NavLDO wrote:saintEscaton wrote:Waylay13 wrote:
The only way in which Valentine can play the 1 or 2 is if he doesnt guard anyone. While he may have skills to cover for being short and nonathletic at small forward everywhere else he is going to be in major trouble.
How are they even comparable Jah is already an elite high volume scorer, he recorded the 6th highest TS% ever on a usage rate above 25%. Valentine is a best a homeless man's swingman version of Draymond Green, Evan Turner who can shoot a lick. Maybe he can play the small ball 4 in spurts but he's not gunna run the point the next level and most of his scoring came assisted. Or if he reworks himself into a spot up SG maybe a Danny Green with better playmaking skills but not as lockdown of a perimeter defender but his length isn't enough to compensate. Even entertaining Valentine with our first pick is lunacy IMO
I've been called worse, so if I'm a 'lunatic', so be it. But just like you can claim a 'one-off' stat on Okafor, I can do the same with Valentine--the 1st player to have a "19-7-7" season since they started keeping these stats since 1984--see, we an all produce something special about just about an of the top prospects. Then there's "his 45.8 assist percentage, the second best in the country," which is another impressive stat. "His 21.2 percent defensive rebounding rate ranked third in the nation among any guard..." is another. And since you like TS% how about Valentine's 61.5% (vs Okafor's 64%) and Valentine "lives farther from the rim". And question of his athleticism are greatly exaggerated. I'll say it again, if he's so poor athletically, how did he "wipe the floor" with the other prospects in the lane agility drill?
Yes, I know he lacks a burst, and his defense is atrocious, but to me, his positives outweigh his negatives, and in a weak draft, if we haven't traded the pick, and Bender is gone, I'd rather they go with a surefire 6th-man type with great versatility, then a PG who can't shoot or a Shooting Guard who's only just that, when we have that already, and who isn't any better than Valentine in any area. Dunn is, to use your vernacular, "at best, a homeless man's" version of Bledsoe. I'll take the guy that's the 'homeless' version of Draymond Green over Bledsoe. And while I was on the Brown 'hype-train' for awhile, but the latest reports on him are concerning. Leaving, who, exactly, would be best for us at 4th overall if Bender is indeed gone. Which is why I'd be ok with Valentine at 4.
But IRT Valentine, here are some quotes from some "talking heads" that don't know much more than us, (except the 1st one--I think that guy knows a thing or two about basketball), but still:"He's like myself and Draymond [Green] because he can just do everything," Magic Johnson said. "He can rebound, score, assist and he gets so much joy out of setting his teammates up. His basketball IQ was already off the charts when he came to Michigan State, but the way he's shooting the basketball right now is amazing."But the dude simply knows how to play. He is incredibly versatile as a playmaker, and has a great jumper with NBA range. A smart team will land him and reap the rewards later in the draft that you’d expect.Valentine is a tough guy to place right now. Based on his production this season, he should probably be in the top seven or so players.What should translate is his shooting ability. Valentine can shoot from deep, pulling up or coming off screens. He also has good size to be a decent rebounder....which gives us flashbacks to Draymond Green’s days with Tom Izzo. Green and Valentine aren’t the same player at all, but I think Valentine has all of the tools to be effective in the NBA. He can shoot, which is obviously a hot commodity in today’s NBA.His averages across the board – 19.2 points, 7.5 rebounds and 7.8 assists – were superb, but the most telling stat could be his 45.8 assist percentage, the second best in the country.In a league that demands more playmakers spread across the offense, Valentine's court-awareness and proven success in a motion offense cannot be undersold. Valentine wasn't even supposed to be the primary ball-handler for the Spartans this year; he took over due to injury, and morphed into one of the best floor leaders in the country.Regardless, it’s his maturity, versatility and his innate ability to oversee a game...A combination guard with a handle and high-level shooting accuracy...His 21.2 percent defensive rebounding rate ranked third in the nation among any guard...Lastly, his size will allow him to defend most shooting guards and small forwards at the next level, given his 6'5.75" height in shoes and 6'10.75" wingspan.Valentine can struggle to create his own offense. While he may never be a great playmaker for himself, he's smart enough to avoid putting himself in one on one situations and will instead target other mismatches on the floor.14.8% turnover rate, which equated to a near 3/1 assist-to-turnover ratio.
NEGATIVES (with questions/comments in parenthesis):(Isn't that something than can be coached up?? Or is this 'what you see is what you get??)Valentine lost focus on both ends at times. He was mainly a culprit of ball watching when on defense and losing track of his man.(I find it comical that the author just 'glosses over' his Lane Agility Drill. Yes, he tested below-average, but hardly 'abysmal')Valentine's shuttle run, 3/4 court sprint, standing vertical jump, and max vertical leap all placed a poor light on his athletic profile.
But at the end of the day, I find it difficult to comprehend how selecting this player at 4th overall is no sheer lunacy, but selecting Valentine would be:.Still, watch Dunn play and the results are wildly inconsistent. At times, he'll make shots that fall effortlessly through the hoop; at other times, he'll miss, wildly, to the left or right, shooting airballs that make you wonder how much progress he's actually made on his shot. In terms of form, there's still quite a bit of extra motion in his shot, and his balance is questionable at times as well, with the plant, angle of jump, and landing seemingly changing from shot to shot, even when not under duress
over....One skill which will translate to the league is his shooting. Valentine isn’t as good of a shooter as Buddy Hield, but he’s even better as an off-ball operator. He loves getting his defenders caught on screens and leaping out to receive an open look. He has a lighting quick release and he shoots on the way up, meaning he’s going to be a solid offensive spacer regardless of whether he ever dribbles the ball
...and...
"Running off screens, stop-and-pops, catch-and-shoots, step-backs—Valentine is a versatile shot-maker with a quick release and the ability to convert contested looks."
Adam Morrison was one of the greatest college scorers of all time. So was Doug McDermott. I can find 1sts for them too. Productivity in college is not the best way to evaluate these guys imo.
I like Valentine, but not over a lot of others in this draft. I think 4 is way too high for him.
Plus 10000000000000000 I was going to mention this, but I felt I was monopolizing the draft board (on summer vacation 
). He changes directions on a dime, keeps his feet in an athletic stance no matter how fast he is going when he changes directions, that means he has good balance, a strong core and base. Also, my man can contort like a cat in small spaces. Shifty as hell. 
Hanging on to that last thread of relevancy IMO. Yesterday Brown was dropping like a rock, all of a sudden "Could be a top 3 pick" 
. If we have a shot to get Okafor which I believe we do... (more so than the Celtics, why would they trade him to a division rival) it needs to get done no questions asked.