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Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

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Simmons or Ingram

Simmons
137
56%
Ingram
106
44%
 
Total votes: 243

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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1461 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 8:00 pm

FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:OK, you guys. Then rattle all the off court issues and other things that "Simmons" has brought on himself that you know are facts. Not the negative BS speculation that people are throwing out there and people are running with as fact.

I've seen it before. Put guy on pedestal, prop him up awhile, out him under the microscope and then take joy in tearing him down. It's the American way. Ugh.


Yea, I'm not going to hunt down articles for you. They are all in this thread.

And if you're expecting me to feel bad for a guy on the cusp of being a multimillionaire for playing the game of basketball, then you're mistaken. Especially because he's going to my favorite team and the only sensible thing a team could do is put his risks under a microscope, appreciate his assets, and weigh if it's all worth it.

If he is truly hurt over criticisms of him, then he definitely shouldn't be the number 1 pick.


What are you talking about? Who said or implied we have to feel bad for anyone? Who said Ben Simmons is hurt over any criticism?


Your last sentence which showed how emotionally invested you are in Simmons because I, rightfully, criticize him a little. He's a massive investment for our team. Who cares if we put him under a microscope?
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1462 » by Sixersftw » Wed May 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Trust me, you're preaching to the choir on this front. If Ben Simmons is running a ponzi scheme on the side while averaging a triple double for the Sixers, I won't care*. However, at the moment, he's a prospect so we are projecting what he could become. He dropped out of college after he "got his". The second his behavior affects the team is when I care. I'm certainly not cheering for these guys as people (although it is nice when they are a good person).

*Unless he gets caught or I'm involved.


I don't think it's fair to say he dropped out of college after he "got his." Simmons didn't attend LSU because of it's amazing academic reputation and beautiful campus. He went to college because it was a prerequisite to landing his job. I don't think anyone assumed he was going to do the BS were he pretended to love the school and wanted to go back that everyone else does every year. There was no pretense that he was going to LSU to better himself academically or better the school.

Also, I don't really get too far into the psychoanalysis with these kids anymore. I'm not sure if I was wrong or right on Boogie being an ass, depends on the day (way wrong on him panning out, tip of the hate Negrodamus). I thought Jah was a choir boy and then he goes all Mad Max. Unless these kids have committed some act of moral turpitude I think it's unfair to make any assumptions.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1463 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 8:04 pm

FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:
Who knows though? Maybe he was absolutely disgusted by the program, and how they handled things and didn't care about this. We really don't know.

I am very used to rooting for sports heroes that are bad guys, or being fans of musicians that are complete idiots. How about someone like Adrian Peterson with multiple baby mama's, beating kids, having one of his kids beaten to death that he had hardly even met before, let alone been there to protect the kid? Does that change how you root for him as a football player?

How about a Musician that you love the music from spouting off about BS political statements that you are completely against? Does that keep you from listening to the songs?

An actor like Tom Cruise who pretty much seems like a crazy person, doesn't keep me from liking his movies.

Who these guys are off the field is really irrelevant until it affects their play, within reason at least.


Trust me, you're preaching to the choir on this front. If Ben Simmons is running a ponzi scheme on the side while averaging a triple double for the Sixers, I won't care*. However, at the moment, he's a prospect so we are projecting what he could become. He dropped out of college after he "got his". The second his behavior affects the team is when I care. I'm certainly not cheering for these guys as people (although it is nice when they are a good person).

*Unless he gets caught or I'm involved.


Are you saying Ben Simmons is not a good person? As I mentioned before hundreds of guys in both football and basketball finish their season and are done with school and focus on the combine and work outs. Why are you shocked?

The NCAA and the Universities make hundreds of millions of dollars off these guys. Screw them.


Nope, I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm responding to Eric's post.

I think you'd be surprised in how many basketball players are up and leaving before their combine and workouts for the exact reason I'm stating. Football is a different situation all together because their season ends around Christmas break so the Spring semester is superfluous to the teams APR. You're not dropping out mid semester in that situation. Ben did. It will hurt LSU's APR.

And I'm not talking about LSU or the NCAA and how much money they are making. I'm talking about leaving the program high and dry because Simmons doesn't feel like finishing classes. Their revenue, even how it pertains to Simmons's existence within the program, is all besides the point.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1464 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 8:09 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Yea, I'm not going to hunt down articles for you. They are all in this thread.

And if you're expecting me to feel bad for a guy on the cusp of being a multimillionaire for playing the game of basketball, then you're mistaken. Especially because he's going to my favorite team and the only sensible thing a team could do is put his risks under a microscope, appreciate his assets, and weigh if it's all worth it.

If he is truly hurt over criticisms of him, then he definitely shouldn't be the number 1 pick.


What are you talking about? Who said or implied we have to feel bad for anyone? Who said Ben Simmons is hurt over any criticism?


Your last sentence which showed how emotionally invested you are in Simmons because I, rightfully, criticize him a little. He's a massive investment for our team. Who cares if we put him under a microscope?


My last sentence had nothing to do with hurting Ben Simmons' feelings and all to do with the media in this country and now the social media nerds who prop somebody up, pick apart their faults and tear them down in all professions. Nothing more than that.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1465 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 8:15 pm

Sixersftw wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Trust me, you're preaching to the choir on this front. If Ben Simmons is running a ponzi scheme on the side while averaging a triple double for the Sixers, I won't care*. However, at the moment, he's a prospect so we are projecting what he could become. He dropped out of college after he "got his". The second his behavior affects the team is when I care. I'm certainly not cheering for these guys as people (although it is nice when they are a good person).

*Unless he gets caught or I'm involved.


I don't think it's fair to say he dropped out of college after he "got his." Simmons didn't attend LSU because of it's amazing academic reputation and beautiful campus. He went to college because it was a prerequisite to landing his job. I don't think anyone assumed he was going to do the BS were he pretended to love the school and wanted to go back that everyone else does every year. There was no pretense that he was going to LSU to better himself academically or better the school.

Also, I don't really get too far into the psychoanalysis with these kids anymore. I'm not sure if I was wrong or right on Boogie being an ass, depends on the day (way wrong on him panning out, tip of the hate Negrodamus). I thought Jah was a choir boy and then he goes all Mad Max. Unless these kids have committed some act of moral turpitude I think it's unfair to make any assumptions.


I don't understand why he doesn't go play overseas for a season then? It's not like there aren't other avenues for athletes to make it to the NBA. In fact, he'd make some money while being a pro elsewhere.

You go to college to be a student athlete. Whether the system is stupid, broken, corrupt, whatever is beyond the point here. Every organization I've been a part of, I usually want to leave it better, or at least the same, as when I joined it. Simmons used LSU to get through the mandatory "one year removed from HS" rule, and will now have them in a academic situation for dropping out.

To relate it to the Sixers, what if he uses this organization to put up hollow numbers so his second contract in LA is massive? Rudy Gay comes to mind. All speculation, but worth considering.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1466 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 8:19 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Trust me, you're preaching to the choir on this front. If Ben Simmons is running a ponzi scheme on the side while averaging a triple double for the Sixers, I won't care*. However, at the moment, he's a prospect so we are projecting what he could become. He dropped out of college after he "got his". The second his behavior affects the team is when I care. I'm certainly not cheering for these guys as people (although it is nice when they are a good person).

*Unless he gets caught or I'm involved.


Are you saying Ben Simmons is not a good person? As I mentioned before hundreds of guys in both football and basketball finish their season and are done with school and focus on the combine and work outs. Why are you shocked?

The NCAA and the Universities make hundreds of millions of dollars off these guys. Screw them.


Nope, I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm responding to Eric's post.

I think you'd be surprised in how many basketball players are up and leaving before their combine and workouts for the exact reason I'm stating. Football is a different situation all together because their season ends around Christmas break so the Spring semester is superfluous to the teams APR. You're not dropping out mid semester in that situation. Ben did. It will hurt LSU's APR.

And I'm not talking about LSU or the NCAA and how much money they are making. I'm talking about leaving the program high and dry because Simmons doesn't feel like finishing classes. Their revenue, even how it pertains to Simmons's existence within the program, is all besides the point.


Really? You want me to feel sorry for LSU? I mean seriously you just asked me if I want you to feel sorry for Simmons and you bring up this junk.

They knew what they were getting in to. Simmons would've went straight to the NBA if he had the choice. LSU is more than happy with what they got out of Ben Simmons tournament berth or not. Sold out arena and all their games were on national TV after the New Year and probably before that. Every one. That doesn't happen without Ben Simmons. Talk about making money and free publicity for the school. Boo how their APR will be hurt.

Do you think Lebron would've finished his spring semester? No chance. That turned out alright.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1467 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 8:23 pm

FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
Are you saying Ben Simmons is not a good person? As I mentioned before hundreds of guys in both football and basketball finish their season and are done with school and focus on the combine and work outs. Why are you shocked?

The NCAA and the Universities make hundreds of millions of dollars off these guys. Screw them.


Nope, I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm responding to Eric's post.

I think you'd be surprised in how many basketball players are up and leaving before their combine and workouts for the exact reason I'm stating. Football is a different situation all together because their season ends around Christmas break so the Spring semester is superfluous to the teams APR. You're not dropping out mid semester in that situation. Ben did. It will hurt LSU's APR.

And I'm not talking about LSU or the NCAA and how much money they are making. I'm talking about leaving the program high and dry because Simmons doesn't feel like finishing classes. Their revenue, even how it pertains to Simmons's existence within the program, is all besides the point.


Really? You want me to feel sorry for LSU? I mean seriously you just asked me if I want you to feel sorry for Simmons and you bring up this junk.

They knew what they were getting in to. Simmons would've went straight to the NBA if he had the choice. LSU is more than happy with what they got out of Ben Simmons tournament berth or not. Sold out arena and all their games were on national TV after the New Year and probably before that. Every one. That doesn't happen without Ben Simmons. Talk about making money and free publicity for the school. Boo how their APR will be hurt.

Do you think Lebron would've finished his spring semester? No chance. That turned out alright.


Nope, not asking you to feel bad for them. I'd rather you feel bad for the players vying for the same situation he's entering or his coach that still goes out on a limb for him despite him giving up on the season and putting them in a nightmare APR situation. They would be the ones it affects. But since they don't have anymore 6'10 point fowards with elite vision on the roster, you'll stop caring about LSU, much like Simmons has.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1468 » by Sixersftw » Wed May 25, 2016 8:38 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I don't understand why he doesn't go play overseas for a season then? It's not like there aren't other avenues for athletes to make it to the NBA. In fact, he'd make some money while being a pro elsewhere.

You go to college to be a student athlete. Whether the system is stupid, broken, corrupt, whatever is beyond the point here. Every organization I've been a part of, I usually want to leave it better, or at least the same, as when I joined it. Simmons used LSU to get through the mandatory "one year removed from HS" rule, and will now have them in a academic situation for dropping out.

To relate it to the Sixers, what if he uses this organization to put up hollow numbers so his second contract in LA is massive? Rudy Gay comes to mind. All speculation, but worth considering.


Well assuming his motivation is purely financial, it makes more sense to play in the USA. Playing college looses Simmons lets say 2 Mil in money overseas but every single one of his LSU games is televised, he is mention on ESPN after each and every one of those games and during their college bball shows. He becomes a bigger public figure which enables him to move more shoes quicker and get more lucrative advertisement deals.

Not everyone thinks like that when it comes to organizations. The student athlete designation obligating you to some allegiance to the school is a bit off. I participated in sports because I love the game(s) not because I was passionate about their program initially. I don't think that's a bad way of thinking.

I don't think what he did at LSU is necessarily indicative of what he will always do. I went to college for 4 years and then left to get a job. Then I left that job to get a law degree. Maybe every 3-4 years I'll leave a situation for a better situation or a potential more lucrative situation? I don't think it extrapolates like that.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1469 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 8:40 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Nope, I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm responding to Eric's post.

I think you'd be surprised in how many basketball players are up and leaving before their combine and workouts for the exact reason I'm stating. Football is a different situation all together because their season ends around Christmas break so the Spring semester is superfluous to the teams APR. You're not dropping out mid semester in that situation. Ben did. It will hurt LSU's APR.

And I'm not talking about LSU or the NCAA and how much money they are making. I'm talking about leaving the program high and dry because Simmons doesn't feel like finishing classes. Their revenue, even how it pertains to Simmons's existence within the program, is all besides the point.


Really? You want me to feel sorry for LSU? I mean seriously you just asked me if I want you to feel sorry for Simmons and you bring up this junk.

They knew what they were getting in to. Simmons would've went straight to the NBA if he had the choice. LSU is more than happy with what they got out of Ben Simmons tournament berth or not. Sold out arena and all their games were on national TV after the New Year and probably before that. Every one. That doesn't happen without Ben Simmons. Talk about making money and free publicity for the school. Boo how their APR will be hurt.

Do you think Lebron would've finished his spring semester? No chance. That turned out alright.


Nope, not asking you to feel bad for them. I'd rather you feel bad for the players vying for the same situation he's entering or his coach that still goes out on a limb for him despite him giving up on the season and putting them in a nightmare APR situation. They would be the ones it affects. But since they don't have anymore 6'10 point fowards with elite vision on the roster, you'll stop caring about LSU, much like Simmons has.



A bit too much drama there . One year of Ben Simmons isn't going to put LSU into a "nightmare APR situation". Isn't it weighted out over a certain number of years? If they have issues it's on way more guys than Ben Simmons.

There were two guys that left early last year. Are you sure they stayed in school the whole semester? Did they negatively affect it?

And why are you singling out Ben Simmons for leaving school before the semester? It happens all the time all around college basketball. Tear him down!

And to be honest I don't care about LSU basketball. Watched then when Shaq and Chris Jackson were there and last season. That's about it.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1470 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 8:50 pm

Phiphan, you deleted it, but yes, I think we have bottomed out. Not that these two responses to me aren't worthy of a rebuttal, but this has been exhausting and futile in the scheme of things. I'm not going to convince you guys to be team Ingram and none of our opinions really matter. Whatever happens, happens. If we get Simmons, so be it.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1471 » by eagereyez » Wed May 25, 2016 10:38 pm

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14987234/ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-top-prospects-2016-nba-draft-statistical-projections

Ben Simmons
LSU Forward Big Board: No. 1 Stats: No. 2
Consensus: 3.7 WARP
As I've discussed with Ford, the only reason Simmons isn't atop the WARP projections is the way they regress players to positional averages -- meaning that the system assumes that some of his great stats are difficult to sustain. That tends to penalize versatile players like Simmons, particularly when they only have one year of data.
Despite his disappointing finish, Simmons had one of the best freshman seasons of the one-and-done era and is the obvious No. 1 pick from a statistical standpoint.

Brandon Ingram
Duke Small forward Big Board: No. 2 Stats: No. 5
Consensus: 3.1 WARP
Where Simmons rates in the top 25 percent of prospects at his position in four different categories, Ingram only has one such strength: his shooting ability. So far, his wingspan hasn't translated into elite defensive performance in terms of box-score stats. Age does work in Ingram's favor, though: At 18, he's more than a year younger than Simmons.

Jamal Murray
Kentucky Shooting guard Big Board: No. 4 Stats: No. 13
Consensus: 2.6 WARP
Don't read too much into Murray ranking 13th in projected WARP; he's only 0.2 WARP behind Ingram in fifth. Since the board is so tightly packed outside the top handful of players, the scouting consensus takes on increased importance and puts Murray third among collegians.

Henry Ellenson
Marquette Power forward Big Board: No. 5 Stats: No. 17
Consensus: 2.3 WARP
Because of his limited athleticism, I expected Ellenson to perform better in statistical projections than scouting rankings. Instead, the opposite is true. Ellenson wasn't a particularly efficient scorer at Marquette, which had an even worse season than LSU, finishing 8-10 in the Big East. Yet Ellenson still ranks fifth on Ford's Big Board.

Jakob Poeltl
Utah Center Big Board: No. 10 Stats: No. 8
Consensus: 2.2 WARP
Returning for a second season has worked out well for Poeltl, who's improved his WARP projection from 1.6 to 2.2 by developing his finishing and his distribution. A good tournament run could help his standing on draft boards, though few teams in the top 10 are in need of a traditional center.

Kris Dunn
Providence Point guard Big Board: No. 7 Stats: No. 19
Consensus: 2.1 WARP
Few prospects in this year's draft are more capable of contributing right away than Dunn, who has the highest 2016-17 projection of anyone in Ford's top 10. The one concern is whether Dunn can score efficiently after making 48 percent of his 2s and 34 percent of his 3s this season.

Wade Baldwin IV
Vanderbilt Point guard Big Board: No. 17 Stats: No. 6
Consensus: 2.0 WARP
A statistical sleeper last year, Baldwin got on the NBA's radar with a strong performance over the summer and is now a likely first-round pick. Because of his relatively low usage rate and poor finishing -- he's made less than 44 percent of his 2-point attempts -- Baldwin's upside is low, but at minimum he looks like a quality backup PG.

Diamond Stone
Maryland Center Big Board: No. 14 Stats: No. 16
Consensus: 1.9 WARP
A raw freshman who played more minutes as the season went along, Stone is probably too aggressive offensively for his own good at this point, but he has the potential to grow into a larger role. He excelled on the offensive glass while struggling on the defensive boards.

Fred VanVleet
Wichita State Point guard Big Board: No. 62 Stats: No. 1
Consensus: 1.8 WARP
Despite the stereotype that statistical projections hurt experienced prospects, it's VanVleet and not any of the promising freshmen who comes out best by WARP. He ranks in the top 25 percent of NBA-bound point guards in six categories: free throw rate, rebounding, assists, steals, turnover rate and avoiding fouls. Yet there's only one number that seems to matter to NBA scouts when it comes to VanVleet: his 5-foot-11 height. That's why Ford doesn't even have him being taken if everyone ahead of him were to enter the draft.

Marquese Chriss
Washington Power forward Big Board: No. 8 Stats: No. 34
Consensus: 1.8 WARP
Chriss has an intriguing combination of size, athleticism and skill, which explains his rise into the top 10 of the Big Board. He's developed into a threat from the college 3-point line at 6-foot-9. Yet Chriss projects as a below-replacement NBA player next season, in large part because of his poor defensive rebounding. Chriss has grabbed defensive boards at a lower rate than 6-foot-2 teammate Andrew Andrews.

Buddy Hield
Oklahoma Shooting guard Big Board: No. 9 Stats: No. 30
Consensus: 1.8 WARP
Inevitably, Hield's 3-point shooting regressed a bit down the stretch, as he's made just 37 percent of his 3s over the past 10 games, his worst 10-game stretch of the season. Still, Hield is the best shooter in the draft, and that should probably make him a lottery pick and possibly a top-10 choice.

...All the way down at 29 is Jaylen Brown.

Jaylen Brown
California Small forward Big Board: No. 6 Stats: No. 121
Consensus: 0.9 WARP
Because he's been such an inefficient scorer, Brown actually projects for negative WARP in the NBA. He's made 49 percent of his 2-point attempts and a dismal 30 percent beyond the arc, numbers that were even worse before Brown improved to 50 percent and 35 percent, respectively, in conference play. That hasn't stopped Brown from finishing more than 30 percent of Cal's plays. His NBA-caliber size, strength and athleticism translated in terms of drawing fouls but Brown was an average rebounder for an NBA-bound small forward and actually below average in terms of steal rate.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1472 » by Agnostifarian » Thu May 26, 2016 12:22 am

Sundown wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
Sundown wrote:


Funny, but the Russell group feels way closer to the Ingram group IMO. Both had great college shooting stats, but any time there is a concern that a college athlete might need to be more explosive, I worry about a cut and paste projection to the NBA.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean.


I thought you were implying that people that loved Russell's stats last year are the same people who love Simmons (and his stats) this year. Well, the knock on Russell was questionable athleticism. That's what the scouts worried could keep him from replicating his college success. There is no such knock against Simmons this year. In fact it's Ingram who some say might lack a dynamic first step, who might not be able to get to the rim and finish at the NBA level. So I feel like Ingram is closer to this year's Russell than Simmons is.


I have no problem with Simmons' athleticism. He played a zone D just like Russell. Russell was left hand dominant -- Simmons is right hand dominant. Both players are Divas, IMO. Simmons is light years ahead of Russell when it comes to ceiling. I like Ingram more for his complete game, age and elite length. Good kid.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1473 » by freshie2 » Thu May 26, 2016 2:06 am

eagereyez wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14987234/ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-top-prospects-2016-nba-draft-statistical-projections

Ben Simmons
LSU Forward Big Board: No. 1 Stats: No. 2
Consensus: 3.7 WARP
As I've discussed with Ford, the only reason Simmons isn't atop the WARP projections is the way they regress players to positional averages -- meaning that the system assumes that some of his great stats are difficult to sustain. That tends to penalize versatile players like Simmons, particularly when they only have one year of data.
Despite his disappointing finish, Simmons had one of the best freshman seasons of the one-and-done era and is the obvious No. 1 pick from a statistical standpoint.

Brandon Ingram
Duke Small forward Big Board: No. 2 Stats: No. 5
Consensus: 3.1 WARP
Where Simmons rates in the top 25 percent of prospects at his position in four different categories, Ingram only has one such strength: his shooting ability. So far, his wingspan hasn't translated into elite defensive performance in terms of box-score stats. Age does work in Ingram's favor, though: At 18, he's more than a year younger than Simmons.

Jamal Murray
Kentucky Shooting guard Big Board: No. 4 Stats: No. 13
Consensus: 2.6 WARP
Don't read too much into Murray ranking 13th in projected WARP; he's only 0.2 WARP behind Ingram in fifth. Since the board is so tightly packed outside the top handful of players, the scouting consensus takes on increased importance and puts Murray third among collegians.


I'm shocked nobody has posted a summary from some kid in their basement that counters espn based on the fact that Ingram is long and can shoot the three. We've seen about 50 posts with a narrative from JQ Public invoking some numbers to support Ingram. He's a great kid, and if the Sixers deem he's the best prospect I'm ok with the pick, but the contrarians have gotten a bit out of hand in bashing Simmons.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1474 » by Sixerscan » Thu May 26, 2016 2:23 am

Few prospects in this year's draft are more capable of contributing right away than Dunn, who has the highest 2016-17 projection of anyone in Ford's top 10. The one concern is whether Dunn can score efficiently after making 48 percent of his 2s and 34 percent of his 3s this season.


dunn shot 37% from 3?
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1475 » by PhilasFinest » Thu May 26, 2016 2:25 am

Sixerscan wrote:
Few prospects in this year's draft are more capable of contributing right away than Dunn, who has the highest 2016-17 projection of anyone in Ford's top 10. The one concern is whether Dunn can score efficiently after making 48 percent of his 2s and 34 percent of his 3s this season.


dunn shot 37% from 3?


Yup. 37.2% on 3.4 attempts a game.

35% on 2.3 att the year prior.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1476 » by Agnostifarian » Thu May 26, 2016 11:13 am

Negrodamus wrote:Phiphan, you deleted it, but yes, I think we have bottomed out. Not that these two responses to me aren't worthy of a rebuttal, but this has been exhausting and futile in the scheme of things. I'm not going to convince you guys to be team Ingram and none of our opinions really matter. Whatever happens, happens. If we get Simmons, so be it.


I'm with you. If Simmons is the pick, I will hope for him to be the GOAT. I will root for 76er titles. The last thing I will enjoy is saying, "I told you so..." I don't need Simmons to be a role model. I need Simmons to lead the team and to WIN. I want him driven by the desire to win more championships than LBJ, than Kobe, Tim and MJ. Ben's sneaker deal means **** for me. ZERO!

I am not a Simmons hater. I want Ingram AND Simmons. I'd gladly wave goodbye to OK4, Noel & Saric to pry #2 from LAL. Embiid/Simmons/Ingram is the modern day Holy Trilogy in the NBA. Make it happen, Bryan.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1477 » by MGB8 » Thu May 26, 2016 1:58 pm

Agnostifarian wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Phiphan, you deleted it, but yes, I think we have bottomed out. Not that these two responses to me aren't worthy of a rebuttal, but this has been exhausting and futile in the scheme of things. I'm not going to convince you guys to be team Ingram and none of our opinions really matter. Whatever happens, happens. If we get Simmons, so be it.


I'm with you. If Simmons is the pick, I will hope for him to be the GOAT. I will root for 76er titles. The last thing I will enjoy is saying, "I told you so..." I don't need Simmons to be a role model. I need Simmons to lead the team and to WIN. I want him driven by the desire to win more championships than LBJ, than Kobe, Tim and MJ. Ben's sneaker deal means **** for me. ZERO!

I am not a Simmons hater. I want Ingram AND Simmons. I'd gladly wave goodbye to OK4, Noel & Saric to pry #2 from LAL. Embiid/Simmons/Ingram is the modern day Holy Trilogy in the NBA. Make it happen, Bryan.


I agree with both of you. But I have to say, Simmons makes me a lot more nervous - even as I am resigned to the Sixers picking him because of his higher ceiling.

I think it's 70/30 that Ingram is the better NBA player. Watching the playoffs and seeing the value of consistent shooting, and the ability to get shots off against tight defense, along with the ability of zone scheme to frustrate drives into the lane, make me all the more comfortable with Ingram's skillset vs. Simmons'. Ingram's ball handling and passing ability has also gotten seriously underrated - he makes good, sharp, but smart/safe/not-splashy passes, and he can drive to get himself open for J's or to get into the lane - the issue is that he's not so strong that defensive bumps don't impact him.

I don't think Simmons' rebounding will translate into the NBA - I think he's a 7-9 rebound per game game guy - good, but not "elite." I think his lack of shooting will really hurt him. I think his handle is somewhat overrated, and his passing ability, while excellent, isn't necessarily disciplined enough, will be hurt by his lack of shot (see MCW), and also, that the fast footspeed of 6'0-ish guys lets them get to places on the court (and open up passing lanes) that Simmons simply won't quite have the ability to do. In short, unless he develops a very reliable jump shot, I think it's unlikely that Simmons is "transcendent."

Saying all of that, he's still a blue chip prospect who has special footspeed, athleticism, ball handling skills and passing skills for his size. Just that makes his ceiling higher than Ingram's (despite Ingram's length and solid athleticism of his own). I'd absolutely move a ton to get Simmons to replace Okafor and/or Noel (that might be ideal, actually). But I'd be much more comfortable with getting Ingram - if you have to pick between the two.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1478 » by Sundown » Thu May 26, 2016 2:01 pm

eagereyez wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14987234/ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-top-prospects-2016-nba-draft-statistical-projections

Brandon Ingram
Duke Small forward Big Board: No. 2 Stats: No. 5
Consensus: 3.1 WARP
Where Simmons rates in the top 25 percent of prospects at his position in four different categories, Ingram only has one such strength: his shooting ability. So far, his wingspan hasn't translated into elite defensive performance in terms of box-score stats. Age does work in Ingram's favor, though: At 18, he's more than a year younger than Simmons.


Without a doubt this is what excites everyone about Ingram. But it's also worth noting that we are still talking about a very small sample size with his outside shot because it's only one season. The difference between his 41% from three and a pedestrian 36% is only 10 makes. Plenty of guys in college shoot 40% one season and then 35% the next. So you have to believe that he truly is a great shooter, and didn't just have a statistically good year, to justify him at #1.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1479 » by Negrodamus » Thu May 26, 2016 2:10 pm

Sundown wrote:
eagereyez wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14987234/ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-top-prospects-2016-nba-draft-statistical-projections

Brandon Ingram
Duke Small forward Big Board: No. 2 Stats: No. 5
Consensus: 3.1 WARP
Where Simmons rates in the top 25 percent of prospects at his position in four different categories, Ingram only has one such strength: his shooting ability. So far, his wingspan hasn't translated into elite defensive performance in terms of box-score stats. Age does work in Ingram's favor, though: At 18, he's more than a year younger than Simmons.


Without a doubt this is what excites everyone about Ingram. But it's also worth noting that we are still talking about a very small sample size with his outside shot because it's only one season. The difference between his 41% from three and a pedestrian 36% is only 10 makes. Plenty of guys in college shoot 40% one season and then 35% the next. So you have to believe that he truly is a great shooter, and didn't just have a statistically good year, to justify him at #1.


I love that stat. Heard it on a podcast somewhere. 10 3pt makes or misses equates to 2 games worth of data, maybe 1 if he's jacking up threes.

If Ben Simmons threw 10 more turnovers, he'd be up to 3.7 TO per game which is disastrous. 10 less assists and he has a 4.5 apg; his passing numbers look less sexy. 10 less free throws and he's shooting 63% from FT.

The fact is, he didn't throw those turnovers, he did make those assists, and he did hit those free throws.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1480 » by Agnostifarian » Thu May 26, 2016 2:23 pm

MGB8 wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Phiphan, you deleted it, but yes, I think we have bottomed out. Not that these two responses to me aren't worthy of a rebuttal, but this has been exhausting and futile in the scheme of things. I'm not going to convince you guys to be team Ingram and none of our opinions really matter. Whatever happens, happens. If we get Simmons, so be it.


I'm with you. If Simmons is the pick, I will hope for him to be the GOAT. I will root for 76er titles. The last thing I will enjoy is saying, "I told you so..." I don't need Simmons to be a role model. I need Simmons to lead the team and to WIN. I want him driven by the desire to win more championships than LBJ, than Kobe, Tim and MJ. Ben's sneaker deal means **** for me. ZERO!

I am not a Simmons hater. I want Ingram AND Simmons. I'd gladly wave goodbye to OK4, Noel & Saric to pry #2 from LAL. Embiid/Simmons/Ingram is the modern day Holy Trilogy in the NBA. Make it happen, Bryan.


I agree with both of you. But I have to say, Simmons makes me a lot more nervous - even as I am resigned to the Sixers picking him because of his higher ceiling.

I think it's 70/30 that Ingram is the better NBA player. Watching the playoffs and seeing the value of consistent shooting, and the ability to get shots off against tight defense, along with the ability of zone scheme to frustrate drives into the lane, make me all the more comfortable with Ingram's skillset vs. Simmons'. Ingram's ball handling and passing ability has also gotten seriously underrated - he makes good, sharp, but smart/safe/not-splashy passes, and he can drive to get himself open for J's or to get into the lane - the issue is that he's not so strong that defensive bumps don't impact him.

I don't think Simmons' rebounding will translate into the NBA - I think he's a 7-9 rebound per game game guy - good, but not "elite." I think his lack of shooting will really hurt him. I think his handle is somewhat overrated, and his passing ability, while excellent, isn't necessarily disciplined enough, will be hurt by his lack of shot (see MCW), and also, that the fast footspeed of 6'0-ish guys lets them get to places on the court (and open up passing lanes) that Simmons simply won't quite have the ability to do. In short, unless he develops a very reliable jump shot, I think it's unlikely that Simmons is "transcendent."

Saying all of that, he's still a blue chip prospect who has special footspeed, athleticism, ball handling skills and passing skills for his size. Just that makes his ceiling higher than Ingram's (despite Ingram's length and solid athleticism of his own). I'd absolutely move a ton to get Simmons to replace Okafor and/or Noel (that might be ideal, actually). But I'd be much more comfortable with getting Ingram - if you have to pick between the two.


Amen, Brother!
“This may be one of the best jobs in basketball right now,” Colangelo said at a press conference introducing him as the new GM of the 76ers after Sam Hinkie resigned.

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