably still) this kind of stuff is completely unrealistic, but considering how many picks are concentrated between only a handful of teams, there should theoretically be more movement than usual at draft night or the summer.

Our roster is in massive need of rebalancing, and I feel like this accomplishes that pretty well. We need more scoring in the backcourt and more defense in the front court. This accomplishes that. I love AB, but I think Murray has a shot at being a 20/5/5 guy in this league and a top 5 shooter. We have Smart and Rozier to pick up the slack in the defensive side of things. If you don't think Murray has a shot at being a 20 PPG guy then I can understand why some may think this is crazy, but I would like to see something like this.

Barring crazy blockbusters for guys like Cousins, Butler, and George, I would prefer this 10x over trading the third pick for Okafor or drafting the unknown in Bender.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Murray
Crowder/Valentine
Olynyk
Noel

I can roll with that rotation. On paper way better shooting and finally a consistent PNR big for IT who can play D and rebound.

I guess the biggest question is..would NOP actually trade their 6th pick for Bradley and 16? Maybe 13 would be more enticing (likely no shot at Valentine then)? I think they are looking to make win now moves and would be willing to slide back in the draft 7-10 spots to pick up an all defensive guard who can shoot the 3.

Does Philly want Dunn or Hield (guard help) so badly that they trade Noel to get that help? Or would 13 be necessary here to sweeten the pot?

The general point is that with so many assets consolidated to 5-7 teams, some crazy things can happen..who knows if it does! I hope it does!

Really do like adding both Murray and Valentine though (proposed something similar before) and adding Noel - passer/shooters and roll/shot-blocking bigs.

Doesn't really make sense to keep IT on that squad though - too far away and so much of IT's value is in the 2 years left on that deal.

I prefer a trade and free agency based approach to rebalancing the roster while retaining a pick to grab Valentine.

Assuming Utah would be open to dealing soon-2-be FA Hayward, offer them #3, one of our later picks and Amir/Young for Hayward/#12

Offer Atlanta our early 2nds to absorb Korver into our cap space.

Grab Valentine at #12. We'd have a leftover pick at #16 or #23 - could go a variety of big guys there to replace Mickey as development projects. Or could just send it to Atlanta for Korver and go crazy with draft and stash bigs in 2nd round - Qi, Hammons, Maker, Onuaku, Zimmerman, etc.

Then go all-out for Dwight. Use the remaining space for Nene.

Hopefully bring back Sully on his QO.

IT/Smart/Rozier
AB/Korver/Hunter
Hayward/Crowder/Valentine
Jerebko/KO/Mickey (?)
Howard/Nene/Sully

Could swap AB and Crowder as starters as needed.

That team has major shooting/scoring upgrades with Hayward over ET (massive) and Korver solidifying the 4th wing role that none of the young guys could handle last season.

Howard gives us elite defensive rebounding and a clean-up guy to back-up our ball-hawking guards. Nene is one of the best 2-way back-up bigs in the game.

Plus we'd have an army of cheap young 3rd stringers ready to plug in in case of injury + take over when Korver/Nene depart.

I like the fit and balance, but I worry about trading a top 3 pick for Hayward when I think he was one of the few guys we will actually have a good shot at in FA. I want the Celtics to go hard after Hayward in the summer of 2017, but I'm not sure trading the rights to Murray/Bender for him is the best way to approach getting him here. I'd have to think about that. The value is definitely fair and probably more realistic than a massive 4 way deal that hinges on a couple specific guys being available for PHX and Philly.

Yeah, it also may not make sense to keep IT on the roster, but I've always wanted a loooong window of contending. Everyone thinks we got lucky in 2007 when we still threw together a championship squad after dropping out of the top two. I'm still sad about that lottery because we had a chance at adding Durant and still having the chips to bring in Garnett regardless of whether he would accept an extension or not. I think Ainge would have still rolled the dice on it without that guarantee, and we would have had a 15 year window as a result.

Yeah this isn't exactly the same situation, but I'd love to keep guys like IT/Smart/Crowder/Olynyk together with the addition of guys like Murray/Valentine/Noel. It's the perfect mix of winning now and a youth movement. As IT declines, you have Murray to slowly take the scoring mantle and allow IT to transition into a 6th man 3-4 years from now. Still have the 2017 BKN pick who will probably be hitting his stride ~4 years from now as Murray/Smart/Noel hit their absolute primes. I dunno I like the sound of it. Maybe not as ideal in practice, but I think it'd be nice. Still have a good shot at Hayward in 2017 also who was actually the second part of that plan I posted earlier. If any team has a shot at being Detroit Part 2, it's gotta be that one if put together.

Regardless, it's clear the Celtics have plenty of options. It's nice to know that "plan C, D, and E" can still be pretty darn decent for the Celtics.

[skywalker33]

So I know deals like this are usually completely unrealistic because of the moving pieces involved, but I feel like this summer is a bit different considering how many picks are held by such few teams, especially considering there are front office ties between Philly, Boston, and PHX. So this is my one crazy idea, and it depends on a lot of things working out just right..also if you aren't a fan of Murray this probably isn't that appealing to some!

I'd like to see Boston trade 3 + 23 for 4 + 13 to Phoenix. This is completely dependent on how much they love Bender. We pick up Murray at 4. Hope Valentine drops to 13 and pick him up as the Turner replacement. Let Turner walk.

This creates a massive backlog at the guard position like we kind of already have. This is where I'd like to see a crazy three way deal and where this may get unrealistic, heh. This is completely dependent on just how badly Philly wants either Dunn or Hield.

Boston trades Bradley and 16 to NOP, Boston receives number 6 pick and drafts Dunn or Hield depending on who Minny chooses. NOP does this because they are typically shortsighted and are almost always trying to make win now moves in the hope Davis doesn't walk. Bradley provides defense to their backcourt that is almost non-existent right now between dudes like Evans and Gordon.
Philly trades Noel to Boston and receives Dunn.

Obviously there would be some more pieces to match salary and maybe sweeten the pot a bit in some areas, but these are the main pieces.

Yeah typically (and probably still) this kind of stuff is completely unrealistic, but considering how many picks are concentrated between only a handful of teams, there should theoretically be more movement than usual at draft night or the summer.

Our roster is in massive need of rebalancing, and I feel like this accomplishes that pretty well. We need more scoring in the backcourt and more defense in the front court. This accomplishes that. I love AB, but I think Murray has a shot at being a 20/5/5 guy in this league and a top 5 shooter. We have Smart and Rozier to pick up the slack in the defensive side of things. If you don't think Murray has a shot at being a 20 PPG guy then I can understand why some may think this is crazy, but I would like to see something like this.

Barring crazy blockbusters for guys like Cousins, Butler, and George, I would prefer this 10x over trading the third pick for Okafor or drafting the unknown in Bender.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Murray
Crowder/Valentine
Olynyk
Noel

I can roll with that rotation. On paper way better shooting and finally a consistent PNR big for IT who can play D and rebound.

I guess the biggest question is..would NOP actually trade their 6th pick for Bradley and 16? Maybe 13 would be more enticing (likely no shot at Valentine then)? I think they are looking to make win now moves and would be willing to slide back in the draft 7-10 spots to pick up an all defensive guard who can shoot the 3.

Does Philly want Dunn or Hield (guard help) so badly that they trade Noel to get that help? Or would 13 be necessary here to sweeten the pot?

The general point is that with so many assets consolidated to 5-7 teams, some crazy things can happen..who knows if it does! I hope it does!

#3 + 16 for #4 & 13 sounds more reasonable...and less greedy.

[Banks2Pierce]

#3 + 16 for #4 & 13 sounds more reasonable...and less greedy.

Trading 3 for 4 is weird. Like a big game of chicken for both teams. We'd have to be confident that PHX wouldn't nab our guy, but why does PHX move up if we feel comfortable enough to trade them the pick? We could make the argument that we value a bunch of guys the same way, but I find that trade so weird.

[DarkAzcura]

So I know deals like this are usually completely unrealistic because of the moving pieces involved, but I feel like this summer is a bit different considering how many picks are held by such few teams, especially considering there are front office ties between Philly, Boston, and PHX. So this is my one crazy idea, and it depends on a lot of things working out just right..also if you aren't a fan of Murray this probably isn't that appealing to some!

I'd like to see Boston trade 3 + 23 for 4 + 13 to Phoenix. This is completely dependent on how much they love Bender. We pick up Murray at 4. Hope Valentine drops to 13 and pick him up as the Turner replacement. Let Turner walk.

This creates a massive backlog at the guard position like we kind of already have. This is where I'd like to see a crazy three way deal and where this may get unrealistic, heh. This is completely dependent on just how badly Philly wants either Dunn or Hield.

Boston trades Bradley and 16 to NOP, Boston receives number 6 pick and drafts Dunn or Hield depending on who Minny chooses. NOP does this because they are typically shortsighted and are almost always trying to make win now moves in the hope Davis doesn't walk. Bradley provides defense to their backcourt that is almost non-existent right now between dudes like Evans and Gordon.
Philly trades Noel to Boston and receives Dunn.

Obviously there would be some more pieces to match salary and maybe sweeten the pot a bit in some areas, but these are the main pieces.

Yeah typically (and probably still) this kind of stuff is completely unrealistic, but considering how many picks are concentrated between only a handful of teams, there should theoretically be more movement than usual at draft night or the summer.

Our roster is in massive need of rebalancing, and I feel like this accomplishes that pretty well. We need more scoring in the backcourt and more defense in the front court. This accomplishes that. I love AB, but I think Murray has a shot at being a 20/5/5 guy in this league and a top 5 shooter. We have Smart and Rozier to pick up the slack in the defensive side of things. If you don't think Murray has a shot at being a 20 PPG guy then I can understand why some may think this is crazy, but I would like to see something like this.

Barring crazy blockbusters for guys like Cousins, Butler, and George, I would prefer this 10x over trading the third pick for Okafor or drafting the unknown in Bender.

IT/Rozier
Smart/Murray
Crowder/Valentine
Olynyk
Noel

I can roll with that rotation. On paper way better shooting and finally a consistent PNR big for IT who can play D and rebound.

I guess the biggest question is..would NOP actually trade their 6th pick for Bradley and 16? Maybe 13 would be more enticing (likely no shot at Valentine then)? I think they are looking to make win now moves and would be willing to slide back in the draft 7-10 spots to pick up an all defensive guard who can shoot the 3.

Does Philly want Dunn or Hield (guard help) so badly that they trade Noel to get that help? Or would 13 be necessary here to sweeten the pot?

The general point is that with so many assets consolidated to 5-7 teams, some crazy things can happen..who knows if it does! I hope it does!

#3 + 16 for #4 & 13 sounds more reasonable...and less greedy.

Depends how badly PHX wants Bender. If they fall in the trap of drafting for need and not BPA, they probably won't want guys like Murray or Hield when they have Bledsoe, Knight, and Booker hanging around. I think you always draft BPA, but if they want Bender really badly, I don't find that greedy at all. I'd trade 16 to make it work if necessary, but the value difference between 3 and 4 is potentially greater than the difference between 13 and 23 which the Celtics found out last season when they tried their hardest to move up but couldn't. The Celtics finally have a bit of an upper hand in negotiations unlike previously.

#3 + 16 for #4 & 13 sounds more reasonable...and less greedy.

Trading 3 for 4 is weird. Like a big game of chicken for both teams. We'd have to be confident that PHX wouldn't nab our guy, but why does PHX move up if we feel comfortable enough to trade them the pick? We could make the argument that we value a bunch of guys the same way, but I find that trade so weird.

Well it would work out like most other deals. It'd be pretty screwy for PHX to mess with the Celtics like that and could potentially black ball their front office against the rest of the league..I also don't find it likely considering how close the front offices are. The Celtics would draft Bender and then the PHX Suns would draft Murray, and we'd essentially swap draft rights along with a pick swap between 13 and 23. I'm only willing to do this if a secondary deal with Philly and a team like NOP is in the works to bring us in a guy like Noel. If not, then I'd take Murray at 3 and not really care too much to swap around with PHX. We are probably going to need a better pick than 16 and 23 if we want to bring in a guy like Noel (this is all based on my hypothetical which you may or may not be for). If NOP is cool with Bradley + 16 for 6, then fine, but I'd imagine..more realistically..they'd want 13. Again I'm only trading Bradley if we can pull in a guy like Noel. Otherwise, yeah, you are right, it's not worth it to go through all that hassle for minimal benefits.

But on second thought dropping to 4 (if they love Bender that much) could net us a shot at Valentine who is another player I really like in this draft. We probably have no shot at Valentine at 16 and 23.

Generally I just think there is a good shot we can steal a bit of value out of Phoenix because they may not be too interested in adding guys like Murray or Hield to their current core. As much as Bender may be the perfect big for us, he's even more perfect a fit for Phoenix's situation. I can imagine them overpaying a bit to pick him up.

[165bows]

Lottery results were fun for exactly one week.

Can we get on to the draft now??