2016 draft thread: Part 2

Post #761 » by **Klomp** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:49 am

NikolaPekovic wrote:Personal thought: If the interest between Dunn and Thibs is mutual, then it must mean Thibs is not as committed to Rubio as the long term PG as some of us have initially thought.

No, it doesn't mean that.

Takingbaconback · Post #762 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:57 am

I don't see why Thibs would have any commitment to Rubio being the long term starter. I can see him having to give Rubio a year to see how things work out just because he is so popular, but he is too flawed currently and Thibs hasn't ever coached the guy. Rubio is a very good defender but Dunn brings more physicality and grittiness, which I can see Thibs liking alot. The only guys I see Thibs being tied to is KAT and Wiggins, and everybody else is a question mark with LaVine with a longer leash because of the immense potential he possesses on both ends and the improvement he made from year 1 to 2.

NikolaPekovic · Post #763 » by **NikolaPekovic** » Sat May 28, 2016 3:11 am

Klomp wrote:
NikolaPekovic wrote:Personal thought: If the interest between Dunn and Thibs is mutual, then it must mean Thibs is not as committed to Rubio as the long term PG as some of us have initially thought.

No, it doesn't mean that.

You can't keep both long term.

Post #764 » by **Klomp** » Sat May 28, 2016 3:19 am

NikolaPekovic wrote:
Klomp wrote:
NikolaPekovic wrote:Personal thought: If the interest between Dunn and Thibs is mutual, then it must mean Thibs is not as committed to Rubio as the long term PG as some of us have initially thought.

No, it doesn't mean that.

You can't keep both long term.

How long term?

jpatrick · Post #765 » by **jpatrick** » Sat May 28, 2016 3:57 am

You don't take a PG at #5 who turns 23 during his rookie season to play 15 minutes a night. If the Wolves take Dunn, I'd be shocked if Rubio is on the roster by the end of next season. They don't shoot well enough to play together.

Post #766 » by **Klomp** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:00 am

jpatrick wrote:You don't take a PG at #5 who turns 23 during his rookie season to play 15 minutes a night. If the Wolves take Dunn, I'd be shocked if Rubio is on the roster by the end of next season. They don't shoot well enough to play together.

No, you take a combo guard at 5 to play 20-25 minutes per game at both PG and SG.

Post #767 » by **Worm Guts** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:05 am

And really you could probably play Dunn closer to 20 minutes a night at point since Rubio seems to be better when his minutes are limited.

Post #768 » by **Klomp** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:20 am

Dunn reminds me a lot of Victor Oladipo

minimus · Post #769 » by **minimus** » Sat May 28, 2016 4:51 am

Klomp wrote:Dunn reminds me a lot of Victor Oladipo

It would be great if we can Oladipo type of player

NikolaPekovic · Post #770 » by **NikolaPekovic** » Sat May 28, 2016 5:27 am

Playing Dunn at SG is like playing Westbrook or John Wall at the two. You mitigate their advantages by playing them there. We aren't going to draft him to play off the ball.

moss_is_1 · Post #771 » by **moss_is_1** » Sat May 28, 2016 5:35 am

NikolaPekovic wrote:Playing Dunn at SG is like playing Westbrook or John Wall at the two. You mitigate their advantages by playing them there. We aren't going to draft him to play off the ball.

Westbrook and Wall are really different types of PG 's. Westbrook still plays with Payne from time to time and has played with Jackson.

2 pgs can play together, having another player to break down the defense is a good thing. I'm not advocating for taking Dunn, I'd rather take a shooter, but he could definitely play with Rubio if we drafted him. Why couldn't they?

NikolaPekovic · Post #772 » by **NikolaPekovic** » Sat May 28, 2016 5:56 am

moss_is_1 wrote:
NikolaPekovic wrote:Playing Dunn at SG is like playing Westbrook or John Wall at the two. You mitigate their advantages by playing them there. We aren't going to draft him to play off the ball.

Westbrook and Wall are really different types of PG 's. Westbrook still plays with Payne from time to time and has played with Jackson.

2 pgs can play together, having another player to break down the defense is a good thing. I'm not advocating for taking Dunn, I'd rather take a shooter, but he could definitely play with Rubio if we drafted him. Why couldn't they?

Thats actually incorrect. That's one major change Billy Donovan has made opposed to Scott Brooks. Westbrook doesn't play with anther PG anymore. Now they just go big with Roberson at the two. If Payne is playing he's coming in to give Westbrook a rest.

Of course Dunn and Rubio could play together. You could play play anyone together if you really wanted to. Doesn't make it a good idea. Just look at the Sixers this past season having to play Noel and Okafor at the same time. It was terrible.

No-Man · Post #773 » by **No-Man** » Sat May 28, 2016 11:41 am

I updated my Mock/Board (in the end is a combination of both) after we got the Official Early Entry List (minus internationals prospects, I am assuming that Cordinier, Papagiannis, Yusta, Slavica, Atic, Bakumanya, Birsen, Bouteille, Diop, Fall, Flaccadori, Guven, Håkansson, Jaramaz, Kaba, Loubaki, Mesicek, Sipahi, Ugurlu and Vezenkov withdraw from this Draft).

I added a 3rd round, just out of curiosity and because even if this class is difficult to foresee at the top10-15, it is deep and there are some guys I didnt want to leave out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202092/
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202102/

Like always not trying to hit with any pick, just adapting my board to the teams picking, sort of, any feedback is very much appreciated, but take into consideration that it is not a prediction.

The Wolves have only one pick and I got them going with Wade Baldwin, I have been high on him since his freshmen year and I had him lotto since January, I think he makes a ton of sense if available for Minnesota (Luwawu or Chriss are good options too), he can play as a PG but also as a 2, next to Ricky and LaVine, he brings defensive upside, shooting and the ability to be your future starting PG if things dont break right for Rubio or Jones.

Killboard · Post #774 » by **Killboard** » Sat May 28, 2016 1:46 pm

Taking dunn doesnt mean we need to trade rubio.
First all, even if dunn is 22, he will need make a 2 year adjustment to the league. I just dont see him being a contender for ROY from the gates.

Plus having 20 minutes a night is enough to be a valuable player. Bring intensity and quality play before volume numbers.

If he demostrate some way he can be a reliable shooter to end games (remember he isnt a 70%FT shooter at this point), then you can think about who has more relative value and who is easier to replace.

One good thing about ricky is that being as good as advanced stats say, he will not be a max contract. But if he demands it, then have another option in place isnt bad at all.

Merc_Porto · Post #775 » by **Merc_Porto** » Sat May 28, 2016 1:50 pm

Killboard wrote:Taking dunn doesnt mean we need to trade rubio.
First all, even if dunn is 22, he will need make a 2 year adjustment to the league.

You don't know that.

wolves_89 · Post #776 » by **wolves_89** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:05 pm

Killboard wrote:Taking dunn doesnt mean we need to trade rubio.
First all, even if dunn is 22, he will need make a 2 year adjustment to the league. I just dont see him being a contender for ROY from the gates.

Plus having 20 minutes a night is enough to be a valuable player. Bring intensity and quality play before volume numbers.

If he demostrate some way he can be a reliable shooter to end games (remember he isnt a 70%FT shooter at this point), then you can think about who has more relative value and who is easier to replace.

One good thing about ricky is that being as good as advanced stats say, he will not be a max contract. But if he demands it, then have another option in place isnt bad at all.

If the Wolves do decide to take Dunn they really need to keep Rubio as well. I can't think of a recent playoff team that had a rookie as the team's primary point guard, so even if Dunn is the future I could see him backing up Rubio for a couple of years.

Post #777 » by **Worm Guts** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:09 pm

If we take Hield or Murray do we have to trade Lavine? Seems like the same thing.

Sugarless · Post #778 » by **Sugarless** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:27 pm

mercgold3 wrote:
Killboard wrote:Taking dunn doesnt mean we need to trade rubio.
First all, even if dunn is 22, he will need make a 2 year adjustment to the league.

You don't know that.

You can't know whether a player will be 100% ready or not as a rookie, but it's a difficult task in itself for mostly anyone coming out of college, and the PG position is the hardest to master in basketball, so regardless of their BBIQ it takes real playmakers some time to adjust to the NBA and really handle the job of running a team properly (just like they peak later in average than the rest of players).

Reports are that Dunn wants to land in a place where he can secure the starting PG spot right away if possible, but no one can give him that in the first 7 spots (well, the Sixers could if they got that extra pick). It wouldn't be the worst situation for him to have a couple of seasons coming off the bench with a PG like Ricky ahead of him, though it may put them and the Timberwolves in a tough position in the future if he pans out and they still can't share the court by that time.

sky4it · Post #779 » by **sky4it** » Sat May 28, 2016 3:26 pm

vagelis wrote:Sky4it if we draft Dunn we can play with
Dunn/Lavine/Wiggins
Dunn/Wiggins/Muhammad
Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins
Rubio/Wiggins/Muhammad

You forgot that Wiggins can play sg

No I didnt forget that Wiggins can play SG. I was referencing the point to Klomp's 3 guard rotation where Wiggins was not included in the dialogue.

You forgot to read what was written.

Killboard · Post #780 » by **Killboard** » Sat May 28, 2016 3:34 pm

mercgold3 wrote:
Killboard wrote:Taking dunn doesnt mean we need to trade rubio.
First all, even if dunn is 22, he will need make a 2 year adjustment to the league.

You don't know that.

I dont. But Ricky is not a random PG. He is one of the most impactul players at his position (despite what you think about scoring woes, look at RAPM stats in the last season http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM), and Dunn value came mostly from his phyisical attributes. He still raw in several areas. I dont think is a wise idea give him starter minutes in a team that is looking for win 40 games next season being a sub 70% FT shooter and averaging 4.3 TO per40 minutes. He would improve our bench however and his efficiency would increase playing against weaker competition.

Sugarless wrote:it may put them and the Timberwolves in a tough position in the future if he pans out and they still can't share the court by that time.

That would be a great tough position to be.