The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[dremill24]

Looking at who has the best arsenal of draft picks going forward:

Philadelphia - 8 firsts until 2019
2016: 1, 24, 26
2017: Philadelphia or Sacramento 1st and Lakers 1st
2018: Philadelphia 1st
2019: Philadelphia 1st and Sacramento 1st

Boston - 8 firsts until 2019
2016: 3, 16, 23
2017: Boston or Brooklyn 1st
2018: Boston 1st and Brooklyn 1st
2019: Boston 1st and Memphis 1st

Phoenix - 10 firsts until 2021
2016: 4, 13, 28
2017: Phoenix 1st
2018: Phoenix 1st and Miami 1st
2019: Phoenix 1st
2020: Phoenix 1st
2021: Phoenix 1st and Miami 1st

Why would you not use the same time frame for all 3 teams? If you add '20 and '21 to Philly and Boston then all 3 end up the same...

[rsavaj]

This is a painful exercise in tedium. Get you used to what you have now, nothing much is gunna change

lol what's the fun in that?

[bwgood77]

Knight, Len, Warren, #13 #28 for Butler

#4 for Noel

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
?
Noel

That's probably one of the more realistic trade proposals I've seen. I'd probably rather have Bender than Noel if he is there, but if he's not, I'd probably consider it.

Edit: Why not just send the Bulls the #4 and keep Len, in that case? Is Noel that much better than Alex? I don't think so. What we're really doing here is sending Knight, Warren, #4, #13 and #28 for Butler. That's a hell no in my book.

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

[saintEscaton]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

[JJ13]

That's probably one of the more realistic trade proposals I've seen. I'd probably rather have Bender than Noel if he is there, but if he's not, I'd probably consider it.

Edit: Why not just send the Bulls the #4 and keep Len, in that case? Is Noel that much better than Alex? I don't think so. What we're really doing here is sending Knight, Warren, #4, #13 and #28 for Butler. That's a hell no in my book.

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

Or sign Biyombo or Whiteside...If we draft Bender, a defensive center makes a lot of sense. Killer B's line-up

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
Bender
Biyombo!!

[Djedefre]

That's probably one of the more realistic trade proposals I've seen. I'd probably rather have Bender than Noel if he is there, but if he's not, I'd probably consider it.

Edit: Why not just send the Bulls the #4 and keep Len, in that case? Is Noel that much better than Alex? I don't think so. What we're really doing here is sending Knight, Warren, #4, #13 and #28 for Butler. That's a hell no in my book.

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

That would be pretty modest starting five for something more. What's Butler's motive to be a part of it?

[alphagorilla]

That's probably one of the more realistic trade proposals I've seen. I'd probably rather have Bender than Noel if he is there, but if he's not, I'd probably consider it.

Edit: Why not just send the Bulls the #4 and keep Len, in that case? Is Noel that much better than Alex? I don't think so. What we're really doing here is sending Knight, Warren, #4, #13 and #28 for Butler. That's a hell no in my book.

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

I think getting Noel and Butler would make a much better team on both defense and offense. Players would have a much clearer role and all of them are a young core to build around. The endless debate between Noel and Len will be forever on this board until we have a clear winner. For me I think Len has all the physical abilities to be better but he just doesn't understand basketball. He looks so lost when chandler isn't on the floor.

[rsavaj]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

Not totally disagreeing with you but even if that's the case, I think the #4 is worth more than Noel right now, so Philly would need to add some value there for me.

[TeamTragic]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

After last season Len regressed and Noel is hands down the better player.

[bwgood77]

Edit: Why not just send the Bulls the #4 and keep Len, in that case? Is Noel that much better than Alex? I don't think so. What we're really doing here is sending Knight, Warren, #4, #13 and #28 for Butler. That's a hell no in my book.

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

That would be pretty modest starting five for something more. What's Butler's motive to be a part of it?

I guess the motive would be that he got traded here and is under contract for awhile.

[bwgood77]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

Yeah that's why I said it depends on what you think Len's upside is. Despite Noel missing a year he's probably had more starts than Len and perhaps more minutes and was the better ranked prospect coming in. I kind of doubt either gets traded though.

[Djedefre]

Well I said it was realistic...plausible. As for Len vs Noel it depends on what you think Len's exact upside is and whether or not he can stay healthy, and as for Noel it more depends on health (though he has been healthy two years straight) and keeping his head on straight off the court.

And it also depends on offense vs defense. I think Len is capable of having a good offensive game as he has shown he can be money from the FT line when working with a decent PG. He is also a good rebounder.

But Noel is an elite defender, and also has the rebounding, and gets blocks and steals. For his age, Noel has had two of the top 4 DBPM's at his age ever.

I'm more vested with Len, and I hope he improves, so I'd be fine either way, and since the #4 is definitely worth more than Len, we could probably retain #13 and go with...

Bledsoe
Booker
Butler
13th pick/Telly or Leuer?
Len

With Telly and Leuer though, you'd probably want a guy like Noel in the middle on defense. That team would also have at least three good defenders, and maybe a 4th depending on who you got with the 13th pick.

That would be pretty modest starting five for something more. What's Butler's motive to be a part of it?

I guess the motive would be that he got traded here and is under contract for awhile.

In a hypo situation where our and C's offers are pretty much equal (as it appears now that they would be at best), from the franchise point of view, his attitude could be that extra wight on scale.

[bwgood77]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

After last season Len regressed and Noel is hands down the better player.

I think part of that is because Bledsoe was out and taking a back seat to Tyson quite a bit.....the Len regressing part that is.

[bwgood77]

That would be pretty modest starting five for something more. What's Butler's motive to be a part of it?

I guess the motive would be that he got traded here and is under contract for awhile.

In a hypo situation where our and C's offers are pretty much equal (as it appears now that they would be at best), from the franchise point of view, his attitude could be that extra wight on scale.

I doubt they would get his consultation in the matter. If they want picks and have a certain guy in mind they want in this draft I'm sure Boston would trump our offer though.

[Jarlaxle0204]

I don't understand how Len regressed. He played 9 more games (78 total). While his field goal percentage took a hit (.507 down to .423) he took way more shots (353 to 624). There was a major reason for that: We barely had a team out there. I watched nearly every game this season and there were large stretches of times when we wouldn't score at all during a 5 or 6 minute period. Once Bledsoe, Knight, and Warren went down we didn't really have any other players to score. Defenders can load up on Booker and Len basically. I'm not surprised at all his field goal percentage dipped a bit but with a healthier, more talented team I expect that to go back up again this year. He had some games where he really looked like it was all coming together. He went up in rebounding (6.57 to 7.61), assists (.46 to 1.24) as well. The only place I saw some downward trend was in relation with his blocks (down from 1.52 to .79) which may be because he was playing more help defense but I'm not really sure there. He's only played 3 years in the league and big men notoriously take longer to develop. I saw some nice chemistry between Booker and him during the latter part of the season and have high expectations for Len this upcoming season. I think we would really regret trading him now unless there's a surefire allstar deal.

[TeamTragic]

Yes Noel is in fact that much better than Len. Its a no contest anywher outside this forum

After last season Len regressed and Noel is hands down the better player.

I think part of that is because Bledsoe was out and taking a back seat to Tyson quite a bit.....the Len regressing part that is.

Maybe. I just remember how aggressive Len was during the previous season and now injury after injury with a massive drop off.

[Jarlaxle0204]

After last season Len regressed and Noel is hands down the better player.

I think part of that is because Bledsoe was out and taking a back seat to Tyson quite a bit.....the Len regressing part that is.

Maybe. I just remember how aggressive Len was during the previous season and now injury after injury with a massive drop off.

Injury after injury? He played all but 4 games last year and more than any of his previous years.

[rsavaj]

Lakers fan in the Randle thread on the trade board suggested 13/28/Chandler for Randle.

Yay or nay? I'm thinking yay at this point...not a slam dunk, but he's 21, he's already averaging a double double, and we don't have any long-term prospects at PF. Plus we get out of Chandler's contract.

That extra pick(28) is kind of bothering me, but those late picks rarely pan out anyways, and at least this way you have a young guy you know is productive at the NBA level. Booker/Warren/Randle/Len is a nice young core.

[saintEscaton]

I think part of that is because Bledsoe was out and taking a back seat to Tyson quite a bit.....the Len regressing part that is.

Maybe. I just remember how aggressive Len was during the previous season and now injury after injury with a massive drop off.

Injury after injury? He played all but 4 games last year and more than any of his previous years.

Its pretty sad when you call being healthy the highlight of your career thus far. To be fair Noel also took as step back from his monster rookie campaign, mostly due to playing out of position at the 4 covering Jah's behind but he is still a savant defending away from the rim and would l crack any rotation in the league. Len did too but only in spurts in the situational 'twin towers frontcourt but I'm tired of us making him out to be something he's notL a mythical floor space. He would brick open Js even when defenders dare him to take it sagging off Noel offense comes from putbacks and oops but he plays within his limitations, range is overstated need for a center. I know he was in a bad spot but his shooting percentage was 25th worst in NBA history. Len shot 52 percent within five feet of the basket in 2015-16, which placed him 34th out of 42 7-footers this year and dead last among 7-footers who attempted more than 2.5 shots per game from that range. He also ranked dead last among 7-footers who had at least one FGA per game from five to nine feet (29.5 percent), from 10 to 14 feet with a minimum of 0.5 FGA per game (30.6 percent), and from 15 to 19 feet with a minimum of one FGA per game (33.6 percent).Even when Bled/Knight were healthy he wasn't a capable rolling finisher because he couldn't catch the tight pocket pass and he has no touch around the basket or post repertoire. His only saving grace was his ability to get to the line but it seemed like he was tripping over his uncoordinated self rather than drawing contact in the paint.

[thamadkant]

I don't understand how Len regressed. He played 9 more games (78 total). While his field goal percentage took a hit (.507 down to .423) he took way more shots (353 to 624). There was a major reason for that: We barely had a team out there. I watched nearly every game this season and there were large stretches of times when we wouldn't score at all during a 5 or 6 minute period. Once Bledsoe, Knight, and Warren went down we didn't really have any other players to score. Defenders can load up on Booker and Len basically. I'm not surprised at all his field goal percentage dipped a bit but with a healthier, more talented team I expect that to go back up again this year. He had some games where he really looked like it was all coming together. He went up in rebounding (6.57 to 7.61), assists (.46 to 1.24) as well. The only place I saw some downward trend was in relation with his blocks (down from 1.52 to .79) which may be because he was playing more help defense but I'm not really sure there. He's only played 3 years in the league and big men notoriously take longer to develop. I saw some nice chemistry between Booker and him during the latter part of the season and have high expectations for Len this upcoming season. I think we would really regret trading him now unless there's a surefire allstar deal.

Len has regressed offensively IMO because the coach and system is using him as a mid range threath in the wnd half of the season mostly.

He isnt being setup as efficiently.


I think in a team where he is actually set up properly and with a passing PG.. He will put up numbers. The Suns system is terrible for players without a front face game that can shoot.