The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[Cactus Jack]

Batum would litrallly move our needle 0. If you like the inconsistency of boris diaw by all means.

Wow we really are echoing each other

I watched a ton of him in portland and although he was a fan favorite there was really no love lost when he left. Just draft Valentine if youre that desperate for a swiss army knife and save the 100m dollars.

Honestly I am terrified with what I hear coming out of the front office. If they make good on any of the FA moves I've heard them talking about I'm gunna puke.

That's fair. Your right he ain't worth the max. Good player. Won't carry a team.

[lilfishi22]

Was watching Inside NBA a while ago and Grant Hill said the vast majority of people in the NBA are not after the ring, they're after their paycheck.

Another guy said 20 teams know they aren't winning it, so what do you think they're all thinking about.

To me this off season is about whether Ryan McDonough chases his next paycheck or chases the ring.

If you look at all his moves so far, they have been low risk / low expectation moves with little downside to his resume.

Time to stop making fans the losers and give us some reason to believe you're chasing the ring like we are.

I disagree his moves have been low risk/low reward type moves. He's for sure swung for the fences with Lebron and LMA, which in my opinion are high risk and very high reward. He made a low risk/high reward move for Bledsoe and to a certaine extent, Knight (debateable). The only low risk/low reward type moves he's made are ones just to fill the roster.

I believe whole-heartedly that the most NBA GM's are aiming to build a championship roster. If they don't have the pieces this season, they are at least trying to build a foundation, to the best of their abilities, for a future team. I believe McD has tried to do that, even as recently as last off-season. There are definitely certain teams who have built teams and by build teams, I mean added to the roster just to make the salary minimum because it's the most profitable method of making money. But I think most GM's, even Philly's front office, have a long term view to build a championship roster through one method or another.

[letsgosuns]

With the current salary cap, I think Batum is a 10-12 million a year player. With next year's salary cap, I think he becomes a 14-15 million a year player. Anything more than that and he is overpaid. Unfortunately, since virtually every team in the league will have max salary cap space available, some team out there will give him a max. I certainly hope it is not the Suns. 4 years/60 million is the offer they should make if they want him. Think about how horrible Goran Dragic's contract looks right now. Batum does not provide much more of an impact to a team than Dragic does. Certainly not a first, second, or even third option on offense. I always pictured Batum as the fourth option on the Blazers when he was on their team. If he gets paid like a first option it will be nuts.

[lilfishi22]

Going after Horford, Batum and Barnes seem good ideas

I don't see us being very good even with 2 out of these 3 players. I think they are going to be very expensive but they are the type of players that may even struggle to be a second or third option. I think we already have a few guys who are at best a second option (Bledsoe, Knight, Booker in the future) and adding another second option wouldn't move the needle for us.

[saintEscaton]

For our own good, I hope we get sister kissed as suitors by every FA target we pursue, we will get sit downs as a formality. "at least we tried give us a medal". The brass desperately want to make a splash in some shape or form

[jcsunsfan]

There are, literally, no free agents for the Suns that make sense this summer besides cheap roster fillers. Durant is too old and not a possibility. Batum does not move the needle. Harrison Barnes might be a possibility if there is hidden star potential there playing behind Curry, Thompson and Green, AND if the money isn't silly.

Build through the draft or maybe a trade.

[Gorilla Warfare]

There are, literally, no free agents for the Suns that make sense this summer besides cheap roster fillers. Durant is too old and not a possibility. Batum does not move the needle. Harrison Barnes might be a possibility if there is hidden star potential there playing behind Curry, Thompson and Green, AND if the money isn't silly.

Build through the draft or maybe a trade.

There's plenty of talent available. Durant is 27 years old and averages more points per game than his age...He's not old.

Whiteside/Horford/DeRozan/Anderson/Crawford (for the bench) are all improvements on what we currently have.

[TeamTragic]

Okafor would go #1 in this draft quite easily. Bender's ceiling is #3 in a weak draft.

If he was a rookie, with the same hype he had as a rookie, he could go #1. If he re-entered the draft right now, with everything that is known about him right now, I don't think so. His D is horrible, same with his character and off-the-court issues.

To me, he is Armen Gilliam. Stat padder in meaningless play with no D.

You should actually watch him. Jahlil is arguably better as arookie than Armen ever was

Not a chance. I would take a risk with Bender before even considering Okafor.

[dremill24]

So if nobody "moves the needle"...can the needle be moved?

[TeamTragic]

Going after Horford, Batum and Barnes seem good ideas

I was also recently looking at Barnes #s. The guy averaged less than 12 pts, 5 rebounds per game this year. It's not like he was lights out from 3 either...he shot 38%. I know PER isn't a great advanced metric, but 15 is supposed to be an avg player and he had a 12.3 PER this year. He played a little under 31 minutes a game. He also started 59 games, and was probably more wide open for shots due to the attention others get...also had good passers finding him in Curry and Green. He also shot 46% from the field.

Conversely, TJ Warren played a little under 23 minutes per game. He scored 11 pts, over 3 boards a game. Over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. PER of 15.9.

TJ Warren has played a year and a half, and not much his first year, and of course injured most of his second, and Barnes has played 4, and arguably TJ is already better. The numbers point to that.

Plus, I don't think Barnes will be as good if he's not playing with Curry, Thompson and Green. Warren is only going to get better with more minutes and more refining of his game and defense.

If we go after a guy like Barnes, first of all I think it's a mistake and would likely be a massive overpay, but it's also kind of unfair to Warren, who has earned his chance and is already just about as good, if not better.

Here are their side by side #s this year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/RQwUX

More unfair to PJ Tucker who has put in the time and dedication for the last half decade to bring quality basketball entertainment to Suns fans.

Quality basketball entertainment?

With Noah saying he doesn't trust the front office (Bulls) maybe Jimmy Butler will demand a trade saying he doesn't trust the front office too. That might force them to trade him ASAP and getting the No 4 is a good starting package.
The Bled But Book will be a good nucleus to build around.

Do you remember who else said that he doesn't trust the front office?

There are, literally, no free agents for the Suns that make sense this summer besides cheap roster fillers. Durant is too old and not a possibility. Batum does not move the needle. Harrison Barnes might be a possibility if there is hidden star potential there playing behind Curry, Thompson and Green, AND if the money isn't silly.

Build through the draft or maybe a trade.

Batum would be the best we could this offseason. Horford would be a 50/50 shot when he can just collect a paycheck in Atlanta. Durant is not going anywhere. Let's be honest.

[letsgosuns]

Bottom line is no free agent besides Durant moves the needle. No one. Ten years ago there were a bunch of superstars in the league. Nowadays, there are very few. Next year, Westbrook, Curry, Griffin, and maybe Paul are the only free agents available that move the needle. What are the Suns' chances of getting any of those guys? Slim to none. The Suns best chance of getting a superstar is through the draft. And think about it. The draft is how the Thunder got Durant and Westbrook. The draft is how the Warriors got Curry. The draft is how the Clippers got Griffin. You also do not need to have the number one pick to get a superstar either. It certainly helps, but it is not mandatory.

[RaisingArizona]

Durant is old? Wut?

[RaisingArizona]

Would you trade 4 + 13 + Knight + Chandler (bad contract) for Okafor + 24 + 26?

Probably.

[Cactus Jack]

Durant is old? Wut?

27 must be old for a player nowadays

[saintEscaton]

In a heartbeat

[lilfishi22]

Not a chance. I would take a risk with Bender before even considering Okafor.

Okafor has some weaknesses (some may argue they are flaws) but we do know he has at least a few proven NBA-level skills. If he was to re-enter the draft, I still think he goes #3 or at least before Bender, even with all the character and off court issues.

I'm far from an Okafor apologist but he definitely came into the league with demonstrable skills which we've seen in the past will translate on an NBA level and be an impact. With Bender I see less of a polished product, less NBA level skills and less chance of being an impact, at least in the first 2-3 seasons. Whether Bender will ever put up above average stats in any meaningful category, we'll just have to wait and see but based on the unknowns, I can't see why Bender would be considered a better prospect than Okafor.

[RaisingArizona]

Oh, I def would. I just said probably because who knows what McD wants to do this offseason.

[bwgood77]

Gambo said on the radio yesterday that the Suns are willing to move the #4 pick but only for a "young star player." They are not willing to take a player and move back a few spots.

Yeah, that's what they should say regardless. I think we've learned you can't take what McD says or is leaked at face value.

We don't know who he likes though. Hopefully he has the exact same opinions as I do, but that's unlikely, though the last two drafts I was very happy with the pick in the lottery.

[bwgood77]

With Noah saying he doesn't trust the front office (Bulls) maybe Jimmy Butler will demand a trade saying he doesn't trust the front office too. That might force them to trade him ASAP and getting the No 4 is a good starting package.
The Bled But Book will be a good nucleus to build around.

I think it's pretty clear Butler doesn't trust the front office. None of that team probably does. They slowly go from best record in the east, and then when they lose Rose, still compete fairly well because the reason was always Thibs and the D, and then Thibs, who the players loved, had a falling out, or probably a better way of saying it is, never got along with the front office, always clashing heads, and they got rid of him, brought in Hoiberg, and the players were not pleased, didn't like the changes....Hoiberg's kind of had to adapt his game plan because of it, and mgmt is sticking with him (they pretty much have to after convincing the owner to give him his 5/25 deal).

I'm pretty sure they will move some people.

[bwgood77]

I think #4 and Knight for Okafor is too much. That is not because I value Knight so highly. I am not that high on Okafor. I would do Knight and #13 for Okafor. Okafor still has bust potential. His rim protection and D are horrible for a center in today's nba.

He's not a center imo. Would love to get him though. 4+13 is totally worth it from my pov.

Jah literally has no bust potential due to his polish worst case he is a 20+ PPG scorer on cloe to 60% true shooting, he has the highest floor out of anyone in the 2013 class. He will end up somewhere between Brook Lopez and Boogie. Rim protection is more than just getting helpside blocks, he can body up one on one and alter shots, holding opponent's FG% with 10 ft to -5.6% less than seasonn average, thats better than DeAndre Jordan . Philly's Dleague midget guards couldn't contain dribble pentration and Jah was in foul toruble every game, Noel rgeressed and their DRtg went from middle of pack last season to the bottom.The problem is finding a Stretch 4 with the defensive versatility to make up for his deficiencies against the PnR/hedging the ball screener

Didn't he average like 1.2 blocks? That's really not bad for a rookie. Actually pretty good. I remember halfway through last college season I thought he was the no brainer #1, until Towns emerged. I loved KP as well, because, well, you know I love those stretch 4s that can block shots.

Are people certain he is on the table? I'm not totally sure why without seeing Embiid play. I know him and Noel don't totally mesh well, but they do have opposite strengths and easily could be mostly staggered and provide injury protection.

Colangelo is not really a guy to trade players with production for draft picks. I know they trade guys with major off the court incidents, but I think Okafor's was blown out of proportion and not that big of a deal. I think it isn't much different than Barkley back in the day...fan's heckling going a little too far with a frustrated player....not an excuse, but understandable to some extent to me if it only happens once.