#3 pick

[Kenhov]

A scenario from the Trade board

To Philadelphia (Trade #1)
-#3 pick (Hield)
-#5 pick (Murray/Dunn)
-#45 pick (Draft & Stash)

To Boston (Trade #3, #16, #22, #45, 2018 Brooklyn pick, 2019 protected pick, Hunter)
-#1 pick

To Minnesota (Trade #5)
-R.J. Hunter
-#16 pick (SG)
-#22 pick (SF)
-2018 Brooklyn 1st round pick
-2019 Boston 1st round pick (lottery protected)

[celticfan42487]

I'd be on board with that.

But I struggle to see the next step for our team with a Noel trade.

If we're trying to maximize the remaining cheap IT window, bringing in a star-level offensive player (or two) is crucial, and #3 is our best tool to do that.

Looking at free agency, the offensive stars are very few. DeRozan is perhaps the only theoretically obtainable one and he's a terrible fit for our shooting starved line-up. Ditto Wade. Pau might still have some juice, but he plays the same position as Noel.

Thus I think it's best to use #3 in a trade for an offensive star - Love, Hayward, Cousins, maybe Melo - and use free agency, lesser assets to address the defensive need.

Smart for Noel is the deal that makes most sense to me.

Dude no way that I'd want to trade Smart for Noel. Noel's offensive game is limited to dunks and putbacks and will never improve, unlike Smart, who at least has something that resembles a jumpshot and can improve offensively. Even at this point in their careers, I still think that Smart is worth more than Noel. But yeah everything else you said I'm completely on board with

You've got to factor in positions. Noel is a closer to passable offensively for a 5 than Smart is as a 1. You can be a starting big on a championship team with no offense outside of dunks and putbacks (Andrew Bogut, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman spring to mind). But a PG who struggles to hit 40/30 shooting splits, barely cracks 4apg per 36 and can't break his man down off the dribble?

I think Smart will eventually improve offensively to a passable level, but I don't expect him to exceed Noel's relative offensive level at his position.

We have to factor in that Nerles Noel is 10x the player Smart is too.

He's Tyson Chandler on offense and a potential 10 rpg, 2 block, 2 steals franchise anchoring defender at the Center spot.

So far in his first two seasons he's averaged 8 rpg, and 2 steals and 2 blocks (just a shade under in both at 1.7/1.8)

If I'm philly, Noel is the last player I'd trade. And he's infinitely more valuable to any team than Smart is because you can play him and he won't hurt you on offense and he's absolutely transform your team defensively.


I mean just let this factor in... when you're comparing Smart and Noel, in about the same minutes Noel soundly gets more steals per game from the Center position than Smart does playing PG/SG. Noel has a much higher impact on a team defensively. And offensively... well we all know the story there.

I would much rather trade for Noel than Okafor but unfortunately the organization is too strong on Noel from reports and he is currently untouchable.

[Homerclease]

Dude no way that I'd want to trade Smart for Noel. Noel's offensive game is limited to dunks and putbacks and will never improve, unlike Smart, who at least has something that resembles a jumpshot and can improve offensively. Even at this point in their careers, I still think that Smart is worth more than Noel. But yeah everything else you said I'm completely on board with

You've got to factor in positions. Noel is a closer to passable offensively for a 5 than Smart is as a 1. You can be a starting big on a championship team with no offense outside of dunks and putbacks (Andrew Bogut, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman spring to mind). But a PG who struggles to hit 40/30 shooting splits, barely cracks 4apg per 36 and can't break his man down off the dribble?

I think Smart will eventually improve offensively to a passable level, but I don't expect him to exceed Noel's relative offensive level at his position.

We have to factor in that Nerles Noel is 10x the player Smart is too.

He's Tyson Chandler on offense and a potential 10 rpg, 2 block, 2 steals franchise anchoring defender at the Center spot.

So far in his first two seasons he's averaged 8 rpg, and 2 steals and 2 blocks (just a shade under in both at 1.7/1.8)

If I'm philly, Noel is the last player I'd trade. And he's infinitely more valuable to any team than Smart is because you can play him and he won't hurt you on offense and he's absolutely transform your team defensively.

How did philly rank defensively this season?

[celticfan42487]

You've got to factor in positions. Noel is a closer to passable offensively for a 5 than Smart is as a 1. You can be a starting big on a championship team with no offense outside of dunks and putbacks (Andrew Bogut, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman spring to mind). But a PG who struggles to hit 40/30 shooting splits, barely cracks 4apg per 36 and can't break his man down off the dribble?

I think Smart will eventually improve offensively to a passable level, but I don't expect him to exceed Noel's relative offensive level at his position.

We have to factor in that Nerles Noel is 10x the player Smart is too.

He's Tyson Chandler on offense and a potential 10 rpg, 2 block, 2 steals franchise anchoring defender at the Center spot.

So far in his first two seasons he's averaged 8 rpg, and 2 steals and 2 blocks (just a shade under in both at 1.7/1.8)

If I'm philly, Noel is the last player I'd trade. And he's infinitely more valuable to any team than Smart is because you can play him and he won't hurt you on offense and he's absolutely transform your team defensively.

How did philly rank defensively this season?

Not sure, how many players play in basketball for a team? That said if you want to look at individual stats you'll see

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

out of the 450 or so players in the NBA Noel is:

top 15 in FG%
top 15 steals per game
top 16 blocks per game
top 10 in steal percentage
top 20 in block percentage
top 10 in defensive box plug/minus

You look for Smart in the leaders in the NBA, and he's in one spot. #19 in steal percentage... which Noel is currently ranked 6 in that category.


Oh, and this was a down year for Noel being forced to play with Okafor who is just truly terrible defensively at the 4, and a horrible fit offensively. As a rookie, Noel was in the top 10 in steals percentage, block percentage, defensive rating, ranked 11th in defensive win shares, and top 5 in the nba in defensive box plus/minus. (again, in that year the only place smart stood out was in steal percentage well below Noel). On the same crap team... just without having to play with Okafor.

Legit if the Sixers trade Okafor and put an actual 4 who can defense next to him, you should see him go right back to being one of the absolutet best defenders in the NBA. Not just one of the best Centers, best defenders.

[ddb]

A scenario from the Trade board

To Philadelphia (Trade #1)
-#3 pick (Hield)
-#5 pick (Murray/Dunn)
-#45 pick (Draft & Stash)

To Boston (Trade #3, #16, #22, #45, 2018 Brooklyn pick, 2019 protected pick, Hunter)
-#1 pick

To Minnesota (Trade #5)
-R.J. Hunter
-#16 pick (SG)
-#22 pick (SF)
-2018 Brooklyn 1st round pick
-2019 Boston 1st round pick (lottery protected)

I am not sure why the Celtics or Wolves do this deal.

[Homerclease]

We have to factor in that Nerles Noel is 10x the player Smart is too.

He's Tyson Chandler on offense and a potential 10 rpg, 2 block, 2 steals franchise anchoring defender at the Center spot.

So far in his first two seasons he's averaged 8 rpg, and 2 steals and 2 blocks (just a shade under in both at 1.7/1.8)

If I'm philly, Noel is the last player I'd trade. And he's infinitely more valuable to any team than Smart is because you can play him and he won't hurt you on offense and he's absolutely transform your team defensively.

How did philly rank defensively this season?

Not sure, how many players play in basketball for a team? That said if you want to look at individual stats you'll see

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

out of the 450 or so players in the NBA Noel is:

top 15 in FG%
top 15 steals per game
top 16 blocks per game
top 10 in steal percentage
top 20 in block percentage
top 10 in defensive box plug/minus

You look for Smart in the leaders in the NBA, and he's in one spot. #19 in steal percentage... which Noel is currently ranked 6 in that category.


Oh, and this was a down year for Noel being forced to play with Okafor who is just truly terrible defensively at the 4, and a horrible fit offensively. As a rookie, Noel was in the top 10 in steals percentage, block percentage, defensive rating, ranked 11th in defensive win shares, and top 5 in the nba in defensive box plus/minus. (again, in that year the only place smart stood out was in steal percentage well below Noel). On the same crap team... just without having to play with Okafor.

Legit if the Sixers trade Okafor and put an actual 4 who can defense next to him, you should see him go right back to being one of the absolutet best defenders in the NBA. Not just one of the best Centers, best defenders.

But he didn't transform their defense. I'm not arguing that Smart is a superior prospect in any way but I don't think the gap is as vast as you're making it sound nor do I think either player is anything more than that at this stage of their careers. They are both prospects, and Noel is about to be paid gigantic dollars for his potential.

[celticfan42487]

How did philly rank defensively this season?

Not sure, how many players play in basketball for a team? That said if you want to look at individual stats you'll see

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

out of the 450 or so players in the NBA Noel is:

top 15 in FG%
top 15 steals per game
top 16 blocks per game
top 10 in steal percentage
top 20 in block percentage
top 10 in defensive box plug/minus

You look for Smart in the leaders in the NBA, and he's in one spot. #19 in steal percentage... which Noel is currently ranked 6 in that category.


Oh, and this was a down year for Noel being forced to play with Okafor who is just truly terrible defensively at the 4, and a horrible fit offensively. As a rookie, Noel was in the top 10 in steals percentage, block percentage, defensive rating, ranked 11th in defensive win shares, and top 5 in the nba in defensive box plus/minus. (again, in that year the only place smart stood out was in steal percentage well below Noel). On the same crap team... just without having to play with Okafor.

Legit if the Sixers trade Okafor and put an actual 4 who can defense next to him, you should see him go right back to being one of the absolute best defenders in the NBA. Not just one of the best Centers, best defenders.

But he didn't transform their defense. I'm not arguing that Smart is a superior prospect in any way but I don't think the gap is as vast as you're making it sound nor do I think either player is anything more than that at this stage of their careers. They are both prospects, and Noel is about to be paid gigantic dollars for his potential.

I just don't know how you can say that.

Listen, I'm not saying he's Kevin Garnett. I'm saying defensively he's a franchise player. Basically he's KG defensively with about half the rebounding ability (KG used to pull down 12-14 rpg as absurd as it sounds) and half the ability to guard post up opportunities (Noel's only weakness defensively is he's just an average post defender in one on one situations). Just because he didn't carry them to wins, and he suffered from playing with Okafor and the rest of the Sixers... you can't deny what he's done.

He absolutely transformed their defense and carries it. And as a rookie he was arguably the defensive player of the year in the NBA. Again, top 10 in almost every stat including defensive wins shares and top 5 in defensive box plus/minus.

Now games aren't played with analytics I agree... but when they're that shocking they certainly tell a story. And he's everything you could want in the modern game when it comes to help defense, impact turnover creator, and legendary pick and roll defense.

But I mean he'll never be the franchise for any team. He is only an ally opp offensive player and that's it.

Put it another way, he'll never be the face of the franchise, yet he'll be just a tier below that.

I'd consider if a fair trade theoretically if the Celtics had the #1 overall this year and traded it for Noel straight up (which is as much as me saying I don't think Simmons or Ingram will ever be a franchise player but can see how someone might think they have that potential in them).

[Homerclease]

Not sure, how many players play in basketball for a team? That said if you want to look at individual stats you'll see

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_leaders.html

out of the 450 or so players in the NBA Noel is:

top 15 in FG%
top 15 steals per game
top 16 blocks per game
top 10 in steal percentage
top 20 in block percentage
top 10 in defensive box plug/minus

You look for Smart in the leaders in the NBA, and he's in one spot. #19 in steal percentage... which Noel is currently ranked 6 in that category.


Oh, and this was a down year for Noel being forced to play with Okafor who is just truly terrible defensively at the 4, and a horrible fit offensively. As a rookie, Noel was in the top 10 in steals percentage, block percentage, defensive rating, ranked 11th in defensive win shares, and top 5 in the nba in defensive box plus/minus. (again, in that year the only place smart stood out was in steal percentage well below Noel). On the same crap team... just without having to play with Okafor.

Legit if the Sixers trade Okafor and put an actual 4 who can defense next to him, you should see him go right back to being one of the absolute best defenders in the NBA. Not just one of the best Centers, best defenders.

But he didn't transform their defense. I'm not arguing that Smart is a superior prospect in any way but I don't think the gap is as vast as you're making it sound nor do I think either player is anything more than that at this stage of their careers. They are both prospects, and Noel is about to be paid gigantic dollars for his potential.

I just don't know how you can say that.

Listen, I'm not saying he's Kevin Garnett. I'm saying defensively he's a franchise player. Basically he's KG defensively with about half the rebounding ability (KG used to pull down 12-14 rpg as absurd as it sounds) and half the ability to guard post up opportunities (Noel's only weakness defensively is he's just an average post defender in one on one situations). Just because he didn't carry them to wins, and he suffered from playing with Okafor and the rest of the Sixers... you can't deny what he's done.

He absolutely transformed their defense and carries it. And as a rookie he was arguably the defensive player of the year in the NBA. Again, top 10 in almost every stat including defensive wins shares and top 5 in defensive box plus/minus.

Now games aren't played with analytics I agree... but when they're that shocking they certainly tell a story. And he's everything you could want in the modern game when it comes to help defense, impact turnover creator, and legendary pick and roll defense.

But I mean he'll never be the franchise for any team. He is only an ally opp offensive player and that's it.

Put it another way, he'll never be the face of the franchise, yet he'll be just a tier below that.

I'd consider if a fair trade theoretically if the Celtics had the #1 overall this year and traded it for Noel straight up (which is as much as me saying I don't think Simmons or Ingram will ever be a franchise player but can see how someone might think they have that potential in them).

Philidelphia was one of the worst defensive teams in the entire NBA. Nothing Noel has done so far has translated into any wins for them whatsoever. At this point he's a role player with untapped potential that's about to cost 20 million per year. I'd trade pick 16 for him, no way would I trade 3

[Kenhov]

I would trade 3 for Okafor.

[Kenhov]

Another steal from the trade forum.

Denver Trades: Danilo Gallinari, #7, #19

Boston Trades: #3, #16, James Young

We get Gallinari and pickup someone who drops like Hield, and then choose someone like Criss or Bembry with the 19.

[TheMartian]

All this talk about us selecting Bender at #3 when the Lakers are being rumored to select him at #2 over Ingram. Is this good or bad for us? Who would you prefer over Ingram and Bender?

http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-could-select-dragan-bender-with-second-overall-draft-pick/2016/05/23/

[Ed Pinkney]

All this talk about us selecting Bender at #3 when the Lakers are being rumored to select him at #2 over Ingram. Is this good or bad for us? Who would you prefer over Ingram and Bender?

http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-could-select-dragan-bender-with-second-overall-draft-pick/2016/05/23/

Bender seems to be the pick for me but if for whatever reason Simmons or Ingram was to drop then the Celtics should be rubbing their hands. I think either would be a win.

[Chris4Vikes]

All this talk about us selecting Bender at #3 when the Lakers are being rumored to select him at #2 over Ingram. Is this good or bad for us? Who would you prefer over Ingram and Bender?

http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-could-select-dragan-bender-with-second-overall-draft-pick/2016/05/23/

Bender seems to be the pick for me but if for whatever reason Simmons or Ingram was to drop then the Celtics should be rubbing their hands. I think either would be a win.

Bender or Ingram is win/win. And Ainge does not have to torture himself. Celtics will have easiest decision on draft night with their top pick.

[Chris4Vikes]

Another steal from the trade forum.

Denver Trades: Danilo Gallinari, #7, #19

Boston Trades: #3, #16, James Young

We get Gallinari and pickup someone who drops like Hield, and then choose someone like Criss or Bembry with the 19.

I hate this for Boston. Only way I want Gallo is through free agency. Not giving up a top pick or young player.

[Maple Green]

Kenhov wrote:
Another steal from the trade forum.

Denver Trades: Danilo Gallinari, #7, #19

Boston Trades: #3, #16, James Young

We get Gallinari and pickup someone who drops like Hield, and then choose someone like Criss or Bembry with the 19.


Denver add Jokic

[EJay33]

If the Lakers really like Bender, could offer up #3 plus some other first-round picks in exchange for 2. Lakers have traded two future first round picks and are in the middle of a rebuild. It' sounds too good to be true that the Lakers could bungle the #2 pick in a 2 player draft but if they are thinking about it Boston might be able to help them restock their cupboard of draft picks.

[DK-All Day]

If the Lakers really like Bender, could offer up #3 plus some other first-round picks in exchange for 2. Lakers have traded two future first round picks and are in the middle of a rebuild. It' sounds too good to be true that the Lakers could bungle the #2 pick in a 2 player draft but if they are thinking about it Boston might be able to help them restock their cupboard of draft picks.

Unnecessary. Just take whoever is there between Bender and Ingram. If LA likes Ingram, fine. If LA likes Bender, fine. The Celtics are walking away with a good player regardless. No point in giving up any assets.

[Celts17Pride]

My draft plan is draft Murray or Hield at the 3rd pick

Trade Marcus Smart and the 16th pick to the Kings for the 8th pick and then select Marquese Chriss

[ddb]

Another steal from the trade forum.

Denver Trades: Danilo Gallinari, #7, #19

Boston Trades: #3, #16, James Young

We get Gallinari and pickup someone who drops like Hield, and then choose someone like Criss or Bembry with the 19.

Not bad, not bad.

Gallinari, #7 we grab Hield if he slips, and #19 isn't much different then #16...We keep #23, #31, #35 for other type moves....this could lead to other deals.

[ddb]

My draft plan is draft Murray or Hield at the 3rd pick

Trade Marcus Smart and the 16th pick to the Kings for the 8th pick and then select Marquese Chriss

I think you're underestimating the pressure Danny/Wyc are under to get the Celtics to the next level where they can compete with the Cavs...Brad is entering year #4...it's time. he needs more talent on the roster. He's maxed out what he's had... now it's time for Danny to push some of his chips to the center of the table and bet on his 3 Queens....If we had #1 pick Danny would push chips to the center with a full-house.....but his hand is still good with 3 Q's.. he can still win the hand.
I'm not suggesting Danny throw all his assets away for 1 All-Star player....But I am suggesting that Danny will be a lot more aggressive and less patient this offseason.

To your point, though......In the grand scheme of things these 3 BK picks could shape up the Celtics for the next decade or more. 25 years from now we could be talking about how we landed Bender, Giles, Ayton and won 3 titles because of the BK trade.....That's the counter argument to pushing all chips forward for a Jimmy Butler, then signing Al Horford where at the end of the day MAYBE we go to the finals once but never win Banner 18...