"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[DakoBarr]

I like Brown. He's a rare athlete in my opinion. 7ft wingspan. Big body. Great first step. Handle and shot not outstanding, but at least they're functional and he's young. More than you can say about plenty of the athlete-first prospects. Does freakish things in the half court and transition, though he lacks consistency. Could probably play 2, 3, or 4. He'll be useful in some capacity, almost guaranteed, since he doesn't appear a liability in any area. Would be a worthy pick.

I'd rather just sign Whiteside than draft Poeltl. Is that still something that could happen? Maybe I'm behind.

[ConstableGeneva]

I like Brown. He's a rare athlete in my opinion. 7ft wingspan. Big body. Great first step. Handle and shot not outstanding, but at least they're functional and he's young. More than you can say about plenty of the athlete-first prospects. Does freakish things in the half court and transition, though he lacks consistency. Could probably play 2, 3, or 4. He'll be useful in some capacity, almost guaranteed, since he doesn't appear a liability in any area. Would be a worthy pick.

I'd rather just sign Whiteside than draft Poeltl. Is that still something that could happen? Maybe I'm behind.

Do we want to pay him his max? (He'll get that 19M+/year somewhere.) And will he prefer playing in Boston compared to Miami, LA, Houston or Dallas? There are about 10 teams who might lose their starting center in FA or could use an upgrade at the 5 but there's a shortage in supply. That's why guys like Biyombo, Dwight, Noah, Mahinmi, and Horford would still get paid more than they should.

I prefer just rolling with Amir/JJ/KO/Mickey then using the picks on bigs and hope one of them develops into a starting-caliber center within 2-3 years (ala Jokic). Or if we can get an Amir prototype replacement (someone who can provide similar defensive impact and play 32+ mpg) but on a similar 1+1 deal, that would be good too.

[DakoBarr]

I like Brown. He's a rare athlete in my opinion. 7ft wingspan. Big body. Great first step. Handle and shot not outstanding, but at least they're functional and he's young. More than you can say about plenty of the athlete-first prospects. Does freakish things in the half court and transition, though he lacks consistency. Could probably play 2, 3, or 4. He'll be useful in some capacity, almost guaranteed, since he doesn't appear a liability in any area. Would be a worthy pick.

I'd rather just sign Whiteside than draft Poeltl. Is that still something that could happen? Maybe I'm behind.

Do we want to pay him his max? (He'll get that 19M+/year somewhere.) And will he prefer playing in Boston compared to Miami, LA, Houston or Dallas? There are about 10 teams who might lose their starting center in FA or could use an upgrade at the 5 but there's a shortage in supply. That's why guys like Biyombo, Dwight, Noah, Mahinmi, and Horford would still get paid more than they should.

I prefer just rolling with Amir/JJ/KO/Mickey then using the picks on bigs and hope one of them develops into a starting-caliber center within 2-3 years (ala Jokic). Or if we can get an Amir prototype replacement (someone who can provide similar defensive impact and play 32+ mpg) but on a similar 1+1 deal, that would be good too.

I actually agree. I was just suggesting that as an alternative to selecting Poeltl, as I'm not sure giving him a big deal would be as bad as whiffing our pick on a similar player. But I'd rather draft a rim protector this year later in the draft. Diallo or Maker. Maybe Stone. There's likely several candidates. But if BPA are wings/swings, I'd just go with them. We need size but maybe we should just play Mickey more. Either way, rim protection can be had easier than some things, it seems. ATL's bigs had an easier time inside against us, but our primary issue seemed to be an alternate scorer to IT.

How likely is it Luwawu stays this low? Would be max happy if we picked him up at 16. Potential is off the charts.

[Froob]

Did you watch the game? Gonzaga double teamed and played team defense to deny Poeltl the Ball. Poeltl also had a tweaked ankle. Poeltl got into foul trouble in the first half and after he went out Gonzaga broke out. What is so great about Bender? Fab Melo had more tuffness and vertical explosion. Bender idol is Toni Kukoc. He is basically an outside shooter at the moment.

Edit I dont want be to negative towards Bender. He does have very good mobility for being 7'1". He seems like a good kid also. He is only 18 and his toughness should improve. I just feel that Poeltl is being slept on.

Yes I watched the game. Injuries, double teams, foul trouble, Etc, Poeltl was a non factor.

I saw Poeltl a about 5 times and he was decent at best in a weak conference. He is like KO and Zeller when it comes to rebounding. The ball has to fall in his hands for him to rebound. He doesn't go after the ball.

Poeltl is projected to go from 7-14 and that's more than a good spot for him. He can play but he has no fight in him. He is currently working out in Thousand Oaks, CA in Don MacLean's camp. Reports are he has shown improvement.

Bender is a twig right now so Poeltl will have his way with him. But in 2 years when Bender is 7'2 and about 20-30 pounds heavier and much stronger than he is now, Poeltl won't have it as easy with Bender.

Poeltl was the go to guy on his team. The Pac 12 isnt a weak conference. He played well against Duke two seasons in a row. He is a very good rebounder. He shut down Okafor in last years sweet sixteen. Don Mclean does a very good job preparing prospects for the NBA. Last season Mclean help KAT transform his body which help him have a dominate rookie season.

Bender has shown nothing. He wants to be a small forward like Kukoc. What if Bender puts on 25 pounds and his max vertical gets even worse? Its very dangerous to pick based only on supposed potential. You pick based on potential later in the draft. If you pick 3 and the player busts the GM could get fired.

Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.

[BfB]

Yes I watched the game. Injuries, double teams, foul trouble, Etc, Poeltl was a non factor.

I saw Poeltl a about 5 times and he was decent at best in a weak conference. He is like KO and Zeller when it comes to rebounding. The ball has to fall in his hands for him to rebound. He doesn't go after the ball.

Poeltl is projected to go from 7-14 and that's more than a good spot for him. He can play but he has no fight in him. He is currently working out in Thousand Oaks, CA in Don MacLean's camp. Reports are he has shown improvement.

Bender is a twig right now so Poeltl will have his way with him. But in 2 years when Bender is 7'2 and about 20-30 pounds heavier and much stronger than he is now, Poeltl won't have it as easy with Bender.

Poeltl was the go to guy on his team. The Pac 12 isnt a weak conference. He played well against Duke two seasons in a row. He is a very good rebounder. He shut down Okafor in last years sweet sixteen. Don Mclean does a very good job preparing prospects for the NBA. Last season Mclean help KAT transform his body which help him have a dominate rookie season.

Bender has shown nothing. He wants to be a small forward like Kukoc. What if Bender puts on 25 pounds and his max vertical gets even worse? Its very dangerous to pick based only on supposed potential. You pick based on potential later in the draft. If you pick 3 and the player busts the GM could get fired.

Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.

Just for the record, Bender has played in a bunch of age apropriate competition and beasted. College guys play vs college guys and we are fine evaluating them even though almost none do **** their first few years vs adults. Yet, Bender continues to get shelled for his play vs adults while his junior level stuff is ignored....just ignorant...

[No-Man]

I updated my Mock/Board (in the end is a combination of both) after we got the Official Early Entry List (minus internationals prospects, I am assuming that Cordinier, Papagiannis, Yusta, Slavica, Atic, Bakumanya, Birsen, Bouteille, Diop, Fall, Flaccadori, Guven, Håkansson, Jaramaz, Kaba, Loubaki, Mesicek, Sipahi, Ugurlu and Vezenkov withdraw from this Draft).

I added a 3rd round, just out of curiosity and because even if this class is difficult to foresee at the top10-15, it is deep and there are some guys I didnt want to leave out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202092/
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202102/

Like always not trying to hit with any pick, just adapting my board to the teams picking, sort of, any feedback is very much appreciated, but take into consideration that it is not a prediction.

I got BOS picking, although I know you will sell/trade some picks, Bender, Bembry, Zimmerman, Zizic, Zagorac, Damian Jones, Zipser and Julian Jacobs with your 8 picks, tons of intls prospects, several bigs and Fs and a defensive team-oriented Guard that has some of the traits Stevens like+underrated athleticism in Jacobs.

[SmartWentCrazy]

J. Brown disappeared in the tournament. During games, he would have 5 minute stretches where you didn't know he was in the game. Jeff Green anyone.

Brown wasn't even the best freshmen on his team over the last month of the season. That honor belonged to Ivan Rabb.

We can get our SF at 16 with T. Prince.

So did Jabari Parker vs Mercer. Sometimes overweighting the tournament makes sense, but sometimes it's just one poorly timed bad game.

[Gant]

Austin Ainge has been to Europe several times scouting players.

Now, Austin and his dad go to see Zizic and fly to Israel to spend a few days watching Bender practice.

Meanwhile it's workout season. Temporarily holding off workouts in a year with 8 picks to fly overseas to see these players means the Celtics are extremely serious about these two prospects. The Ainges are very interested and are making sure.

They're not over there looking for reasons to draft them; they're over there looking for any reason to not draft them.


If the picks are kept and the players available in their slots, both Bender and Zizic could easily be drafted by Boston. It would be harder to find any names in this draft that are more likely than these two.

[sam_I_am]

Poeltl was the go to guy on his team. The Pac 12 isnt a weak conference. He played well against Duke two seasons in a row. He is a very good rebounder. He shut down Okafor in last years sweet sixteen. Don Mclean does a very good job preparing prospects for the NBA. Last season Mclean help KAT transform his body which help him have a dominate rookie season.

Bender has shown nothing. He wants to be a small forward like Kukoc. What if Bender puts on 25 pounds and his max vertical gets even worse? Its very dangerous to pick based only on supposed potential. You pick based on potential later in the draft. If you pick 3 and the player busts the GM could get fired.

Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.

Just for the record, Bender has played in a bunch of age apropriate competition and beasted. College guys play vs college guys and we are fine evaluating them even though almost none do **** their first few years vs adults. Yet, Bender continues to get shelled for his play vs adults while his junior level stuff is ignored....just ignorant...

Why is Bender so much more heralded than Chriss? I get that he is longer and his passing is superior. But Chriss is very young, new to basketball, has impressive hops and runs well .... but most interestingly has a great face to the basket game. He reminds me of Myles Turner but much more athletic and looks smooth and natural running unlike Turner. Is it because he played at Washington?

When you watch their respective videos at DE, Chriss looks like a major talent.

EDIT: following post answers my question. Chriss is rising and now 8 on DE. 4-8 seems like an even tier right now unless Dunn joins Top 3 as some are rumoring.

[radcot]

In addition to moving Brown above Bender, the new DraftExpress mock has some other eyebrow raising changes: for instance, D. Jones moving up to 14, Chriss up to 8, Baldwin up to 12 -- and most startling (to me) D. Valentine dropping to 20. Anyone know anything about Prince Ibeh, the late-blooming defensive-specialist UT center that DE has us taking at 51?

[Homerclease]

I updated my Mock/Board (in the end is a combination of both) after we got the Official Early Entry List (minus internationals prospects, I am assuming that Cordinier, Papagiannis, Yusta, Slavica, Atic, Bakumanya, Birsen, Bouteille, Diop, Fall, Flaccadori, Guven, Håkansson, Jaramaz, Kaba, Loubaki, Mesicek, Sipahi, Ugurlu and Vezenkov withdraw from this Draft).

I added a 3rd round, just out of curiosity and because even if this class is difficult to foresee at the top10-15, it is deep and there are some guys I didnt want to leave out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202092/
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202102/

Like always not trying to hit with any pick, just adapting my board to the teams picking, sort of, any feedback is very much appreciated, but take into consideration that it is not a prediction.

I got BOS picking, although I know you will sell/trade some picks, Bender, Bembry, Zimmerman, Zizic, Zagorac, Damian Jones, Zipser and Julian Jacobs with your 8 picks, tons of intls prospects, several bigs and Fs and a defensive team-oriented Guard that has some of the traits Stevens like+underrated athleticism in Jacobs.

It's hard to take your stuff seriously when you have Wade Baldwin in the top 5, Murray sliding to 17 and Skal sliding all the way to the 2nd round. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into these things but these whacky out of left field predictions to try to play smartest guy in the room severely hurt your credibility.

[sam_I_am]

Austin Ainge has been to Europe several times scouting players.

Now, Austin and his dad go to see Zizic and fly to Israel to spend a few days watching Bender practice.

Meanwhile it's workout season. Temporarily holding off workouts in a year with 8 picks to fly overseas to see these players means the Celtics are extremely serious about these two prospects. The Ainges are very interested and are making sure.

They're not over there looking for reasons to draft them; they're over there looking for any reason to not draft them.


If the picks are kept and the players available in their slots, both Bender and Zizic could easily be drafted by Boston. It would be harder to find any names in this draft that are more likely than these two.

I wonder if it's an either/or situation. If Zizic looks close enough and can be had at 23 then maybe they take Hield or Chriss etc. instead or trade out. If Bender looks too good to pass on they take him at 3.

[SmartWentCrazy]

In addition to moving Brown above Bender, the new DraftExpress mock has some other eyebrow raising changes: for instance, D. Jones moving up to 14, Chriss up to 8, Baldwin up to 12 -- and most startling (to me) D. Valentine dropping to 20. Anyone know anything about Prince Ibeh, the late-blooming defensive-specialist UT center that DE has us taking at 51?

DX is very plugged in with agents, and they shape their mocks based on what they hear. Some of it is silly season, but some of it is honest and candid feedback. Their ability to be plugged in with agents is why their mock is so close in the days prior to the draft.

[lon3lytoaster]

Austin Ainge has been to Europe several times scouting players.

Now, Austin and his dad go to see Zizic and fly to Israel to spend a few days watching Bender practice.

Meanwhile it's workout season. Temporarily holding off workouts in a year with 8 picks to fly overseas to see these players means the Celtics are extremely serious about these two prospects. The Ainges are very interested and are making sure.

They're not over there looking for reasons to draft them; they're over there looking for any reason to not draft them.


If the picks are kept and the players available in their slots, both Bender and Zizic could easily be drafted by Boston. It would be harder to find any names in this draft that are more likely than these two.

I wonder if it's an either/or situation. If Zizic looks close enough and can be had at 23 then maybe they take Hield or Chriss etc. instead or trade out. If Bender looks too good to pass on they take him at 3.

I think scouting them both consecutively is interesting. We'll have the opportunity to take them both at 3 and 23. They're both young international guys maybe they're looking to take both to smooth out the transition to the US?

[Leprechaun18]

Austin Ainge has been to Europe several times scouting players.

Now, Austin and his dad go to see Zizic and fly to Israel to spend a few days watching Bender practice.

Meanwhile it's workout season. Temporarily holding off workouts in a year with 8 picks to fly overseas to see these players means the Celtics are extremely serious about these two prospects. The Ainges are very interested and are making sure.

They're not over there looking for reasons to draft them; they're over there looking for any reason to not draft them.


If the picks are kept and the players available in their slots, both Bender and Zizic could easily be drafted by Boston. It would be harder to find any names in this draft that are more likely than these two.

Well maybe the Ainges have already made up their minds and want Bender at 3. If so that makes Danny's taking Brad Stevens opinion into account a lie. It would also make him stupid IMO, but last season he wanted to the trade 4 first rounders (including this years nets pick) to move up to 10 from 16, so maybe he has fallen in love with Bender. I think he went there to scout and maybe set up a workout. Anyways player workouts are gonna start soon. Thats usually the time when GMs seem to fall in love with players. The mock drafts should change a bit in the next two weeks. I think there will be a lot of surprises this draft. Notice how peeps are moving M.Chriss up after seeing him workout. Its also a deep draft IMO and the guys at the top Simmons (not good shooter) and Ingram (rail thin) have flaws.

[Bluewhale]

To: Gant
I think it's safe to assume Austin Ainge love Bender, but he need to convince Danny Ainge in the trip.

Last time he failed to do so in the trip for Greece Freak

[No-Man]

It's hard to take your stuff seriously when you have Wade Baldwin in the top 5, Murray sliding to 17 and Skal sliding all the way to the 2nd round. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into these things but these whacky out of left field predictions to try to play smartest guy in the room severely hurt your credibility.

First I am not making any predictions, I stated that quite clearly if you bothered reading my post, I know that some guys wont go where I project them to, I am try to get as close as possible, by my rankings (based on tape and stats), to the end result of the draft when all it's said and done, careers-wise.

You can take it as seriously as you wanna, I am not trying to be the smartest guy in any room, or make weird predictions I have been consistent in having guys like Murray (never cracked my top10, only in one Mock I made trying to actually predict some where I put him 6th to NOLA I think, or 7th), Hield (never cracked the lotto in any of my Mocks) or Skal (have had him in the 25-40 range since forever), to name some, lower than the perceived consensus all year long, from the get-go, and I have had Baldwin lotto since January and high on my board since the start of the season, same with Luwawu, Zubac, Hernangómez, Chriss, or Robert Carter Jr.

Consensus about players is dumb per se, and is one of the reason why some guys get overdrafted and others are underrated, even GM and FOs, the laziest ones, get to believe all the crap that is spat out there by influential fans/bloggers and media members and follow that lead, the Draft shouldnt be about predicting or agreeing on guys (other than maybe the top ones or when is crystal clear that a guy is the top prospect). I want to need to discuss about prospects and projections and have to fight even with my own guts and beliefs to get the picture as right as possible, when someone says that a guy is a consensus top5 pick it makes me cringe.

Especially in this class where after the top6-7 guys everything is really open (and nope, neither Murray, nor Hield will make my top6-7) I can wipe my ass with the consensus draft predictions, especially if you are talking about guys like Ford, or whomever is in charge of NBADraft.net that are absolutely clueless in terms of basketball evaluation.

And again, Buddy Hield might very well go anywhere from 6th to 8th overall and Murray might go from 4th to 6th, that's not the game I am playing at all.
If you want to enter into why they dont rate as high for me, that's another argument, but stating that I lose some credibility because my rankings are not equal to other site's ones is just been lazy.

[Curmudgeon]

It's hard to take your stuff seriously when you have Wade Baldwin in the top 5, Murray sliding to 17 and Skal sliding all the way to the 2nd round. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into these things but these whacky out of left field predictions to try to play smartest guy in the room severely hurt your credibility.

I too have problems with this mock but I have issues with the "consensus" mocks too. Why even bother to produce one if it's going to look like all of the others?

Except for Wade Baldwin his top 9 looks pretty good to me, and Friscella's mock more accurately reflects the value of Murray and Hield, who IMHO are WAY overrated in most of the other mock drafts. On the other hand, Zizic and Damian Jones are way too low in Friscilla's draft.

[JMac1]

I like Brown. He's a rare athlete in my opinion. 7ft wingspan. Big body. Great first step. Handle and shot not outstanding, but at least they're functional and he's young. More than you can say about plenty of the athlete-first prospects. Does freakish things in the half court and transition, though he lacks consistency. Could probably play 2, 3, or 4. He'll be useful in some capacity, almost guaranteed, since he doesn't appear a liability in any area. Would be a worthy pick.

I'd rather just sign Whiteside than draft Poeltl. Is that still something that could happen? Maybe I'm behind.

Solid. I think that is why he is mocked so high. I like most don't want any part of him because the critics were extra hard on him and I don't think most (including me) can see him growing as a player past this season, which could be a big mistake if he achieves is potential a becomes the player you think he can.

Brown, Dunn, Ingram, and Simmons and maybe Bender are the only two-way potential players in this draft. It's funny, Dunn has shown the best propensity to display both set of offensive and defensive skills this year, then Ingram, Simmons, Bender (small sample size and vids), and Brown in that order.

[Writebloc]

I updated my Mock/Board (in the end is a combination of both) after we got the Official Early Entry List (minus internationals prospects, I am assuming that Cordinier, Papagiannis, Yusta, Slavica, Atic, Bakumanya, Birsen, Bouteille, Diop, Fall, Flaccadori, Guven, Håkansson, Jaramaz, Kaba, Loubaki, Mesicek, Sipahi, Ugurlu and Vezenkov withdraw from this Draft).

I added a 3rd round, just out of curiosity and because even if this class is difficult to foresee at the top10-15, it is deep and there are some guys I didnt want to leave out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202092/
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202102/

Like always not trying to hit with any pick, just adapting my board to the teams picking, sort of, any feedback is very much appreciated, but take into consideration that it is not a prediction.

I got BOS picking, although I know you will sell/trade some picks, Bender, Bembry, Zimmerman, Zizic, Zagorac, Damian Jones, Zipser and Julian Jacobs with your 8 picks, tons of intls prospects, several bigs and Fs and a defensive team-oriented Guard that has some of the traits Stevens like+underrated athleticism in Jacobs.

It's hard to take your stuff seriously when you have Wade Baldwin in the top 5, Murray sliding to 17 and Skal sliding all the way to the 2nd round. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into these things but these whacky out of left field predictions to try to play smartest guy in the room severely hurt your credibility.

I was thinking the exact same thing! No way those players either jump that high or slide that low. I can understand being low on Hield but to think he slides to falls to the 20's is ludicrous. Maybe I don't understand your metrics or parameters but this seems a bit out of whack?