Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[phiphan]

Implicitly you are dude. That's the point of your argument, that if the roles were reversed Durant would have made the tourney.

Nope. I'm saying these guys that go to essentially gutted teams has usually had success. D'Angelo was brought up earlier in here. Beasley fits in this mold. I'm not putting Simmons on K-State or Ohio St, but it's a similar situation.

I'm quoting you here again man:

I was pointing out that if the guy is so damn good, like Durant, he would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney

You are directly arguing that Durant (or someone as good as Durant) would have made the NCAA tourney with LSU. That's perfectly fine to argue, but don't criticize others for pure speculation when you're doing the same thing.

[PhilasFinest]

Wasn't DJ Augustin a top 10 pick?

Speaking of him....he might be a worthwhile veteran PG to bring in.

[PhilasFinest]

Is winning at the Collegiate level even something that people look for in prospects??

Serious question.

[Ericb5]

Yeah, I'd be more worried about Simmons wanting to go to LA if anything had been said after the lottery, but there hasn't been. In fact only encouraging stuff has happened such as his camp mentioning that the Philly market is good and Simmons liking 76ers things on social media.

Simmons' camp has put out word that he is fine with Philly, and he was even liking Sixers tweets the other day.

That being said, even if he DID prefer LA, I would draft him anyway.

[Ericb5]

I really cant make up my mind, especially if we end up trading for 3 or 4 because if we get Ingram I want Dunn, if we get Ben then I want Murray

I'm firmly team Simmons, but I am torn about who to take if we get another top pick.

I think that Murray and Dunn are in the same tier talent wise, and I agree with your assessment as to which one works better with Simmons, and which one works better with Ingram.

I think I like Dunn a little bit more as a prospect though, and wouldn't be upset if we drafted him with Simmons. I just don't want to trade Okafor for him straight up.

[Negrodamus]

Implicitly you are dude. That's the point of your argument, that if the roles were reversed Durant would have made the tourney.

Nope. I'm saying these guys that go to essentially gutted teams has usually had success. D'Angelo was brought up earlier in here. Beasley fits in this mold. I'm not putting Simmons on K-State or Ohio St, but it's a similar situation.

I'm quoting you here again man:

I was pointing out that if the guy is so damn good, like Durant, he would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney

You are directly arguing that Durant (or someone as good as Durant) would have made the NCAA tourney with LSU. That's perfectly fine to argue, but don't criticize others for pure speculation when you're doing the same thing.

I don't get that impression from that quote. "If the guy is so damn good, like Durant" means if he is the transcendent talent that Durant is, "he would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney" with a team that is basically him with a bunch of role players. You're implying something that isn't there. Unless you can find me saying "If Durant was on this LSU team, he would have made this tourney" or "If Simmons was on that Texas team, he wouldn't make the tourney", then I don't mean that.

It's not a KAT or Okafor situation where they had other major talent on the team. Simmons was the guy, Durant was the guy, Russell was the guy. I don't think I was being too ambiguous in what I said.

[phillthy13]

Gotta say, it's nice to argue over guys we know we can get. That being said, Simmons will be the pick simply because it's BC's first move as GM and he doesn't want to start off on the hot seat with why he passed on the consensus #1 pick since last summer.

And that's the problem, Simmons' isn't the "consensus" pick, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate at all. This isn't the Anthony Davis draft, or the John Wall draft, this is the Simmons vs Ingram draft.

So be honest...If Ingram is taken #1 on draft night, you wouldn't be completely shocked? The whole league would be because Simmons IS the consensus #1 and has been. Unless Simmons gets hurt (please God no) in a workout or pulls an Eli Manning, be ready to welcome Simmons to Philly and be reaaaaally happy about it.

[phiphan]

Nope. I'm saying these guys that go to essentially gutted teams has usually had success. D'Angelo was brought up earlier in here. Beasley fits in this mold. I'm not putting Simmons on K-State or Ohio St, but it's a similar situation.

I'm quoting you here again man:

I was pointing out that if the guy is so damn good, like Durant, he would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney

You are directly arguing that Durant (or someone as good as Durant) would have made the NCAA tourney with LSU. That's perfectly fine to argue, but don't criticize others for pure speculation when you're doing the same thing.

I don't get that impression from that quote. "If the guy is so damn good, like Durant" means if he is the transcendent talent that Durant is, "he would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney" with a team that is basically him with a bunch of role players. You're implying something that isn't there. Unless you can find me saying "If Durant was on this LSU team, he would have made this tourney" or "If Simmons was on that Texas team, he wouldn't make the tourney", then I don't mean that.

It's not a KAT or Okafor situation where they had other major talent on the team. Simmons was the guy, Durant was the guy, Russell was the guy. I don't think I was being too ambiguous in what I said.

These are practically logical equivalents: "If Durant was on this LSU team, he would have made this tourney", "If the guy is so damn good, like Durant, [LSU] would have been able to make it to the NCAA tourney." But w/e. I'm dropping it.

[Negrodamus]

people are not being objective right now.

You are probably pointing this in my direction, but I agree. I'm not sure this is even worth arguing anymore since Simmons is infallible in many poster's eyes. All he needs to do is fix his jumper and he's an all star, I guess. Playing devil's advocate against a guy that has red flags is not welcomed. I've acknowledged that Simmons is a great prospect, but he has some major issues that need to be addressed before he becomes a great player.

You don't just "fix your jumper".

If you want to relive this situation, just search "Negrodamus Evan Turner Realgm Draft" and look up threads back in 2010. Evan Turner needed to just fix his jumper, but many were anointing him the next Penny Hardaway, Brandon Roy, etc. Bringing up that DeMarcus Cousins was a better prospect would get the whole "eat his way out of the league" or "he's too crazy". The latter has credence, but I'd rather deal with 6 years of Cousins, Iguodala, and Jrue than what we had with Turner. No way of knowing what would have happened, but I'm sure it would have been better than the apathy of 2010-2013.

I obviously like the current situation we are in over the Cousins timeline, but at the time I wouldn't know the Hinkie plan was an option.

[Negrodamus]

But w/e. I'm dropping it.

Do you promise?

[Negrodamus]

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/david_aldridge/05/23/morning-tip-los-angeles-lakers-denver-nuggets-philadelphia-76ers-phoenix-suns-could-shape-2016-draft/index.html?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf26785184

Okafor looks like the odd man out, as predicted by many on here.

[Rjpscr]

pretty interesting with this poll I remember at the start of the NBA season it was Simmons or nothing threw mid season it swung towards Ingram now that are season is over the poll swung back towards Simmons. This is a really good problem to have haha I chose ingram but I dont care which one we take I would be Ecstatic with one or the other.

[Sportfan73]

I really cant make up my mind, especially if we end up trading for 3 or 4 because if we get Ingram I want Dunn, if we get Ben then I want Murray

I want Okafor, grant, 24, and 26 for Knight, 4(murray), and 13 (valentine)
Knight/Canaan/tj
Murray/valentine/Nik
Covington/hollis
Simmons/dario
Noel/Embiid/holmes
Bring in a vet to possibly start over or back up Covington and a vet pf just to have around or just keep Landry.

[philly262]

I really cant make up my mind, especially if we end up trading for 3 or 4 because if we get Ingram I want Dunn, if we get Ben then I want Murray

I want Okafor, grant, 24, and 26 for Knight, 4(murray), and 13 (valentine)
Knight/Canaan/tj
Murray/valentine/Nik
Covington/hollis
Simmons/dario
Noel/Embiid/holmes
Bring in a vet to possibly start over or back up Covington and a vet pf just to have around or just keep Landry.

I was thinking of a similar trade with the Suns, but instead of Valentine I was targeting the French swingman Luwawu.

[Negrodamus]

I'll just continue to steal articles posted on /r/sixers. I feel no guilt since it gives these guys more clicks.

Here's some fuel for the pro-Simmons fire: http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/05/23/who-should-the-celtics-take-with-the-third-pick-in-the-2016-nba-draft/

[FreesFro]

people are not being objective right now.

You are probably pointing this in my direction, but I agree. I'm not sure this is even worth arguing anymore since Simmons is infallible in many poster's eyes. All he needs to do is fix his jumper and he's an all star, I guess. Playing devil's advocate against a guy that has red flags is not welcomed. I've acknowledged that Simmons is a great prospect, but he has some major issues that need to be addressed before he becomes a great player.

You don't just "fix your jumper".

If you want to relive this situation, just search "Negrodamus Evan Turner Realgm Draft" and look up threads back in 2010. Evan Turner needed to just fix his jumper, but many were anointing him the next Penny Hardaway, Brandon Roy

Two things. Ben Simmons is not Evan Turner. We've discussed this already Evan Turner wasn't elite in any part of his game. Ben Simmons is a 6'10", 240lbs player with elite court vision and ball handling skills. He can finish at the rim with either hand effectively. Then second thing is does he need to turn into Steph Curry as a shooter to be worth the #1 pick? Two of the best players in the NBA right now are not elite shooters, Lebron and Westbrook. They're streaky, but not great shooters. Yet, the still score.

[Kobblehead]

There's no need for fuel since a logical and pragmatic argument to take Ingram over Simmons doesn't exist.

[PhilasFinest]

I'll just continue to steal articles posted on /r/sixers. I feel no guilt since it gives these guys more clicks.

Here's some fuel for the pro-Simmons fire: http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/05/23/who-should-the-celtics-take-with-the-third-pick-in-the-2016-nba-draft/

Interesting stuff.

[Negrodamus]

people are not being objective right now.

You are probably pointing this in my direction, but I agree. I'm not sure this is even worth arguing anymore since Simmons is infallible in many poster's eyes. All he needs to do is fix his jumper and he's an all star, I guess. Playing devil's advocate against a guy that has red flags is not welcomed. I've acknowledged that Simmons is a great prospect, but he has some major issues that need to be addressed before he becomes a great player.

You don't just "fix your jumper".

If you want to relive this situation, just search "Negrodamus Evan Turner Realgm Draft" and look up threads back in 2010. Evan Turner needed to just fix his jumper, but many were anointing him the next Penny Hardaway, Brandon Roy

Two things. Ben Simmons is not Evan Turner. We've discussed this already Evan Turner wasn't elite in any part of his game. Ben Simmons is a 6'10", 240lbs player with elite court vision and ball handling skills. He can finish at the rim with either hand effectively. Then second thing is does he need to turn into Steph Curry as a shooter to be worth the #1 pick? Two of the best players in the NBA right now are not elite shooters, Lebron and Westbrook. They're streaky, but not great shooters. Yet, the still score.

You're absolutely right. He is a better prospect. But Evan Turner went #2 in a draft that featured John Wall, Paul George, Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Hassan Whiteside, Gordon Hayward, and Greg Monroe. So while we are looking through the lens of hindsight, we can laugh about Turner as an elite prospect, but that wasn't the case in the summer of 2010.

Also, I'm not looking for him to be Steph Curry, but I would feel a little more comfortable if he didn't have a phobia of shooting. Even if he shot poorly but had some sort of volume, I'd feel a little better since he made an attempt to work on his shot. He would forego shooting a wide open shot frequently. That's terrifying to me.

[Kobblehead]

Evan Turner burst on the scene as an upperclassman. Ben Simmons was as great as advertised as a true freshman. There's a huge difference.