The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 2)

[Basileus777]

The bigger question is how much guarding Westbrook is taking away from Curry's offense rather than his general effectiveness against Russ. Even if he is holding his own on defense, it's a net loss for the Warriors if it's diluting his offensive impact.

[Clyde Frazier]

1995 NBA Playoffs: Houston Rockets over Phoenix Suns (Western Conference Semifinals)

This series marked the first time since 1968 that a lower seeded team came back from a 3-1 deficit, but the Rockets, en route to their second title in as many years, were no ordinary 6-seed. Unlike 1981, this series more closely mirrored Thunder-Warriors, with three blowouts and one close Suns' win leaving Phoenix with a 3-1 lead heading into Phoenix. And, unlike the Thunder, the Suns had two chances to close it out at home.

Unfortunately, however, they still had to deal with Hakeem Olajuwon. The Dream averaged 30 points per game for the final three games of the series, including a consciousness-expanding 30-point, 10-assists, 8-rebounds, 5-blocks performance in Game 6. Charles Barkley and Kevin Johnson were just as brilliant, especially in Game 7 where the former had 23 rebounds and the latter had 46 points, but Hakeem, along with players like Clyde Drexler and Kenny Smith, proved too much to handle.

For the Thunder, the lesson is obvious. No matter how well things are going, they need to watch out for the MVP.

http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2016/05/every-time-an-nba-team-came-back-from-a-3-1-deficit-and-what-it-means-for-the-warriors/

[te887848]

Curry's peak is in no way better than Shaq at all. Regular season or not

Sure it is. All the individual stats and team success support that he is.

And honestly, with news that Curry is generously only 70% healthy, it's no surprise the Thunder (a 65+ win caliber team at full strength) are demolishing the Warriors.

The Warriors are nothing without Curry. If a team's best player isn't healthy while his competition is, it isn't really a fair fight at all.

Such a shame because the Warriors could've gone down as the GOAT team with the GOAT peak player, but we won't know what could've been due to injury.

You believe a random report rather than Steve Kerr and Steph Curry himself. You're making excuses and you know it. Even if you consider him hurt, the fact that he can't adjust his game when he isn't making 3s shows that he isn't the GOAT peak. He completely useless on the floor without the 3. The lanes aren't as open due to the 3 not falling for the whole team, that's why he isn't finishing or passing well. Curry isn't a good player with an average 3 period

It's not a random report, it's written obviously because it's true. It's not being said about any other major star player (Durant, Westbrook, LeBron etc) because they're all pretty much fully healthy. And obviously Curry and Kerr will deny it for the exact reason that other people will deem it as "making excuses" but that doesn't change the fact that Curry is clearly way less than healthy and that is having a major impact on this series.

None of that stuff you said is any proof of not being the GOAT peak. You don't need to have to adjust your game at all to have the GOAT peak, and who cares if he's useless without his 3 falling? The point is that when he's healthy his 3 is always falling, at unprecedented percentages and accuracy, with never before seen distance and range, and with never before seen volume either. That's what propelled GSW to having the greatest regular season offense and overall record of all-time.

All of that will obviously be compromised if the player is physically disabled and unable to move as he normally would when healthy.

So yeah, Curry won't have the GOAT or even a top 3 peak, but it'll have nothing to do with him not being good enough, because nearly 82 games of a sample size showed that he was. It'll be purely because he got hurt, which is a shame. It's the all time "what could've been."

[ppedro123]

Omg, stop with this "Curry is not healthy" bulls***

The dude dropped 40 in his comeback, went nuts in OT and even screamed " I'm Back". Made crazy shots in the following game 5 and went nuts against the Thunder in game 2 3rd quarter.

He's healthy enough to play and to be dominant. The truth is, he is NOT being dominant.

He's fully capable of bouncing back (he's an unbelievable player) and lead his team again. But while he's not doing that yet, stop riding on this dude's dick. You don't get to have the GOAT peak by dominating regular season games but getting blown out in the playoffs. Let the guy play and we'll see.

[PaulieWal]

If Curry wasn't healthy then Kerr wouldn't have him guarding Russ for 20-25 minutes a game. Truth is Curry is just not playing that well and people are making excuses about his health.

Bob Voulgaris who has been discussed on this board was on Simmons' podcast today and made a few great points:
-Guarding and boxing out Russ is taking a lot out of Curry
- Everywhere he goes he's seeing arms, length, and shot disruptors
- He's actually missed some open looks but his legs are tired
- The entire offense of GSW is bogging down because OKC is playing elite defense, it's not just limited to Curry
- He's had these kind of games before in the PS, it's not something new

Nobody was saying anything about an injury until after game 4. He did have a GOAT level RS but is clearly playing way below that right now.

[JordansBulls]

It is what happens when you haven't lost in back to back games all year.

[bondom34]

He put up 17 in OT against Porland and yelled "I'm back", then put up 17 or whatever in a quarter against OKC. Its not an injury issue, they wouldn't play him this hard if it was either. Banged up, maybe. But in that case, so's Adams, Ibaka, Durant, Bogut, half the NBA.

He may very well drop 40 tomorrow and this suddenly disappears.

[GSP]

He has to guard alot more this series and thats the main reason his offense has suffered. Also i posted a vid on here earlier showing the drastic increase in his scoring efficiency when Iggy is the ballhandler and that has strong merit here. No coincidence Iggy sparked that run to close half in their win and all the looks Steph was getting in his spots with Iggy running the show. Hes a better ballhandler and playmaker than Steph TBH and Steph wont have to expend as much energy trying to make decisions onball which he isnt on the level of the alltime great Pgs at. Hes just not getting the space he did in the regular season, playoffs are a different beast. Fouls that were called fouls back then which gives players especially shooters coming off screens more space later on, and builds confidence as the game goes arent there as much. Players arent as lackadaisical on defense as they are in the regular season, taking plays off that leads to easy points, bigs forgetting to show, traps not as frequent, giving Draymond and Steph more space out of pickandroll, teams are actually gameplanning for ur skillset in a series not off b2bs against other teams or having long schedules worrying about other teams etc.

All the ppl that built him up to be some untouchable player need to be objective here. He has a FAR higher defensive usage in this series with all the switching going on specially when Okc goes small. He has to be active in so many plays defensively now, he has to deal with Andre and Goat level offensive Pg rebounding Westbrook crashing the glass. Those things dont show up in defensive stats where ppl label Steph as a good to great defender due to the easy assignments/hiding/roaming he was allowed in the regular season outside a couple matchups. All of this takes a huge toll on a player. Its what makes guys like Mj and Lebron Goat caliber that they could be so dominant at both ends with having the bulk of the responsibility for almost every aspect of offense and defense for their team. Theyre not as otherworldly in one area like Steph is in 3pt shooting but its a more complete package that for them has produced great, consistent postseasons. We'll see with Steph who usually has a great run or spark in a quarter that blows open a game like against Cavs or game 2 against Okc and he will have one tomorrow IMO. Also that vid in previous page shows Steph has done a solid job at keeping Westbrook in front of him in the halfcourt outside of getting screened hard a couple times. Steph is really strong for such a scrawny physique he rarely gets bullied in the post even by some of the biggest Pgs. Really only on the glass has he looked weak and thats credit to Okcs scheme. If he was truly as injured as so many are implying he would not be able to keep a freak like Russ with that kind of explosiveness in front of him in the halfcourt.

[GSP]

Another example is Kevin Durant. Ever since game 2 against Spurs he's played some of the best defense I've seen any player play this season. It's by far the best defense I've seen him play and yet outside of that ridiculous game 4 spurs performance which might be the best performance his career, his scoring numbers and ts% aren't the usual Kd. It's no coincidence it's come with this drastic change and responsibility on defense and it's no coincidence he scored his usual level in that blowout for GS when okcs defense fell apart.

Of course this all pre Pf Kd I'm talking about and he's killed in transition since then on O even, hasn't been the same halfcourt assassin. It's hard to believe the level he has been at these last 2 games which I have a hard time believing he can sustain.

[Cuban_Linx]

Another example is Kevin Durant. Ever since game 2 against Spurs he's played some of the best defense I've seen any player play this season. It's by far the best defense I've seen him play and yet outside of that ridiculous game 4 spurs performance which might be the best performance his career, his scoring numbers and ts% aren't the usual Kd. It's no coincidence it's come with this drastic change and responsibility on defense and it's no coincidence he scored his usual level in that blowout for GS when okcs defense fell apart.

Of course this all pre Pf Kd I'm talking about and he's killed in transition since then on O even, hasn't been the same halfcourt assassin. It's hard to believe the level he has been at these last 2 games which I have a hard time believing he can sustain.

A lot of it has to do with KD's ballhandling which hasn't been the same post-injury. He used to be like a 2 guard playing SF but nowadays his handles in traffic are a lot more like you'd expect from a 6'11" guy and it really hindered his slashing game for most of the PS.

All props to Donovan for reworking our offense in that 4 day gap between G2 and G3 and getting back to what worked so well in that 17pt 4th quarter against the Spurs. He's taken away a lot of his responsibilities as the ball handler and is now mostly having him create by running PnR with Roberson, who turns out is very Draymond like as an outlet for GS trapping KD, or already on the move after coming off screens.

KD's not gonna be the halfcourt assassin he was pre-injury, but I think we've finally adapted and he's definitely not gonna be the TO factory we saw before these past two home games.

[Le-Lyonnais]

The disrespect Steph has gotten over the past 3-4 days is mind blowing. It's not like he's being outplayed by a scrub. He can't produce the same kind of insane numbers he put in the regular season cause that's what happens when you have to guard Westbrook at his very best for 20-25 minutes a game.

Steph is an insanely great player. Just not as great as some believe he was. That doesn't mean he should get punished for how the media and so called specialists have over-hyped him the last 2 years.

The people over critisizing Curry right now should spend more time praising Westbrook instead, the dude's playing like an apex predator who's smelling blood.

[thizznation]

The disrespect Steph has gotten over the past 3-4 days is mind blowing. It's not like he's being outplayed by a scrub. He can't produce the same kind of insane numbers he put in the regular season cause that's what happens when you have to guard Westbrook at his very best for 20-25 minutes a game.

Steph is an insanely great player. Just not as great as some believe he was. That doesn't mean he should get punished for how the media and so called specialists have over-hyped him the last 2 years.

The people over critisizing Curry right now should spend more time praising Westbrook instead, the dude's playing like an apex predator who's smelling blood.

I don't think I have ever played this card but the backlash has been nothing short of incredible. It has become evident that there is a large base of fans that have been waiting to jump down Curry's throat for a long time and they see this as their opportunity.

I'm dead serious that anyone claiming that Curry is not battling an injury right now is being intellectually dishonest. People are going to ignore the game they are watching and take Curry and Kerrs word for it that he is fine? I'm guessing none of these guys follow Hockey, in Hockey they almost never disclose the full nature of the injury, vague terms like "lower body injury" are used. They do this to keep the other teams in the dark. Why broadcast to the world and OKC that Curry is injured? All that does is give OKC strategic information and added confidence. It would be completely idiotic for Curry or Kerr to come out and disclose the full nature of the injury at this time.

[bondom34]

The disrespect Steph has gotten over the past 3-4 days is mind blowing. It's not like he's being outplayed by a scrub. He can't produce the same kind of insane numbers he put in the regular season cause that's what happens when you have to guard Westbrook at his very best for 20-25 minutes a game.

Steph is an insanely great player. Just not as great as some believe he was. That doesn't mean he should get punished for how the media and so called specialists have over-hyped him the last 2 years.

The people over critisizing Curry right now should spend more time praising Westbrook instead, the dude's playing like an apex predator who's smelling blood.

I don't think I have ever played this card but the backlash has been nothing short of incredible. It has become evident that there is a large base of fans that have been waiting to jump down Curry's throat for a long time and they see this as their opportunity.

I'm dead serious that anyone claiming that Curry is not battling an injury right now is being intellectually dishonest. People are going to ignore the game they are watching and take Curry and Kerrs word for it that he is fine? I'm guessing none of these guys follow Hockey, in Hockey they almost never disclose the full nature of the injury, vague terms like "lower body injury" are used. They do this to keep the other teams in the dark. Why broadcast to the world and OKC that Curry is injured? All that does is give OKC strategic information and added confidence. It would be completely idiotic for Curry or Kerr to come out and disclose the full nature of the injury at this time.

I don't think he's battling an injury, but he is "hurt". At this time, most of the guys out there are though. Adams has 1 hand, a testicular contusion, and a bad ankle and has played well. Ibaka's banged up all year, KD's never been the same.

I think the backlash is that he puts up 17 in OT and everyone says hes back, but as soon as he has a bad game he's injured. I wouldn't be shocked if he drops 30-40 tonight, then the "hes hurt" idea sounds wrong again.

[Dr Spaceman]

Spoiler:

If Curry wasn't healthy then Kerr wouldn't have him guarding Russ for 20-25 minutes a game. Truth is Curry is just not playing that well and people are making excuses about his health.

Bob Voulgaris who has been discussed on this board was on Simmons' podcast today and made a few great points:
-Guarding and boxing out Russ is taking a lot out of Curry
- Everywhere he goes he's seeing arms, length, and shot disruptors
- He's actually missed some open looks but his legs are tired
- The entire offense of GSW is bogging down because OKC is playing elite defense, it's not just limited to Curry
- He's had these kind of games before in the PS, it's not something new

Nobody was saying anything about an injury until after game 4. He did have a GOAT level RS but is clearly playing way below that right now.

Spoiler:

He put up 17 in OT against Porland and yelled "I'm back", then put up 17 or whatever in a quarter against OKC. Its not an injury issue, they wouldn't play him this hard if it was either. Banged up, maybe. But in that case, so's Adams, Ibaka, Durant, Bogut, half the NBA.

He may very well drop 40 tomorrow and this suddenly disappears.

These are all good points, and I'll say I've been disappointed in Curry's efforts especially defensively in recent games. That said, what you're arguing and Curry not being healthy are not mutually exclusive.

FWIW I said in game 1 it looked like he wasn't moving well and the same after game 2. This isn't coming out of nowhere for me. It's been exacerbated in the two most recent games, where I've had examples to point to, but to me the guy is clearly struggling with his knee all series. GSW got so much offense in the RS out oi "Curry draws big man on switch, Curry turns on the jets and drives past them for a layup". That isn't happening anymore, hell there was a play in game 2 where he couldn't beat Kanter and settled for a step back 3 in the corner (which he made). But because it was during that crazy 3rd quarter no one said anything. I was never on the "he's back" train after G2, because to me it's clear he isn't the same guy. He can't get to the rim, and he can't finish bunnies when he does get there.

This is not to take anything away from OKC, who have played better basketball than I could have imagined in my wildest dreams. This is the team I'd hoped they'd morph into in 2012. Their defense has been incredible, and they've made the Curry/Green PNR disappear completely. All due respect, but it doesn't have to say anything negative about OKC that Curry is clearly not himself in this series (to me).

And I wouldn't draw equivalence between "torn knee ligament" and "banged up". From everything I know about that injury, Curry came back very quickly.

[KD35Brah]

wrong thread...

[bondom34]

I'd also add, there's a bit of it that's purely set on expectations. Fair or not, there's a high bar set for a unanimous now 2 time MVP, hurt or not.

[gaf234]

I don't think I have ever played this card but the backlash has been nothing short of incredible. It has become evident that there is a large base of fans that have been waiting to jump down Curry's throat for a long time and they see this as their opportunity.

I'm dead serious that anyone claiming that Curry is not battling an injury right now is being intellectually dishonest. People are going to ignore the game they are watching and take Curry and Kerrs word for it that he is fine? I'm guessing none of these guys follow Hockey, in Hockey they almost never disclose the full nature of the injury, vague terms like "lower body injury" are used. They do this to keep the other teams in the dark. Why broadcast to the world and OKC that Curry is injured? All that does is give OKC strategic information and added confidence. It would be completely idiotic for Curry or Kerr to come out and disclose the full nature of the injury at this time.

Sorry, but this is just laughable. Curry suffered a Grade 1 MCL sprain over a month ago. Typical recovery time is 1-3 weeks.

Let's imagine he suffered this injury in January, and at the beginning of February he had a 4 game stretch where GSW had four games against elite defenses and Curry individually put up 24/5/5 on 58TS%. Is anyone talking about how he's injured? How he's not himself? How he's seventy percent... at best? Please. Curry had 26/5/6 on 58TS% in the finals last year. Most people on this board correctly thought he had an excellent series overall. And obviously, OKC is just a better team than CLE was.

He's not playing as well as he did in the regular season? Well duh. Most players usually "get worse" when they play against better teams. But he hasn't been close to terrible at all. He had a bad game 4. He wasn't close to bad in any of the other games. Yeah his defense has been bad. But let's be real, if you watch Curry this year he's had plenty of times where he's been a "disinterested" defender. And I, like a lot of people on this board, still thought he was peaking at MJ/Shaq/LeBron/GOAT territory. His defense is not a big factor in his overall goodness.

Of course, you'll counter that he doesn't "look" right. Well I disagree. He missed shots at the rim, even after he had beaten his defender to the hoop. He's missed three pointers where he's had good looks (for him). But if we disagree on our eye test assessment I really don't see where you can get off calling people "dishonest".

So why is GSW suddenly mortal? It's freaking obvious: Draymond has gone from a top 8 (conservatively speaking) player to a bum. He's the one guy who looks like he's not himself. If it comes out he's playing with a bum shoulder or something? I'll believe it. But saying Curry is injured? I don't believe that, because I just don't see it.

Curry is not balling out in this series, and maybe that's disappointing to people after what he did in the RS. But people are conflating that with GSW's failings as a team, which is just unfair.

[ppedro123]

The disrespect Steph has gotten over the past 3-4 days is mind blowing. It's not like he's being outplayed by a scrub. He can't produce the same kind of insane numbers he put in the regular season cause that's what happens when you have to guard Westbrook at his very best for 20-25 minutes a game.

Steph is an insanely great player. Just not as great as some believe he was. That doesn't mean he should get punished for how the media and so called specialists have over-hyped him the last 2 years.

The people over critisizing Curry right now should spend more time praising Westbrook instead, the dude's playing like an apex predator who's smelling blood.

I don't think I have ever played this card but the backlash has been nothing short of incredible. It has become evident that there is a large base of fans that have been waiting to jump down Curry's throat for a long time and they see this as their opportunity.

I'm dead serious that anyone claiming that Curry is not battling an injury right now is being intellectually dishonest. People are going to ignore the game they are watching and take Curry and Kerrs word for it that he is fine? I'm guessing none of these guys follow Hockey, in Hockey they almost never disclose the full nature of the injury, vague terms like "lower body injury" are used. They do this to keep the other teams in the dark. Why broadcast to the world and OKC that Curry is injured? All that does is give OKC strategic information and added confidence. It would be completely idiotic for Curry or Kerr to come out and disclose the full nature of the injury at this time.

Curry is not injured, man.

He might be a little banged up but nobody at this point is 100%. Its the playoffs.

Stop making up excuses. Curry is not making excuses, you shouldn't either.

[RSCD3_]

I feel the 40 pt game and im back are being exaggerated too much. He got a ton of open looks as portland kept playing too far back giving too much respect on his jumper. They are also much wealer at the guards defensively, it was clear to me in that game though he had a good shooting night it looked tougher fpr him than many of his other 40 point nights. I feel when GS inevitably loses ( thunder are most likely not gonna win 3 in a row, spare me the jinx talk btw ) how curry plays in next years playoffs will be a good indication of how much of this is related to health

[gaf234]

And I wouldn't draw equivalence between "torn knee ligament" and "banged up". From everything I know about that injury, Curry came back very quickly.

Not true as I pointed out above. There were 17 days in between game 3 vs HOU and game 4 vs POR. WebMD tells us

Mild or grade 1 injuries usually get better in 1 to 3 weeks and may only need home treatment along with using crutches for a short time.

And I don't mean you specifically, but it's pretty clear people are going to say Curry's injury was a "factor" in the series going forward for ideological reasons. I've seen plenty of people on basketball twitter who are GSW fans because they're pro-analytics and anti-Barkley's type of thinking. If GSW loses to OKC, people like Barkley and Cowherd and so on will resurrect all the nonsensical arguments they've been peddling for years, and unfortunately that's going to put people who are interested in the analytical side of the game in a defensive posture, even though the narrative that sets GSW up as a new-school jump shooting team and OKC as a throwback to the superstar iso-ball is garbage.