2016 draft thread: Part 2

[john2jer]

I actually wouldnt be upset if Thon Maker was the only guy we come out of the draft with. He fits with what we need at the 4 spot.

I just wouldnt take him at 5 based on value and not because of ability.

Unless it meant we traded the #5 for a major piece coming back and a 2nd round pick to draft Thon, I'd be pissed.

[Grits n Gravy]

I actually wouldnt be upset if Thon Maker was the only guy we come out of the draft with. He fits with what we need at the 4 spot.

I just wouldnt take him at 5 based on value and not because of ability.

I've only seen what's on youtube of Maker but he looks like a center to me. He looks pretty soft and it's kind of alarming that he decided to stay in Canadian high school basketball for an extra year and apparently wasn't even dominant. Wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him if we bought a second rounder but again based on very limited youtube clips, I don't see the appeal that others do.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Maker went to Oakville because they provided the facilities for him to improve his physique and he did get stronger.

With Maker, people expected this KG/Magic hybrid type player based on his size, age and youtube highlights. However, I think he ends up more of a a face up stretch 4 that can rebound and defend (high end role player). He isnt the guy you build around, but I think he can be a guy that can fit, especially with this current team comp. He is long. He is athletic. He has range on his jumper. He's got good instincts. He's got a good motor. And he'll have plenty of time to develop playing behind KG and Bjelly.

[southern wolf]

Maker could be anything, really intriguing prospect. I could see a veteran team like the Spurs or Warriors taking a chance with him.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Maker went to Oakville because they provided the facilities for him to improve his physique and he did get stronger.

With Maker, people expected this KG/Magic hybrid type player based on his size, age and youtube highlights. However, I think he ends up more of a a face up stretch 4 that can rebound and defend (high end role player). He isnt the guy you build around, but I think he can be a guy that can fit, especially with this current team comp. He is long. He is athletic. He has range on his jumper. He's got good instincts. He's got a good motor. And he'll have plenty of time to develop playing behind KG and Bjelly.

you forgot to include Pek

[Klomp]

I think G does the same things Maker does, and its far from a guarantee Maker will do them at G's level.

[sky4it]

Buddy Hield is longer, a better rebounder, he goes to the line more, has a slightly better AS% and is a more efficient and better all-around scorer. Out of those two, Hield is certainly not the one trick pony.

The only reason why Jamal Murray is considered a combo guard is because he's a small SG with a rather short wingspan. He hasn't shown any kind of ability to run a team at the NBA level. It's people thinking Zach LaVine could play PG all over again.

I think your right too Sugarless. Its actually worse then the pathetic Lavine PG experiment, as least Lavine has a quick first step on offense. But your right, its a similar story to Lavines in many other respects. I think your also right in some of your other posts in the last few pages on the topic too.

I know that that a few analysts have him as a combo guard, but that is in college and it is a cooked story. He might just be way too slow to play the PG spot, let alone anchor it. Hes a good shooter but not a really good playmaker -distributor, especially at the next level. Murray commited more turnovers then he did assists in college. Murray has an average first step, and wasnt impressive with the ball in his hands. He was an average play maker in college and hes struggles creating high percentage offense. Wether Murray can become a PG or combo guard is a major question, not a small one.

And just so you Klomp, Dunn is NOT a combo guard, and its doubtful as sugarless suggests, that Murry will play the PG spot. Furthermore, Dunn as a PG is going to be asked to run one of the most difficult spots in all of sports, so its really doubtful that anyone is going to trot him out there as a SG, especially when he is a poor shooter. Of course, that doesnt mean 5 years from now when Dunn is a terrific defender and hes playing defense with another PG late in the game, that your "logic" has prevailed. Murray probably wont play PG for every reason that I said, and those that sugarless suggested.

[sky4it]

When it comes to the three guards, I would be very comfortable with either Jamal Murray or Kris Dunn joining Ricky Rubio and Zach LaVine in a three-guard rotation. If it's Buddy Hield, we would need to add Tyus Jones or another PG into the rotation.

BTW, Klomp, just what does this mean,,,,,,---- do you understand what you wrote?

Here's the point, If the team drafts Murray and uses a three guard rotation:

1) When Ricky Rubio is on the bench resting in the three man guard rotation, either Murray or Lavine would have to play the Point, which we know wont work. ie( the Lavine for PG was major failure, and its just as likely Murray will fail there too, who has a higher turnover rate then assist rate in college. And for all the reasons I pointed out and Sugarless pointed out.)

If the team drafts Dunn and uses a three guard rotation:

2) When Zach Lavine is on the bench either Dunn or Rubio would have to be the shooting guard. Both are substandard shooters, so we know that wont work.

And your comfortable with this. That's nice, that a team that doesnt have fit, makes you cozy.

If your going to put together a jig saw puzzle Klomp,,, at least pick out pieces that fit.

Which means none of this makes on ounce of sense. But I realize you always have to have the last word, so go ahead and have yourself.

[Worm Guts]

A quick first step like Ricky Rubio or Tyus Jones? Intelligence and feel for the game are more important than a quick first step.
And while I agree that Dunn is a PG first, I have no doubt you can get SG minutes from him because he's big enough to guard the position.

[vagelis]

Sky4it if we draft Dunn we can play with
Dunn/Lavine/Wiggins
Dunn/Wiggins/Muhammad
Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins
Rubio/Wiggins/Muhammad

You forgot that Wiggins can play sg

[jpatrick]

A quick first step like Ricky Rubio or Tyus Jones. Intelligence and feel for the game are more important than a quick first step.
And while I agree that Dunn is a PG first, I have no doubt you can get SG minutes from him because he's big enough to guard the position.

Dunn can absolute play off the ball, he just really can't do so with Rubio because neither would be guarded out to the line. That would allow teams to just clog the paint and give no room for Wiggin's and Towns to work.

[Klomp]

Not sure how I ended up being attacked in all of this.

It's funny, I get accused all the time of not letting other people have different opinions, but when I have a different opinion, it's evidently OK to attack me...

[ace625214]

I think G does the same things Maker does, and its far from a guarantee Maker will do them at G's level.

I'm not advocating we take Maker at 5 or that he'll be a better player than Gorgui, but to say G does all the stuff Maker does is either very optimistic or shows a lack of knowledge about Maker. Thon is a much better athlete than Gorgui and plays like a 2/3 in a 4/5's body. He leads breaks, hits pull-up 3s, and crosses people over on drives. I agree that Dieng has great court vision and can make some plays, but he and Maker are very dissimilar. Thon is more like Antetokounmpo than he is Dieng.

[Klomp]

Thon is a much better athlete than Gorgui and plays like a 2/3 in a 4/5's body. He leads breaks, hits pull-up 3s, and crosses people over on drives.

Against high schoolers. I'm not expecting those to be major parts of his game in the NBA.

[gopher wolf]

Whats interesting to me is how similar Bender, Skal and Maker's skill sets are as well as their levels of production (or lack thereof) yet one is a projected top 3-5 pick, the other a late lottery pick and the third a late first rounder. All 3 of them are getting drafted solely on potential and to me, Maker's flashes of greatness are easily the most impressive and IMO seem to translate the best to the NBA with Bender's being the least impressive. Maker definitely has the greatest "wow" factor of that trio.

[Worm Guts]

A quick first step like Ricky Rubio or Tyus Jones. Intelligence and feel for the game are more important than a quick first step.
And while I agree that Dunn is a PG first, I have no doubt you can get SG minutes from him because he's big enough to guard the position.

Dunn can absolute play off the ball, he just really can't do so with Rubio because neither would be guarded out to the line. That would allow teams to just clog the paint and give no room for Wiggin's and Towns to work.

That's a bigger concern, I agree.

[Dan's with the Wolves]

Sky4it if we draft Dunn we can play with
Dunn/Lavine/Wiggins
Dunn/Wiggins/Muhammad
Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins
Rubio/Wiggins/Muhammad

You forgot that Wiggins can play sg

Good point!

Need to add some lineups without Wiggins and with reasonable minutes

I would think Thib's plans to add defensive SF to the mix anyway.

[Klomp]

Since Murray evidently can't play PG according to the draft experts here, I decided to put that to the test.

Murray has a pure point rating of -2.50. Seems like a damning statistic, right? Seems like there's no chance at improvement, right? Let's put that to the test against other players currently in the NBA:

CJ McCollum, 2013, Sr.: -2.39
Jamal Murray, 2016, Fr.: -2.51
Damian Lillard, 2011, Jr.: -3.00
CJ McCollum, 2011, So.: -4.04
Elfrid Payton, 2012, Fr.: -5.00

Remember, he's a FRESHMAN! He's 19 years old. He wasn't asked to be a facilitator. Not because he can't, but because he shared the floor with someone who was first-team All-American, SEC player of the year and SEC defensive player of the year.

[fattymcgee]

When it comes to the three guards, I would be very comfortable with either Jamal Murray or Kris Dunn joining Ricky Rubio and Zach LaVine in a three-guard rotation. If it's Buddy Hield, we would need to add Tyus Jones or another PG into the rotation.

BTW, Klomp, just what does this mean,,,,,,---- do you understand what you wrote?

Here's the point, If the team drafts Murray and uses a three guard rotation:

1) When Ricky Rubio is on the bench resting in the three man guard rotation, either Murray or Lavine would have to play the Point, which we know wont work. ie( the Lavine for PG was major failure, and its just as likely Murray will fail there too, who has a higher turnover rate then assist rate in college. And for all the reasons I pointed out and Sugarless pointed out.)

If the team drafts Dunn and uses a three guard rotation:

2) When Zach Lavine is on the bench either Dunn or Rubio would have to be the shooting guard. Both are substandard shooters, so we know that wont work.

And your comfortable with this. That's nice, that a team that doesnt have fit, makes you cozy.

If your going to put together a jig saw puzzle Klomp,,, at least pick out pieces that fit.

Which means none of this makes on ounce of sense. But I realize you always have to have the last word, so go ahead and have yourself.

I think most people here would disagree with you about having Murray at the point. His ast/TO ratio was bad because he was a sg in college and his role was to score the ball.

Based on your arguments none of Ingram, Dunn, Murray, or Hield would be a fit (not would an centers) so you're saying we'd have to draft Bender if available or the next best PF prospect.

[jpatrick]

Whats interesting to me is how similar Bender, Skal and Maker's skill sets are as well as their levels of production (or lack thereof) yet one is a projected top 3-5 pick, the other a late lottery pick and the third a late first rounder. All 3 of them are getting drafted solely on potential and to me, Maker's flashes of greatness are easily the most impressive and IMO seem to translate the best to the NBA with Bender's being the least impressive. Maker definitely has the greatest "wow" factor of that trio.

One of them, Bender, also has an elite BBIQ, probably the most underrated skill in basketball. I'd also argue that he has better lateral agility for defensive purposes and the ability to put the ball down on the floor. Then you add he's about two years younger than Skal and has been playing against grown men already, you see why he's a top five pick.

I saw Maker play once, against Simmons in HS, looked clueless when it came to the subtleties of the game. Not a high BBIQ. I feel the same way about Skal, he can't really take advantage of his physical talents because he has to think too much on the court, it doesn't come natural to him. Granted, they could improve in this area, but that's a risk.