Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Kobblehead]

Ben Simmons' only two competent teammates (Hornsby and Quarterman) would be the 7th an 8th best players on Duke.

I'm not sure we can credit Brandon Ingram for getting Duke to the Tourney. Grayson Allen was both, their alpha scorer and best player, and Marshall Plumlee was their 2nd most important player.

[cksdayoff]

The SEC was weak this year. Very weak. Ben Simmons could not get his team into the tournament. His teammates don't like him. He doesn't create offense in the half-court. He did not play man-to-man defense. He did not go to class. He did not have a good coach. He does not have a jumpshot. He only took 68 jump shots from beyond 12 feet during the season. His standing reach is below average for a power forward. His game did not improve during the season.

Otherwise, he met expectations at LSU.

The ACC was strong this year. Very strong. Brandon Ingram got his team into the Tournament. His teammates like him. He creates offense in the half-court by providing spacing and handling the ball on the perimeter. He played man to man defense. He went to class. He had a great coach. He is an elite shooter. His standing reach is average for a center and his wingspan is elite for a perimeter player. His game improved during the season.

Brandon Ingram is 14 months younger than Ben Simmons and he exceeded expectations at Duke.

sold

[JDizzel3000]

Ben Simmons' only two competent teammates (Hornsby and Quarterman) would be the 7th an 8th best players on Duke.

I'm not sure we can credit Brandon Ingram for getting Duke to the Tourney. Grayson Allen was both, their alpha scorer and best player, and Marshall Plumlee was their 2nd most important player.

Gotta agree... Grayson was there best player by nearly all measures

[Mik317]

again people aren't even trying to be objective.

again if not for anything, I might be more on Ingram's side overall. But holy ****, some of the crap people are using against Simmons sucks.

"His teammates didn't like him tho?" And then using 5 top 10 recruits against him....while ignoring Duke's success there? Then the acting like he can never improve on his flaws....while Ingram totally will with ease.

This idea that in order to like a guy you need to **** all over the other to prove your point really makes this place suck. It is tiring as **** to read. This is just the latest version of this ****. Jah vs Noel. MCW hate. Turner Vs Jrue. Iggy Hate. I thought getting good would help but nope I have a feeling that many will still be niticking something.

we finally won the lottery and this board has only gotten ****.

[Unbreakable99]

Yeah. I would like to see a link to Simmons' teammates not liking him.

[Snotbubbles]

The SEC was weak this year. Very weak. Ben Simmons could not get his team into the tournament. His teammates don't like him. He doesn't create offense in the half-court. He did not play man-to-man defense. He did not go to class. He did not have a good coach. He does not have a jumpshot. He only took 68 jump shots from beyond 12 feet during the season. His standing reach is below average for a power forward. His game did not improve during the season.

Otherwise, he met expectations at LSU.

The ACC was strong this year. Very strong. Brandon Ingram got his team into the Tournament. His teammates like him. He creates offense in the half-court by providing spacing and handling the ball on the perimeter. He played man to man defense. He went to class. He had a great coach. He is an elite shooter. His standing reach is average for a center and his wingspan is elite for a perimeter player. His game improved during the season.

Brandon Ingram is 14 months younger than Ben Simmons and he exceeded expectations at Duke.

Brandon Ingram is not an elite shooter. Elite shooters don't shoot 68% from the foul line.

[Ericb5]

All these points just show that Ben Simmons is not a perfect prospect. But he's still way better than Brandon Ingram. That's the key fact that we can't lose sight of.

Agreed.

The points he made are just nibbling around the edges.

I don't claim to be any more tuned in than you guys, but I have been a die hard basketball fan for over 30 years. I have seen a lot of really talented prospects come and go. Some prove to be great, and some don't.

I would put someone like Wiggins as a guy that I wasn't sure of his greatness, but I knew he had a shot.

With Simmons it is cut and dried. He is going to be a superstar in the NBA, and furthermore he is going to be one of the icons of the league.

Ingram is in the same category as Wiggins. A great talent that has a chance to be a great player, but no sure thing.

We need to stop trying to analyze the numbers, and add up the scores for all of the individual skills. Simmons has the difficult to pin down qualities of what makes a great basketball player.

Iverson had this too, and I knew it in the spring of his sophomore year. The fact that that year I Knew Iverson to be the one sure thing in college basketball that year, and then we ended up getting the first pick, was divine providence.

This year it happened again!

Beyond what any of us think, Simmons WILL be the pick so we better start getting comfortable with it.

HE Is the player that GM's don't want to pass on. He is a perfect way for BC to put his stamp on this team. BC Is very likely to trade Okafor, which is not something that I'm thrilled about actually, but all the smoke surrounding the trading of Okafor is very telling here. He is clearing the decks for Simmons.

It is going to happen, and it is going to be great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kobblehead]

Ingram's three point stroke also benefited from having everything created for him.

95% of his 3 point field goals were assisted. Which was the highest mark of any perimeter player in the draft.

I don't think people realize how little creating Brandon Ingram did this year. Didn't create for teammates and didn't even create for himself.

I can't see how a lanky catch-and-shoot perimeter player that does little else besides hit assisted threes is being propped up in this discussion with a truly great prospect in Ben Simmons.

We WILL reach a consensus on here, eventually.

[mksp]

Ingram's three point stroke also benefited from having everything created for him.

95% of his 3 point field goals were assisted. Which was the highest mark of any perimeter player in the draft.

I don't think people realize how little creating Brandon Ingram did this year. Didn't create for teammates and didn't even create for himself.

I can't see how a lanky catch-and-shoot perimeter player that does little else besides hit assisted threes is being propped up in this discussion with a truly great prospect in Ben Simmons.

We WILL reach a consensus on here, eventually.

I like Kevin Pelton's "longer Khris Middleton" comp for him. Zeroes in on his inability to create offense for himself / others.

[Kobblehead]

It's a nice broad stroke comp for him.

When I think of Khris Middleton, I think of elite from mid-range and a solid positional facilitator, though.

I think Ingram will be average in the mid-range and an afterthought as a distributor.

I honestly think my "Harrison Barnes in Austin Day's body" tag is the perfect comparison.

[Unbreakable99]

For what it's worth Aaron McKie just said on Mike Missenelli's show that he thinks we should take Ingram. So we now have Barkley and PJ Carlisemo and McKie on team Ingram. Phil Martelli is team Simmons. Does anyone know who Jay Wright thinks we should get?

[05PhillyAI]

I think the competitiveness that BC is looking for is something along the lines of more than 10 wins, not shooting for a playoff spot.

I actually think the Sixers would be more competitive with B.I. because they'd actually have someone who can make a basket or two.

Yeah because Simmons can't score

Yes... Brandon Ingram is a better scorer than Simmons now and will be in the future

But on the real, I agree with McKie. If the Sixers are trading Okafor then they should take Simmons. If they keep Okafor, then I think it should be Ingram

[Dr Positivity]

Ingram's three point stroke also benefited from having everything created for him.

95% of his 3 point field goals were assisted. Which was the highest mark of any perimeter player in the draft.

I don't think people realize how little creating Brandon Ingram did this year. Didn't create for teammates and didn't even create for himself.

I can't see how a lanky catch-and-shoot perimeter player that does little else besides hit assisted threes is being propped up in this discussion with a truly great prospect in Ben Simmons.

We WILL reach a consensus on here, eventually.

From a neutral observer my position is you guys should take Simmons no question.

Here is what it comes down to: Simmons is ELITE at two things for his position, attacking the basket and passing for a PF. His ast/40 is one of the best for a PF prospect I've ever seen. He averages over 10 FTA/40 and 1st in the SEC and one of the highest of anyone in the NCAA. He obviously has the athleticism, ball handling and size to back up that track record.

The problem with Ingram is his top skill (shooting) he's not elite at like Simmons is a driver/passer. He's not even a top 10 overall shooter in the ACC this year. He's fringe top 10 in 3P%, around the teens in volume and not even a top 60 FT shooter. Check out this list:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBAcouchside/status/735927957903036416[/tweet]

Ingram is a decent 3pt shooting prospect but because of his FT% he is not a lights out one. 41% 3pt shooting in college with weak FT peripherals is a good number it's not an elite one. There are prospects who shoot 41% from 3 or better every year. Ingram's 3pt shooting is not a "special" skill like Simmons asts.

The stat he ranked highest for his conference is FGA/40 (ranked in the top 10). But as you said a lot of them are catch an shoot. So even there his track record isn't perfect although he has the height to take shots.

Simmons has the track record of being elite at things in the NBA. Ingram has unique length but does not have the track record of translating it into elite production in any one area at NCAA level. That's the difference.

[Kobblehead]

I appreciate the perspective and information, Doc.

[LongLiveHinkie]

That's the main thing that has me leaning slightly toward Simmons now. While I think Ingram is more of what they need and has a better chance of being a better NBA scorer, I don't think Ingram will ever be an elite scorer. He's not Durant. At the very best he's Durant-lite-lite. And even though people know this, when his name keeps being mentioned in the same breath with Durant, people probably subconsciously envision him being "a Durant" for the Sixers. He will not be a Durant. I think the Sixers can find guys like Ingram in free agency, when we eventually become a destination for free agents.

I think Simmons could be a bust, but he also could be really special if he hits his ceiling. More special than Ingram. The Sixers better dedicate every resource they have to developing him though. Like, take all the resources they put into keeping Embiid healthy in the last year, and multiply that by 100. 1,000 jumpers a day? Make that 5,000.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Btw, this might be old, but draftexpress has Simmons going #1 to us now. Ingram was slotted to us by them for ages. They also have Boston going Jaylen Brown.

[cksdayoff]

For what it's worth Aaron McKie just said on Mike Missenelli's show that he thinks we should take Ingram. So we now have Barkley and PJ Carlisemo and McKie on team Ingram. Phil Martelli is team Simmons. Does anyone know who Jay Wright thinks we should get?

the intelligent Ike Reese is also Team Ingram

[Ericb5]

That's the main thing that has me leaning slightly toward Simmons now. While I think Ingram is more of what they need and has a better chance of being a better NBA scorer, I don't think Ingram will ever be an elite scorer. He's not Durant. At the very best he's Durant-lite-lite. And even though people know this, when his name keeps being mentioned in the same breath with Durant, people probably subconsciously envision him being "a Durant" for the Sixers. He will not be a Durant. I think the Sixers can find guys like Ingram in free agency, when we eventually become a destination for free agents.

I think Simmons could be a bust, but he also could be really special if he hits his ceiling. More special than Ingram. The Sixers better dedicate every resource they have to developing him though. Like, take all the resources they put into keeping Embiid healthy in the last year, and multiply that by 100. 1,000 jumpers a day? Make that 5,000.

Can Simmons really be a bust though?

He still is going to be a menace on the court, even if he never learns to shoot.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

"Kobblehead"

My criticism of Antonio Blakeney is 100% correct and valid. If you think mediocre counting stats can excuse a guy from a 1.6 BPM, you're severely mistaken. He was awful as a freshman. An absolute albatross on the defensive end.

So he was a large winged bird on defense? Or a psychological burden? Or did you mean atrocity?

I mean albatross....The exact word I used....

a continuing problem that makes it difficult or impossible to do or achieve something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/albatross

You seriously never heard the word albatross before? What is going on here...

Are you saying that an Albatross is not a large winged bird? Have you never seen Rescuers Down Under? What's going on here? Lol, you called him an Albatross on defense! I thought it was just you being a jackass describing his wing span.

Albatross
Albatrosses, of the biological family Diomedeidae, are large seabirds allied to the procellariids, storm petrels and diving petrels in the order Procellariiformes.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birds/albatross/

[sixerswillrule]

I like Kevin Pelton's "longer Khris Middleton" comp for him. Zeroes in on his inability to create offense for himself / others.

Actually 45% of Middleton's shots this season were unassisted, identical to Leonard and Durant.