Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2

Joest2003 · Post #1721 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:18 pm

Lol ok guys you win. Our 7 foot starting center who averages 6.2 rebounds is athletic and is going to lead us to the ECF with his athletism and toughness. I forgot you can't say anything about baby Zeller here.

LofJ · Post #1722 » by **LofJ** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:20 pm

If your criticisms had more substance no one would be going after you. Saying that Zeller is unathletic is a criticism devoid of substance because it simply isn't true. And believe it or not Cody averaged more rebounds per 36 minutes than a guy you just advocated we go after in free agency - Mozgov.

I'd love it if Cody was an elite rebounder, but he isn't a terrible one either. As he gets stronger he will get better. Ideally we'll be able to sign, trade, or draft another Center to split time with Zeller. Him coupled with someone like Noah would be one heck of a combo at Center.

Post #1723 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:27 pm

Just for kicks I looked up the stats on rebounding by players this season who spent 50 or more games starting at center. I specifically pulled numbers per 100 possessions, so adjusting for PT and pace.

Cody Zeller rebounded at essentially the same rate as Steven Adams, Derrick Favors, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, Nerlens Noel, and Porzingis.

Notwithstanding our system, Cody pulled more O boards per 100 possessions than Cousins, the Gasol bros, ADavis, and Horford, and essentially the same as Bogut and Noel.

Food for thought.

Post #1724 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:33 pm

A reminder to just how athletic Zeller is compared to his peers

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1643504-cody-zellers-strong-combine-performance-should-reinvigorate-draft-stock

So it's understandable that the mainstream perception of Zeller was a little skewed in the athleticism department. At best, he was mostly described as an "above-average" athlete, but very few touted him as top-notch. Certainly, those who threw around words like "stiff" are victims of a larger cultural stereotype that we won't discuss here.

But as a great wordsmith and soon-to-be two-time father once said, "men lie, women lie, numbers don't."

According to ESPN's Chad Ford, the Indiana center leapt 35.5 inches in the standing vertical jump on Friday. That astounding leap was the highest among anyone who participated in athletic drills this week:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/335425553899347969[/tweet]

He also finished with a very solid 10.82 seconds in the lane agility drill and had the fastest sprint time among big men at 3.15 seconds, per Ford. It was a virtuoso performance that is almost reminiscent of Oklahoma offensive tackle Lane Johnson's brilliant combine, which helped vault him from borderline first-rounder all the way to the No. 4 pick in April's NFL draft.

He has plenty of faults, mostly wingspan (short arms), lack of consistent outside jumpshot, needs to get stronger, but you can't describe him as unathletic.

Anyway... I'm done with this particular argument.

Joest2003 · Post #1725 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:40 pm

What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points? We don't have to live this way guys. We deserve better as a fan base who suffered through the tyres Thomas and Diop days.

Post #1726 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:45 pm

Joest2003 wrote:What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points? We don't have to live this way guys. We deserve better as a fan base who suffered through the tyres Thomas and Diop days.

I think all of us would gladly take Jordan, Drummond, Cousins etc... as our center if given the option. Nobody here is proclaiming Cody as the undisputed center of the Hornets for the next 5 years nor is anyone trying to suggest Cody is an elite center like the guys you mentioned.

We can chase Howard, Whiteside, Horford etc.. this summer, but it comes with a cost. Elite centers are not easy to obtain.

Post #1727 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:52 pm

Joest2003 wrote:What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

Then I would repost my post from 42 minutes ago where I point out that DJ and Cody rebounded at basically the same level when they were the same age.

Joest2003 · Post #1728 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:57 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

Then I would repost my post from 42 minutes ago where I point out that DJ and Cody rebounded at basically the same level when they were the same age.

Nice so then we should expect Cody to average 12 12 this season. That would shut me right up.

Post #1729 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:58 pm

btw, I took Cody's best 5 games (stats)

23/8
19/10
18/11
21/8
15/14

Averages of 19.2/10.2

19.2 > than either of Drummond's or Jordans PPG, so you're not correct in your statement, but whatever.

Also, Cody actually averages more points per minute than Jordan, so lets not act like Jordan is the superior offensive player.

Post #1730 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:02 pm

or if you just took his 5 best scoring games: 20.8/7.8

Post #1731 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:03 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

Then I would repost my post from 42 minutes ago where I point out that DJ and Cody rebounded at basically the same level when they were the same age.

Nice so then we should expect Cody to average 12 12 this season. That would shut me right up.

Seems like it all comes down to rebounding with you.

Joest2003 · Post #1732 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:06 pm

fatlever wrote:btw, I took Cody's best 5 games (stats)

23/8
19/10
18/11
21/8
15/14

Averages of 19.2/10.2

19.2 > than either of Drummond's or Jordans PPG, so you're not correct in your statement, but whatever.

Also, Cody actually averages more points per minute than Jordan, so lets not act like Jordan is the superior offensive player.

Drummonds 16.2ppg and 14.8rpg is better than 19.2ppg and 10.2rpg if you ask me. Anyway the fact someone's best 5 career games is anywhere near someone else season averages is not a good look. Expecially when Cody is listed as a inch taller than Drummond.

Joest2003 · Post #1733 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:07 pm

fatlever wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Then I would repost my post from 42 minutes ago where I point out that DJ and Cody rebounded at basically the same level when they were the same age.

Nice so then we should expect Cody to average 12 12 this season. That would shut me right up.

Seems like it all comes down to rebounding with you.

Ya man I expect our 7 foot starting center tof be able to rebound. Rebounds win games.

Post #1734 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:08 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
fatlever wrote:btw, I took Cody's best 5 games (stats)

23/8
19/10
18/11
21/8
15/14

Averages of 19.2/10.2

19.2 > than either of Drummond's or Jordans PPG, so you're not correct in your statement, but whatever.

Also, Cody actually averages more points per minute than Jordan, so lets not act like Jordan is the superior offensive player.

Drummonds 16.2ppg and 14.8rpg is better than 19.2ppg and 10.2rpg if you ask me. Anyway the fact someone's best 5 career games is anywhere near someone else season averages is not a good look. Expecially when Cody is listed as a inch taller than Drummond.

Just going by what you said

What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

You said rebounds AND points. Only one of those two statements is true - rebounds.

Post #1735 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:12 pm

Joest2003 wrote:Expecially when Cody is listed as a inch taller than Drummond.

You know as well as I do that height means little for big men. Length, standing reach and wingspan are more important. Cody has short arms and smallish hands. Its his biggest weakness (for him playing center). Drummond also weighs about 50 lbs more than Cody.

Joest2003 · Post #1736 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:12 pm

fatlever wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:
fatlever wrote:btw, I took Cody's best 5 games (stats)

23/8
19/10
18/11
21/8
15/14

Averages of 19.2/10.2

19.2 > than either of Drummond's or Jordans PPG, so you're not correct in your statement, but whatever.

Also, Cody actually averages more points per minute than Jordan, so lets not act like Jordan is the superior offensive player.

Drummonds 16.2ppg and 14.8rpg is better than 19.2ppg and 10.2rpg if you ask me. Anyway the fact someone's best 5 career games is anywhere near someone else season averages is not a good look. Expecially when Cody is listed as a inch taller than Drummond.

Just going by what you said

What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

You said rebounds AND points. Only one of those two statements is true - rebounds.

To be fair on was referring to codys 5 career double doubles. I would consider those his best games.

Post #1737 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:14 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
Ya man I expect our 7 foot starting center tof be able to rebound. Rebounds win games.

And like YB has pointed out 100 times, the Hornets led the league in defensive rebounding and that was w/out our best rebounder (per position - MKG). Rebounding only became an issue in the playoffs due specific matchups and injuries.

Joest2003 · Post #1738 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:14 pm

fatlever wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Expecially when Cody is listed as a inch taller than Drummond.

You know as well as I do that height means little for big men. Length, standing reach and wingspan are more important. Cody has short arms and smallish hands. Its his biggest weakness (for him playing center). Drummond also weighs about 50 lbs more than Cody.

Exactly that's when his elite athletism you guys speak of needs to come into action. To make up for his small arms.

Post #1739 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:15 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:What if I told you you can take codys 5 best games of his career and get the averages of his points and rebounds for those 5 games and it still wouldn't be better than Drummonds, cousins, or Jordans season stats for rebounds and points?

Then I would repost my post from 42 minutes ago where I point out that DJ and Cody rebounded at basically the same level when they were the same age.

Nice so then we should expect Cody to average 12 12 this season. That would shut me right up.

Is that what Deandre Jordan averaged when he was 24?

I'll save you the homework - when DJ was 24, he was in his 5th NBA season and he averaged 9 points and 7 boards in 25 MPG. Would that satisfy you?

Post #1740 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:16 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
To be fair on was referring to codys 5 career double doubles. I would consider those his best games.

So what you are saying is the game where Cody had 13 points and 11 rebounds vs the Suns in a loss was better than his game where he had 23 points and 8 rebounds vs the Bucks in a win.

Makes sense.