Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[FreesFro]

You are probably pointing this in my direction, but I agree. I'm not sure this is even worth arguing anymore since Simmons is infallible in many poster's eyes. All he needs to do is fix his jumper and he's an all star, I guess. Playing devil's advocate against a guy that has red flags is not welcomed. I've acknowledged that Simmons is a great prospect, but he has some major issues that need to be addressed before he becomes a great player.

You don't just "fix your jumper".

If you want to relive this situation, just search "Negrodamus Evan Turner Realgm Draft" and look up threads back in 2010. Evan Turner needed to just fix his jumper, but many were anointing him the next Penny Hardaway, Brandon Roy

Two things. Ben Simmons is not Evan Turner. We've discussed this already Evan Turner wasn't elite in any part of his game. Ben Simmons is a 6'10", 240lbs player with elite court vision and ball handling skills. He can finish at the rim with either hand effectively. Then second thing is does he need to turn into Steph Curry as a shooter to be worth the #1 pick? Two of the best players in the NBA right now are not elite shooters, Lebron and Westbrook. They're streaky, but not great shooters. Yet, the still score.

You're absolutely right. He is a better prospect. But Evan Turner went #2 in a draft that featured John Wall, Paul George, Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Hassan Whiteside, Gordon Hayward, and Greg Monroe. So while we are looking through the lens of hindsight, we can laugh about Turner as an elite prospect, but that wasn't the case in the summer of 2010.

Also, I'm not looking for him to be Steph Curry, but I would feel a little more comfortable if he didn't have a phobia of shooting. Even if he shot poorly but had some sort of volume, I'd feel a little better since he made an attempt to work on his shot. He would forego shooting a wide open shot frequently. That's terrifying to me.

Yes, but nobody thought there was one part of Evan's game that was elite. Nobody. Solid in a bunch of areas, but that was about it. Simmons has some elite qualities.

Simmons is working on his shot, don't worry. The funny thing when I read your point is that do we really know Simmons can or can't shoot since we've rarely seen him shoot? He was decent at the line and shows good form when I've seen him shoot, but such a small sample size. He may surprise or he may not.

[Negrodamus]

Two things. Ben Simmons is not Evan Turner. We've discussed this already Evan Turner wasn't elite in any part of his game. Ben Simmons is a 6'10", 240lbs player with elite court vision and ball handling skills. He can finish at the rim with either hand effectively. Then second thing is does he need to turn into Steph Curry as a shooter to be worth the #1 pick? Two of the best players in the NBA right now are not elite shooters, Lebron and Westbrook. They're streaky, but not great shooters. Yet, the still score.

You're absolutely right. He is a better prospect. But Evan Turner went #2 in a draft that featured John Wall, Paul George, Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Hassan Whiteside, Gordon Hayward, and Greg Monroe. So while we are looking through the lens of hindsight, we can laugh about Turner as an elite prospect, but that wasn't the case in the summer of 2010.

Also, I'm not looking for him to be Steph Curry, but I would feel a little more comfortable if he didn't have a phobia of shooting. Even if he shot poorly but had some sort of volume, I'd feel a little better since he made an attempt to work on his shot. He would forego shooting a wide open shot frequently. That's terrifying to me.

Yes, but nobody thought there was one part of Evan's game that was elite. Nobody. Solid in a bunch of areas, but that was about it. Simmons has some elite qualities.

Simmons is working on his shot, don't worry. The funny thing when I read your point is that do we really know Simmons can or can't shoot since we've rarely seen him shoot? He was decent at the line and shows good form when I've seen him shoot, but such a small sample size. He may surprise or he may not.

Oh my god I hope so. If that's the case, then he has been actively holding out on taking jump shots so he can have this huge NBA reveal that he's been able to shoot this whole time. That would be absolutely fascinating and I'd question his sanity a little. I mean, he was literally left alone at the elbow to shoot at times.

[eagereyez]

Sigh, I see some are so deep in Simmons's bandwagon that he's being credited for things that he doesn't do (play with fire or play defense in general).

I can at least acknowledge that he is worthy of his high billing, but I'm not interested in taking him over Ingram. He's the type of guy that needs to get passed on to gain motivation so he can stick it to the man.

Yea, all he has to do is learn how to shoot the ball and we've got one of the best in the league. All I need to do is learn Python, Ruby, and PHP on top of continued mastery of front end languages and I can make a multimillion dollar app. That's ALL I have to do.

His defense was one of his strengths. He posted a higher BPM and lower DRTG on a worse team than Ingram. In fact his splits were identical to guys like Justise Winslow, who everyone considered to be an elite defender in college. People see that Ingram is tall and long and immediately think that he's a better defender. It's mind boggling.

There seems to be a split between people who get their information from pithy smear articles and those who look at the actual stats. The guy is lazy and plays no defense, so he basically walked into college as a freshman and put up 19/12/5 on .60 TS% and 11.6 BPM. Do they not understand that this is a great argument to make in favor of Simmons? Imagine what he can do when he actually tries!

[HartfordWhalers]

So, we are all sold on Simmons now, right?

[sixers23]

i was always team simmons but its funny to me how ingram was dominating this poll then we get number 1 and so many people flip lol

[ProcessDoctor]

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/david_aldridge/05/23/morning-tip-los-angeles-lakers-denver-nuggets-philadelphia-76ers-phoenix-suns-could-shape-2016-draft/index.html?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf26785184

Okafor looks like the odd man out, as predicted by many on here.

Would be difficult to build around Simmons/Okafor/Embiid. It was hard enough watching Okafor/Noel last year. Glad to hear that we are targeting another top pick instead of an older vet who might not fit the trajectory of our core. Hoping we walk away with Murray + another asset!

[Ericb5]

i was always team simmons but its funny to me how ingram was dominating this poll then we get number 1 and so many people flip lol

I wonder if that is because before we got the number 1 pick them it was an abstract concept. Ingram clearly fits better so it is easier to jump to him on first blush.

Once we got the first pick then it became real.

It still surprises me though because it isn't close for me. Simmons is a great player that isn't a perfect fit, and Ingram is a good player that is a perfect fit. Two different levels for me.

[Negrodamus]

Sigh, I see some are so deep in Simmons's bandwagon that he's being credited for things that he doesn't do (play with fire or play defense in general).

I can at least acknowledge that he is worthy of his high billing, but I'm not interested in taking him over Ingram. He's the type of guy that needs to get passed on to gain motivation so he can stick it to the man.

Yea, all he has to do is learn how to shoot the ball and we've got one of the best in the league. All I need to do is learn Python, Ruby, and PHP on top of continued mastery of front end languages and I can make a multimillion dollar app. That's ALL I have to do.

His defense was one of his strengths. He posted a higher BPM and lower DRTG on a worse team than Ingram. In fact his splits were identical to guys like Justise Winslow, who everyone considered to be an elite defender in college. People see that Ingram is tall and long and immediately think that he's a better defender. It's mind boggling.

There seems to be a split between people who get their information from pithy smear articles and those who look at the actual stats. The guy is lazy and plays no defense, so he basically walked into college as a freshman and put up 19/12/5 on .60 TS% and 11.6 BPM. Do they not understand that this is a great argument to make in favor of Simmons? Imagine what he can do when he actually tries!

Probably no more than 2 pages back did I post I believe 2 articles, maybe one, that was overwhelmingly pro Simmons. I'm not blind in my decision making. Hell, I don't even dislike Simmons at all. If we take him, I'm hoping for him to become LeBron James. But I also hoped that Evan Turner would become Brandon Roy.

I don't outright dislike Simmons like I did Turner. I just see reasons to take pause when it comes to him. There's no doubt that he's naturally talented. You're right, he did put up ridiculous numbers while basically going through the motions. However, he's not going to be playing against John Egbunu or Gavin Ware in the next level.

In terms of defense:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA4YqFcyUpc&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi&index=35[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXTha1s_chI&index=45&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yKFSyRTiZE&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi&index=59[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOrIFkZahCE&index=69&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wwU6kKSHG4&index=70&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi[/youtube]

Look, he can become a good defender. I hope he does since we're, in all likelihood, taking him. I just wish he didn't give up like he did. The Sixers will give him every opportunity to turn him into a star, but if he doesn't want to take those steps, then he'll always be the extremely talented player that trotted out on the court and put up good numbers.

[PhilasFinest]

i was always team simmons but its funny to me how ingram was dominating this poll then we get number 1 and so many people flip lol

Maybe Im wrong, But I think the poll was actually reset after winning the lottery.

[LloydFree]

1. Draft Ingram #1
2. Trade Okafor for #3 before Ainge Sobers up
3. Draft Dunn at #3
4. Get Embiid out on the court.

That will be the best 3 man combination in the division by far.

[JDizzel3000]

Is winning at the Collegiate level even something that people look for in prospects??

Serious question.

I guess ...but give me

Damian Lillard
Klay Thompson
Jimmy Butler
Paul George


On my team everyday before a Kyle Singler

[Agnostifarian]

Sigh, I see some are so deep in Simmons's bandwagon that he's being credited for things that he doesn't do (play with fire or play defense in general).

How can you possibly hold the belief that Ben Simmons does not play defense?

He had identical STL%, BLK% and DBPM slits as Justise Winslow and Stanley Johnson.

It's you guys pick and choose what to believe, facts be damned.

Because I watched his games and don't rely solely on stats. Do those percentages account for plays where he stands there on help defense and lets the guy get an easy basket?

I saw him standing around in the paint swiping at every guy that drove past him. I think he's going to draw fouls if he doesn't clean that up. He is a tremendous rebounder though. That coach did him no favors. LSU would have been great for Okafor but the team concept did not emphasize Simmon's talent.

[theo42]

1. Draft Ingram #1
2. Trade Okafor for #3 before Ainge Sobers up
3. Draft Dunn at #3
4. Get Embiid out on the court.

That will be the best 3 man combination in the division by far.

I am glad you are so gung ho to trade our best player within the division for an unknown.

We would be reminded how much of a mistake that was an awful lot.

[LloydFree]

1. Draft Ingram #1
2. Trade Okafor for #3 before Ainge Sobers up
3. Draft Dunn at #3
4. Get Embiid out on the court.

That will be the best 3 man combination in the division by far.

I am glad you are so gung ho to trade our best player within the division for an unknown.

We would be reminded how much of a mistake that was an awful lot.

If Okafor was actually the team's best talent, I wouldn't be "hung ho" about trading him. If I thought he was good, I wouldn't trade him. He isn't great, so I'm not worried about what he could do against the 76ers.

[cksdayoff]

still team ingram

[theo42]

1. Draft Ingram #1
2. Trade Okafor for #3 before Ainge Sobers up
3. Draft Dunn at #3
4. Get Embiid out on the court.

That will be the best 3 man combination in the division by far.

I am glad you are so gung ho to trade our best player within the division for an unknown.

We would be reminded how much of a mistake that was an awful lot.

If Okafor was actually the team's best talent, I wouldn't be "hung ho" about trading him. If I thought he was good, I wouldn't trade him. He isn't great, so I'm not worried about what he could do against the 76ers.

He is our teams best talent. There is no question about it.

Until Embiid steps on the court...let alone stays on it...there is no question about it.

Maybe go back and watch how he dismantled KAT in the head to head matchup. You know..the rookie of the year and #1 overall and all...

[PhilasFinest]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/734879528024219649[/tweet]

Good read by our very own, DBodner.

[LongLiveHinkie]

If you don't think Okafor is the team's best talent, that's one thing. But if you don't think he's "good" then you have gone off the deep end.

[sixers23]

i was always team simmons but its funny to me how ingram was dominating this poll then we get number 1 and so many people flip lol

Maybe Im wrong, But I think the poll was actually reset after winning the lottery.

That's my point

[Philly Phanatic]

I think all the talk about Simmons's ability to shoot the ball is really over-blown. Let's hope the Sixers don't over think things.

This prospect review is REALLY ridiculous.....

"I think, he'll come in and play and help us."

"The knock on him is that he can't shoot the ball,"he just drives the ball to the basket and he doesn't need a shot. But he's so smart, he may learn from taking some mighty licks."

But when we look at him for the draft the biggest thing about him is, can he make a shot? We wonder what kind of shooter he'd be."

Read the COMPLETE prospect profile here: http://www.nbadraft.net/node/16360

After you read it you'll see how dumb this really is.