ImageImageImage

Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

Simmons or Ingram

Simmons
137
56%
Ingram
106
44%
 
Total votes: 243

Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1621 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 5:24 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:Rebounding can be overrated in a prospect, especially if that prospect is a non shooter at a position where he is needed to shoot. Simmons is projected as a point forward, he needs to be able to shoot. Take a look at the top 10 rebounders in the NBA during the 15-16 season, they are on a bunch of non playoff teams and teams that are non contenders. At the present moment Simmons looks like a 6'10" Evan Turner. A part of Evan Turner's game that was overlooked as a prospect that quickly became glaringly apparent in the NBA is that he was physically not a plus athlete for the position in comparison to NBA players. Simmons doesn't appear to have very much of an athletic advantage over the typical starting NBA PF/SF. Where he separates himself is coordination off the dribble for a player so large. But how does that work against the larger true SFs in the league that are accustomed to guarding perimeter players? When they sag off of him what happens then?


A 6'10 Evan Turner :roll: I guess he shouldn't even go top 10 :roll: I guess Ingram and Dunn and Bender and Brown and Murray and Hield should all go ahead of him :roll:
User avatar
SelfishPlayer
General Manager
Posts: 7,549
And1: 3,368
Joined: May 23, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1622 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun May 29, 2016 5:32 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Rebounding can be overrated in a prospect, especially if that prospect is a non shooter at a position where he is needed to shoot. Simmons is projected as a point forward, he needs to be able to shoot. Take a look at the top 10 rebounders in the NBA during the 15-16 season, they are on a bunch of non playoff teams and teams that are non contenders. At the present moment Simmons looks like a 6'10" Evan Turner. A part of Evan Turner's game that was overlooked as a prospect that quickly became glaringly apparent in the NBA is that he was physically not a plus athlete for the position in comparison to NBA players. Simmons doesn't appear to have very much of an athletic advantage over the typical starting NBA PF/SF. Where he separates himself is coordination off the dribble for a player so large. But how does that work against the larger true SFs in the league that are accustomed to guarding perimeter players? When they sag off of him what happens then?


A 6'10 Evan Turner :roll: I guess he shouldn't even go top 10 :roll: I guess Ingram and Dunn and Bender and Brown and Murray and Hield should all go ahead of him :roll:


Evan Turner went #2 overall and another failed point forward with a broken jump shot by the name of Billy Owens went #3 overall. I don't think that Simmons is exempt from failing in the NBA for the same reasons that former high lottery picks have failed.
SelfishPlayer wrote:The Mavs won playoff games without Luka

The Mavs missed the playoffs without Brunson.
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1623 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 5:34 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Rebounding can be overrated in a prospect, especially if that prospect is a non shooter at a position where he is needed to shoot. Simmons is projected as a point forward, he needs to be able to shoot. Take a look at the top 10 rebounders in the NBA during the 15-16 season, they are on a bunch of non playoff teams and teams that are non contenders. At the present moment Simmons looks like a 6'10" Evan Turner. A part of Evan Turner's game that was overlooked as a prospect that quickly became glaringly apparent in the NBA is that he was physically not a plus athlete for the position in comparison to NBA players. Simmons doesn't appear to have very much of an athletic advantage over the typical starting NBA PF/SF. Where he separates himself is coordination off the dribble for a player so large. But how does that work against the larger true SFs in the league that are accustomed to guarding perimeter players? When they sag off of him what happens then?


A 6'10 Evan Turner :roll: I guess he shouldn't even go top 10 :roll: I guess Ingram and Dunn and Bender and Brown and Murray and Hield should all go ahead of him :roll:


Evan Turner went #2 overall and another failed point forward with a broken jump shot by the name of Billy Owens went #3 overall. I don't think that Simmons is exempt from failing in the NBA for the same reasons that former high lottery picks have failed.


So based off what you say then you don't think Simmons should even go top ten because Evan Turner would not go top ten if there was a re-draft :roll:
eagereyez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,991
And1: 4,462
Joined: May 05, 2012
   

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1624 » by eagereyez » Sun May 29, 2016 5:34 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Just to put it into a little context, here are some skinny guys in the NBA:

Paul George FR Fresno St: 69.7% FT NBA Career: 83.8% FT
Rudy Gay FR UConn:........70.8% FT NBA:..........79.3% FT
Otto Porter FR Gtown:.....70.2% FT NBA:..........74.2% FT
Tayshaun Prince FR UK:....65.6% FT NBA:..........75.6% FT

Some other guys

Isaiah Thomas FR Wash:.....68.6% FT NBA:..........86.3% FT
Rodney Hood FR Miss St:....65.9% FT NBA:..........83.2% FT
Kawhi Leonard FR SDST:....72.6% FT NBA:..........82.8% FT

Thank god these guys are allowed to improve in the pros. And for all those afraid of Kris Dunn's FT%, Isaiah was 68.6% FR year, 73.2% SO year, and 71.9% JR year. Now he's about 15% better in the pros.


The FT issue isn't an issue. Maybe he's not used to shooting free throws in front of 15-25K crowds.

I don't think anyone said that neither of these guys will become better shooters. The argument is that for college guys, FT% is a better indicator of shooting ability than 3P%. This is pretty true when you look at the league as a whole. The best shooters have always been automatic from the line. This is why I don't think Ingram will be a Durant/Curry level scorer in the NBA. Paul George or Kawhi Leonard would be more realistic ceilings. Also, Dunn's FT% has remained the same since his freshman year in college. I'm dubious of the idea that he will make significant improvements there.
User avatar
SelfishPlayer
General Manager
Posts: 7,549
And1: 3,368
Joined: May 23, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1625 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun May 29, 2016 5:40 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
A 6'10 Evan Turner :roll: I guess he shouldn't even go top 10 :roll: I guess Ingram and Dunn and Bender and Brown and Murray and Hield should all go ahead of him :roll:


Evan Turner went #2 overall and another failed point forward with a broken jump shot by the name of Billy Owens went #3 overall. I don't think that Simmons is exempt from failing in the NBA for the same reasons that former high lottery picks have failed.


So based off what you say then you don't think Simmons should even go top ten because Evan Turner would not go top ten if there was a re-draft :roll:


What is a "re-draft?" :crazy:
SelfishPlayer wrote:The Mavs won playoff games without Luka

The Mavs missed the playoffs without Brunson.
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1626 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:08 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Evan Turner went #2 overall and another failed point forward with a broken jump shot by the name of Billy Owens went #3 overall. I don't think that Simmons is exempt from failing in the NBA for the same reasons that former high lottery picks have failed.


So based off what you say then you don't think Simmons should even go top ten because Evan Turner would not go top ten if there was a re-draft :roll:


What is a "re-draft?" :crazy:


If they did the 2010 draft over knowing what we know now then Turner wouldn't go top 10. So if you say Simmons is just a taller Evan Turner then you don't even think he should go top 10.
User avatar
SelfishPlayer
General Manager
Posts: 7,549
And1: 3,368
Joined: May 23, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1627 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun May 29, 2016 6:15 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
So based off what you say then you don't think Simmons should even go top ten because Evan Turner would not go top ten if there was a re-draft :roll:


What is a "re-draft?" :crazy:


If they did the 2010 draft over knowing what we know now then Turner wouldn't go top 10. So if you say Simmons is just a taller Evan Turner then you don't even think he should go top 10.


Ingram should go #1 when the Sixers select.
SelfishPlayer wrote:The Mavs won playoff games without Luka

The Mavs missed the playoffs without Brunson.
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 41,288
And1: 19,919
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In Spain...without the S
       

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1628 » by Mik317 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:23 pm

again I think a 6'10 Evan Turner is a weird comp. the 6'10 part makes up for many of Turner's issues (finishing for one) and Turner has been pretty effective since leaving here too. SImmons is however a much better athlete, has a much better first step (super important) and his jumper doesn't look as broken as Evan's (who btw has improved some over the years too). Plus Simmons more than likely will go into a situation as the man unlike Turner who was pretty much benched from day 1. The 6'10 Rondo crack also is silly...especially since Rondo was a major part of a championship squad.

People are acting like being a 6'10 ballhandler is some everyday ****. It is a definite advantage. This doesn't change the fact that yes Simmons has somethings he needs to work on to be great...but that is every prospect in this draft. I really feel like people are over analyzing things at times. Yes, he has flaws. Potentially deadly ones even. But how bout you look at what he can do? What will actually translate and if that alone is worth it. Yes we need shooters like crazy...but we also need creators..if not more so. The team looked like rabid ass until Ish Smith arrived...why? Because he could create. poorly it turned out...but that was still better than nothing. Even without a jumper, Simmons replacing Noel and Jah as the top of the key passer alone will help out offense. Having someone who can get a board and fly up the court also helps because it helps us play to our strengths on the break instead of halfcourt. Will there be times where teams neutralize him via playing the "go ahead shoot you dope" game? yeah. Again he will need to find a way to become at least someone teams have to care about...but people need to start looking at the positives sometimes instead of just zeroing in on the negatives all the damn time.

Again I really don't care what we do this offseason in terms of choosing between those two, choosing between Jah and Noel. Those twp choices both can work out and backfire for us. Unlike many of you, I won't claim to have all the answers and totally know how those choices will turn out. It doesn't work that way. This time last year we was totally going to take Russell. A Few years back, Turner was totally going to be Brandon Roy 2.0. Giannis was never going to be a PG (or any good according to some). It is fun to speculate. It is fine to have factually backed opinions on how things turn out...but can we please stop acting like anything is a near lock to turn out a certain way? For all we know Bender could end up being Basketball Jesus with no flaws. Ingram could have another growth spurt and become brolic as hell. Simmons could figure out that his left hand has the hax powers of Curry and turn into a knock down shooter. Is it likely? Probably not. But it has just as much chance as any of the negative views people have thrown out over the last few weeks. These are 18-20 year old kids...not even close to their primes. Can we stop capping their potential before they even hit the NBA floor? The NBA game is crazy different from College. The extra space, the better teammates, better coaches (most of the time herp derp), NBA workout facilities, and full focus on just playing ball (for the most part)....all of this could be a big boon to a lot of dudes. Wiggins for example, while he still has some of the drive issues he had at Kansas, is able to get to the rim and into the paint far easier than he ever could in college. This is the extra spacing at work.

so again...relax. It is fun to speculate and I love reading it..but I think some people are going a bit too far in their crusade for their guy, that they are missing the point.
#NeverGonnaBeGood
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1629 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:29 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
What is a "re-draft?" :crazy:


If they did the 2010 draft over knowing what we know now then Turner wouldn't go top 10. So if you say Simmons is just a taller Evan Turner then you don't even think he should go top 10.


Ingram should go #1 when the Sixers select.


But you think Simmons shouldn't go top ten though since he's a taller Evan Turner. I can't believe you would take Dunn and Murray and Hield and Bender over him as well. Smh.
Ericb5
RealGM
Posts: 10,303
And1: 3,377
Joined: Jan 08, 2014
       

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1630 » by Ericb5 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:44 pm

Simmons is a born superstar, and Turner didn't become a really good player until his junior year in college. They are on completely different levels.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1631 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:49 pm

[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/BF_6OtthYpN/[/instagram]
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 26,534
And1: 17,095
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1632 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 29, 2016 7:00 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/BF_6OtthYpN/[/instagram]


I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1633 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun May 29, 2016 7:06 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/BF_6OtthYpN/[/instagram]


I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.


I would like that too even though I love Simmons and think he's clearly better than Ingram. I was waiting on Team Ingram posters to ask how many takes it took for him to hit that jump shot lol.
User avatar
Sixersftw
RealGM
Posts: 19,200
And1: 9,492
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Location: Shoot a 3 you coward
       

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1634 » by Sixersftw » Sun May 29, 2016 7:11 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.


I think they will release some closer to the draft. I just can't put a lot of stock in the shooting in those videos. I was watching his workout with Blakeney from his preseason workouts and his jumper looked fine. Obviously, not so much last year.
They say an analytics man doesn't have a heart, but I ran the numbers and nothing can be further from the truth - Sam Hinkie probably
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 26,534
And1: 17,095
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1635 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/BF_6OtthYpN/[/instagram]


I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.


I would like that too even though I love Simmons and think he's clearly better than Ingram. I was waiting on Team Ingram posters to ask how many takes it took for him to hit that jump shot lol.


I'm not completely dismissive of Simmons because he's obviously talented. Id be more concerned about his squad acting like he hit a GW in the ECF on a simple soccer move and a wide open shot. Give me 10 tries and I have a 50% chance of doing it once (I'm not the best shooter).
Ericb5
RealGM
Posts: 10,303
And1: 3,377
Joined: Jan 08, 2014
       

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1636 » by Ericb5 » Sun May 29, 2016 7:19 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/BF_6OtthYpN/[/instagram]


I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.



That would be nice, but let's not place 3 point shooting on the list of things that he has to be able to do to be the pick.

If he someday develops that it will be awesome, but it isn't needed for him to be a superstar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
cksdayoff
RealGM
Posts: 13,331
And1: 3,639
Joined: Jun 21, 2010

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1637 » by cksdayoff » Sun May 29, 2016 7:23 pm

how many takes it took for him to hit that jump shot?
#failforfultz
User avatar
cksdayoff
RealGM
Posts: 13,331
And1: 3,639
Joined: Jun 21, 2010

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1638 » by cksdayoff » Sun May 29, 2016 7:24 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.


I would like that too even though I love Simmons and think he's clearly better than Ingram. I was waiting on Team Ingram posters to ask how many takes it took for him to hit that jump shot lol.


I'm not completely dismissive of Simmons because he's obviously talented. Id be more concerned about his squad acting like he hit a GW in the ECF on a simple soccer move and a wide open shot. Give me 10 tries and I have a 50% chance of doing it once (I'm not the best shooter).


Embiid could make that shot with his eyes closed
#failforfultz
kriss73
Analyst
Posts: 3,452
And1: 1,938
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1639 » by kriss73 » Sun May 29, 2016 7:30 pm

cksdayoff wrote:how many takes it took for him to hit that jump shot?

Relying on his reaction: a lot
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 26,534
And1: 17,095
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1640 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 29, 2016 7:55 pm

Sixersftw wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
I'm hoping we get to see some more workout video of him soon. I'd like to see him hit a string of 3 pointers just to help my confidence in this pick.


I think they will release some closer to the draft. I just can't put a lot of stock in the shooting in those videos. I was watching his workout with Blakeney from his preseason workouts and his jumper looked fine. Obviously, not so much last year.


I'll put a lot of stock in Simmons hitting jumpshots in workouts because they will be some of the only ones I've seen him take in 2016.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers