Standing Reach -- Shoes or No Shoes?

[Luigi]

What SHOULD they do vs. what DO they do?

[GregOden]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

So what you are saying is, since they wear "shoes" in basketball games, and both sneakers and boots with lifts both fall under the definition of "shoes" then it's perfectly valid to come in with some 2.5" heels for the draft combine and the measurements are completely legit.

[ChuckChilly]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

So what you are saying is, since they wear "shoes" in basketball games, and both sneakers and boots with lifts both fall under the definition of "shoes" then it's perfectly valid to come in with some 2.5" heels for the draft combine and the measurements are completely legit.

So players play in high heels? Be logical.

[GregOden]

Shoes. Cause the players don't play barefoot and the goal is always 10 feet.

I always thought players should be measured to their eyes anyway. Why should a player be drooled over for having a 3 inch forehead.

So what you are saying is, since they wear "shoes" in basketball games, and both sneakers and boots with lifts both fall under the definition of "shoes" then it's perfectly valid to come in with some 2.5" heels for the draft combine and the measurements are completely legit.

So players play in high heels? Be logical.

Clearlt you either have not read the thread and the background on players showing up at the combine with 2.5" heels, or you are intentionally trying to be dense, or you happen to have an IQ below 100. If it's the latter, I apologize for picking on you.

[ChuckChilly]

So what you are saying is, since they wear "shoes" in basketball games, and both sneakers and boots with lifts both fall under the definition of "shoes" then it's perfectly valid to come in with some 2.5" heels for the draft combine and the measurements are completely legit.

So players play in high heels? Be logical.

Clearlt you either have not read the thread and the background on players showing up at the combine with 2.5" heels, or you are intentionally trying to be dense, or you happen to have an IQ below 100. If it's the latter, I apologize for picking on you.

If a player can play in 2.5" heels in the best league in the world and be effective, then more power to them. I'm not proposing blatant cheating of the system like that, but the bottom line is players play in the shoes, so having them be measured in shoes that they actually PLAY IN doesn't seem like some ludicrous notion.

[evitcanI]

So players play in high heels? Be logical.

Clearlt you either have not read the thread and the background on players showing up at the combine with 2.5" heels, or you are intentionally trying to be dense, or you happen to have an IQ below 100. If it's the latter, I apologize for picking on you.

If a player can play in 2.5" heels in the best league in the world and be effective, then more power to them. I'm not proposing blatant cheating of the system like that, but the bottom line is players play in the shoes, so having them be measured in shoes that they actually PLAY IN doesn't seem like some ludicrous notion.

The purpose of measuring them is to assess their relative height. Measuring them in shoes just reduces the accuracy of your measurement. It doesn't make any sense.

[yannisk]

If a player can play in 2.5" heels in the best league in the world and be effective, then more power to them. I'm not proposing blatant cheating of the system like that, but the bottom line is players play in the shoes, so having them be measured in shoes that they actually PLAY IN doesn't seem like some ludicrous notion.

How do you know which shoes they will play in? If I was a player I would go with 3'' heels for the combine measurements and then I would revert to my normal shoes for the games.

[Vibranium]

When the NBA combine does standing reach measurements, do they allow shoes or not? They measure barefoot height, and in-shoes height. Some players wear high heels to the measurement. But I can't tell if they allow shoes in the standing reach.

This is why I ask:
Ideally, you'd have players do snow angels and picture the plane of coverage. But it's a puzzle to get to that from wingspan, height, and standing reach. For example, having a long neck helps the height measurement. That helps you see over defenses, and tells us where your shoulder bulks sits (interesting for rebounding). And players with very broad shoulders may have long wingspans that don't reach as high as players with narrow shoulders. The differences are subtle, but I'm still interested.

Take this case:

Player - Barefoot - Wingspan - Reach
Carlos Boozer - 6' 7.75" - 7' 2.25" - 9' 0.5"
Brent Wright - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.5" - 8' 9.5"

Boozer has a .75" better wingspan. So each arm is .37" longer. But he has a full 3" advantage in the reach. That's a big difference for otherwise similarly measured players. Is that all from narrow shoulders?

Wright had no in shoes measurements for height. Boozer had some bigs ones (added 1.75").

Jeff Green - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.25 - 8' 7"

Green is down 1" on Boozer's reach. .5" for each arm. But he's 5.5" down on his reach.

All this makes me wonder if Boozer got to wear shoes in the reach while others may not have And this year's discrepancies added to my suspicion. Draft Express got this memo from the NBA office:

"Please note that there were variances with the standing reach measurements for several players in comparison to prior recorded measurements. As a result, the unofficial anthropometric measurements and strength and agility testing results (currently available on nba.com) are under review. The official measurements and testing results will be released as soon as the internal review is complete.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Combine-Measurements-Under-Review-5499

So, does anyone know how they handle shoes in the standing reach?

Why barefoot? It's not like they are gonna play basketball barefooted.

[Hindenburg]

When the NBA combine does standing reach measurements, do they allow shoes or not? They measure barefoot height, and in-shoes height. Some players wear high heels to the measurement. But I can't tell if they allow shoes in the standing reach.

This is why I ask:
Ideally, you'd have players do snow angels and picture the plane of coverage. But it's a puzzle to get to that from wingspan, height, and standing reach. For example, having a long neck helps the height measurement. That helps you see over defenses, and tells us where your shoulder bulks sits (interesting for rebounding). And players with very broad shoulders may have long wingspans that don't reach as high as players with narrow shoulders. The differences are subtle, but I'm still interested.

Take this case:

Player - Barefoot - Wingspan - Reach
Carlos Boozer - 6' 7.75" - 7' 2.25" - 9' 0.5"
Brent Wright - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.5" - 8' 9.5"

Boozer has a .75" better wingspan. So each arm is .37" longer. But he has a full 3" advantage in the reach. That's a big difference for otherwise similarly measured players. Is that all from narrow shoulders?

Wright had no in shoes measurements for height. Boozer had some bigs ones (added 1.75").

Jeff Green - 6' 7.75" - 7' 1.25 - 8' 7"

Green is down 1" on Boozer's reach. .5" for each arm. But he's 5.5" down on his reach.

All this makes me wonder if Boozer got to wear shoes in the reach while others may not have And this year's discrepancies added to my suspicion. Draft Express got this memo from the NBA office:

"Please note that there were variances with the standing reach measurements for several players in comparison to prior recorded measurements. As a result, the unofficial anthropometric measurements and strength and agility testing results (currently available on nba.com) are under review. The official measurements and testing results will be released as soon as the internal review is complete.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Combine-Measurements-Under-Review-5499

So, does anyone know how they handle shoes in the standing reach?

Why barefoot? It's not like they are gonna play basketball barefooted.

Did you even read anything he posted?

You got players like Boozer showing up in 2-3 inch high shoes for the combine (then they revert back to playing in normal shoes anyway) and it completely skews the measurements. Barefeet is a lot more accurate. You cannot cheat barefeet.

How is this so hard to understand? By your logic, if a player shows up with a 4 inch high afro then you add 4 inches to his height?

[CarMalone]

How are so many people willing to ignore the effects of lurking variables? The current system is so vulnerable to fraud and abuse.

[Cartuse]

Most of the times you see a standing reach that looks way too low, it's because of players trying to add to their vertical, which is kinda dumb. I remember Pat Connaughton recording a 44 inch vertical, and me being skeptical about it. Then i saw his reach measured at 8 feet, lol (he's 6'5" shoes). I know white players tend to have shorter arms, but he has like a 6'9" wingspan. He tried to boost up his already impressive vertical numbers and ended up looking like a damn wide-shouldered t-rex...

[Luigi]

Most of the times you see a standing reach that looks way too low, it's because of players trying to add to their vertical, which is kinda dumb. I remember Pat Connaughton recording a 44 inch vertical, and me being skeptical about it. Then i saw his reach measured at 8 feet, lol (he's 6'5" shoes). I know white players tend to have shorter arms, but he has like a 6'9" wingspan. He tried to boost up his already impressive vertical numbers and ended up looking like a damn wide-shouldered t-rex...

Yeah, that's another issue. I've heard people call it shrugging. But if I'm evaluating a player, I'd rather see a permanent reach than a vertical that needs to be timed to be effective.