Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[marcush]

I like Ingram, looks like a great kid. And I'm all for surrounding stars with length and shooting but at this stage he looks more of a terrific role player like a Kris Middleton. I don't see the KD comps and I think if he were on that plane as a prospect it would be obvious that he was clearly above his contemporaries even at this stage.

I think you are selling Ingram a bit short by calling him Kris Middleton, but I can see the comparison. But even if he is just Kris Middleton, that's more valuable in todays NBA than Lamar Odom (Ben Simmons).

Fair enough. I'd be taking Odom.

Thankfully we get to choose between those 2 and not the remaining rabble in this lottery.

[Negrodamus]

I like Ingram, looks like a great kid. And I'm all for surrounding stars with length and shooting but at this stage he looks more of a terrific role player like a Kris Middleton. I don't see the KD comps and I think if he were on that plane as a prospect it would be obvious that he was clearly above his contemporaries even at this stage.

I think you are selling Ingram a bit short by calling him Kris Middleton, but I can see the comparison. But even if he is just Kris Middleton, that's more valuable in todays NBA than Lamar Odom (Ben Simmons).

And Middleton's wingspan is 5 inches shorter, standing reach half a foot shorter, and height 1.25 in shorter. I think those numbers should be accounted for.

[Mik317]

I think bottom line we should be happy no matter which one we choose.

we won.

[marcush]

I like Ingram, looks like a great kid. And I'm all for surrounding stars with length and shooting but at this stage he looks more of a terrific role player like a Kris Middleton. I don't see the KD comps and I think if he were on that plane as a prospect it would be obvious that he was clearly above his contemporaries even at this stage.

I think you are selling Ingram a bit short by calling him Kris Middleton, but I can see the comparison. But even if he is just Kris Middleton, that's more valuable in todays NBA than Lamar Odom (Ben Simmons).

And Middleton's wingspan is 5 inches shorter, standing reach half a foot shorter, and height 1.25 in shorter. I think those numbers should be accounted for.

Yeah, that's cool that he has great length. I do like him as a prospect which is why I compared him to a top 10 SG like Middleton.

I can see that his length is an asset defensively but it doesn't seem to be really helping his offence. Shouldn't someone with such advantage be more more effective finisher? How can Simmons who's perceived disadvantage is length can be so superior at that part of the game?

[Negrodamus]

I think bottom line we should be happy no matter which one we choose.

we won.

Definitely. And not to take anything away from Simmons, but I think we will stay away from Ingram because he needs to gain weight before he can become a stud.

Simmons is ready now to contribute and I think that's what Colangelo is interested in. That's not a bad situation at all since Simmons definitely has room to grow himself, but he's ready to bang with the size of the NBA.

[Negrodamus]

I think you are selling Ingram a bit short by calling him Kris Middleton, but I can see the comparison. But even if he is just Kris Middleton, that's more valuable in todays NBA than Lamar Odom (Ben Simmons).

And Middleton's wingspan is 5 inches shorter, standing reach half a foot shorter, and height 1.25 in shorter. I think those numbers should be accounted for.

Yeah, that's cool that he has great length. I do like him as a prospect which is why I compared him to a top 10 SG like Middleton.

I can see that his length is an asset defensively but it doesn't seem to be really helping his offence. Shouldn't someone with such advantage be more more effective finisher? How can Simmons who's perceived disadvantage is length can be so superior at that part of the game?

Size. He was 195 this season. He needs bulk and just general NBA S&C before he can finish over stronger players. He does have pretty good body control in the air, but he needs to be better to finish through contact. I think his frame will allow more bulk in time.

[05PhillyAI]

I think the competitiveness that BC is looking for is something along the lines of more than 10 wins, not shooting for a playoff spot.

I actually think the Sixers would be more competitive with B.I. because they'd actually have someone who can make a basket or two.

[76ciology]

"I just was surprised -- he didn't even try to shoot from the outside," Guilbeau said. "That would be the normal attribute that a player like him would have because he's a guard. He's basically a guard who can't shoot. Most of them can shoot. That's what I thought was really missing, and it hurt the team at times.

"In my mind, either you can dominate inside like a Shaquille O'Neal, or you can do all the other things, but all the other things has to include shooting from the outside, and he doesn't do that.

Same with my concern. To be special, either simmons dominate the paint shooting 75FG% at the rim like in LSU or he develop a good perimeter shot/game.

[marcush]

"I just was surprised -- he didn't even try to shoot from the outside," Guilbeau said. "That would be the normal attribute that a player like him would have because he's a guard. He's basically a guard who can't shoot. Most of them can shoot. That's what I thought was really missing, and it hurt the team at times.

"In my mind, either you can dominate inside like a Shaquille O'Neal, or you can do all the other things, but all the other things has to include shooting from the outside, and he doesn't do that.

Same with my concern. To be special, either simmons dominate the paint shooting 75FG% at the rim like in LSU or he develop a good perimeter shot/game.

Getting to the line 9 times per game would be nice too.

[oddwolfhooligan]

What is this top100 talk?

What players on LSU besides Quarterman and Hornsby were even starting caliber?

And please don't say Antonio Blakeney because he was a bigger freshman bust than Dwayne Bacon.

As in guys who were ranked as top 100 recruits going into college. I guarantee you the vast majority of teams that have that many top 100 recruits generally make the NCAA tournament, especially if they have a player of the caliber that you think Simmons is.

But to answer your question, Simmons had Victor, Quarterman, Hornsby, and Blakeny. Also, your criticism of Blakeney is hyperbole and completely unfounded. In what world is averaging nearly 13 ppg on 43% shooting with only .8 topg as a freshmen SG bust-worthy? If you think that a 5 star freshmen is a bust while putting up those numbers then you honestly don't know what you're talking about.

The bottom line is that LSU had enough talent on paper to make the tournament, especially when you consider how down of a year this was talent-wise. There's only so many truly talented basketball players and far more high-major college programs. Having 1 POY candidate and 4 other solid players is more than enough to make it into the tournament, especially when that POY candidate is supposed to possess an elite BBIQ and make his teammates better.

[oddwolfhooligan]

I see so much potential with Ingram anchoring a perimeter defense. He can do what KD is doing to the GSW's on defense. I also like how dedicated his is to working on his game.

Still leaning towards Simmons because I can see him being a 6'10 Westbrook for our team, but I hope we truly test both players before making a decision.

Dude, as far as athleticism, motor, and work ethic go, Simmons isn't even in the same stratosphere as Westbrook. And 21 year old Russell Westbrook would have never even come close to becoming present day Westbrook if it wasn't for his freakish athleticism and insane competitiveness.

[freshie2]

LSU as a team was pretty bad this year. Simmons takes some of the blame, but the supporting cast was not good at all...not sure how anyone could have watched many games and thought otherwise. I don't see a taller Westbrook as he's probably one of the best raw athletes ever to play in the NBA, but Simmons has very unique skill for a player of his size. The comparisons are difficult as there really hasn't been a player with his size/skill set to come into the league. He's going to make his own legacy one way or another, but unless he absolutely bombs the interviews, you have to go with his star quality and pick him #1.

Ingram doesn't display KD type athleticism, which makes me more hesitant to say he's a star...he may be a Channing Frye, Anderson type stretch big, which is fine but not worth being the #1 overall pick. I get why people look at his length and 3pt shot and are enamored with him, but I struggle with how those same people don't see star qualities in Simmons game. They'd actually be a great pairing...star/distributor in Simmons and a long 3pt shooter in Ingram, but it's easier to find the spot up 3pt shooter than it is to find your star.

[Unbreakable99]

I think the competitiveness that BC is looking for is something along the lines of more than 10 wins, not shooting for a playoff spot.

I actually think the Sixers would be more competitive with B.I. because they'd actually have someone who can make a basket or two.

Yeah because Simmons can't score

[Kobblehead]

As in guys who were ranked as top 100 recruits going into college. I guarantee you the vast majority of teams that have that many top 100 recruits generally make the NCAA tournament, especially if they have a player of the caliber that you think Simmons is.

But to answer your question, Simmons had Victor, Quarterman, Hornsby, and Blakeny. Also, your criticism of Blakeney is hyperbole and completely unfounded. In what world is averaging nearly 13 ppg on 43% shooting with only .8 topg as a freshmen SG bust-worthy? If you think that a 5 star freshmen is a bust while putting up those numbers then you honestly don't know what you're talking about.

The bottom line is that LSU had enough talent on paper to make the tournament, especially when you consider how down of a year this was talent-wise. There's only so many truly talented basketball players and far more high-major college programs. Having 1 POY candidate and 4 other solid players is more than enough to make it into the tournament, especially when that POY candidate is supposed to possess an elite BBIQ and make his teammates better.

You're severely overrating LSU's team.

Quaterman and Hornsby were the ONLY acceptable/good players on LSU besides Simmons. Every other player on the roster was below replacement level.

My criticism of Antonio Blakeney is 100% correct and valid. If you think mediocre counting stats can excuse a guy from a 1.6 BPM, you're severely mistaken. He was awful as a freshman. An absolute albatross on the defensive end. With an offensive game nowhere near effective enough to compensate for it.

If LSU missed the tourney while having Simmons, Quarterman, Horsnby, Mickey, and Martin, you'd have a point. But Mickey and Martin turned pro last summer. Simmons was left with jack **** at LSU besides the Quarterman and Hornsby,

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

"Kobblehead"

My criticism of Antonio Blakeney is 100% correct and valid. If you think mediocre counting stats can excuse a guy from a 1.6 BPM, you're severely mistaken. He was awful as a freshman. An absolute albatross on the defensive end.

So he was a large winged bird on defense? Or a psychological burden? Or did you mean atrocity?

[Kobblehead]

"Kobblehead"

My criticism of Antonio Blakeney is 100% correct and valid. If you think mediocre counting stats can excuse a guy from a 1.6 BPM, you're severely mistaken. He was awful as a freshman. An absolute albatross on the defensive end.

So he was a large winged bird on defense? Or a psychological burden? Or did you mean atrocity?

I mean albatross....The exact word I used....

a continuing problem that makes it difficult or impossible to do or achieve something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/albatross

You seriously never heard the word albatross before? What is going on here...

[Agnostifarian]

The SEC was weak this year. Very weak. Ben Simmons could not get his team into the tournament. His teammates don't like him. He doesn't create offense in the half-court. He did not play man-to-man defense. He did not go to class. He did not have a good coach. He does not have a jumpshot. He only took 68 jump shots from beyond 12 feet during the season. His standing reach is below average for a power forward. His game did not improve during the season.

Otherwise, he met expectations at LSU.

[Kobblehead]

All these points just show that Ben Simmons is not a perfect prospect. But he's still way better than Brandon Ingram. That's the key fact that we can't lose sight of.

[Unbreakable99]

Simmons already has star level hatred lol. I love it.

[Agnostifarian]

The SEC was weak this year. Very weak. Ben Simmons could not get his team into the tournament. His teammates don't like him. He doesn't create offense in the half-court. He did not play man-to-man defense. He did not go to class. He did not have a good coach. He does not have a jumpshot. He only took 68 jump shots from beyond 12 feet during the season. His standing reach is below average for a power forward. His game did not improve during the season.

Otherwise, he met expectations at LSU.

The ACC was strong this year. Very strong. Brandon Ingram got his team into the Tournament. His teammates like him. He creates offense in the half-court by providing spacing and handling the ball on the perimeter. He played man to man defense. He went to class. He had a great coach. He is an elite shooter. His standing reach is average for a center and his wingspan is elite for a perimeter player. His game improved during the season.

Brandon Ingram is 14 months younger than Ben Simmons and he exceeded expectations at Duke.