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[darealjuice]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

Keep telling yourself that. Its about the way he approaches business, he is interpersonally challenged scout masquerading a GM who can’t communicate. Its no coincidence that more players are voicing their lack of trust in him. Also lol as if skimming $15 mill by locking up the Knightmare actually matters when no one in their right mind will come here. Just watch that Lakers pick will convey in the Top 7 of a stacked 2017 draft or go unprotected

Keep telling myself what? That signing a 30 year old guard to a huge 5 year contract is a terrible move? If so, I'll gladly continue to tell myself the truth. Or is it that every player is for sale? Or that he hardly deserved to have been 3rd team All-NBA? Which one is it, I'd be more than happy to qualify every one of my opinions for you if you really want to continue beating this dead horse.

And what in the world are you talking about? You're completely talking out of your ass right now. Are you inside the front office and inside of the locker room conversing with players, or are you just talking about dumbasses like Marcus and Markieff, and sour players like Dragic saying they don't trust the front office? I have an overwhelmingly strong feeling that it's the latter. As for your "Knightmare" point, I'd much rather put 14 million a year into a 24 year old guard that actually has room to improve than a 17 million a year guard who's about to exit his prime.

Also, you're complaining about the Laker's pick, but if Dragic wasn't trying to force himself to a specific market then we would still have the Lakers pick AND Brandon Knight. You said it yourself, he refused to go to Milwuakee for a straight up deal for Knight. Why don't you complain that instead of our Front Office abiding by his wishes and putting him somewhere that he actually wanted to be? Nah, that'd totally ruin your narrative right??

[bwgood77]

Link http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/05/24/report-goran-dragic-pledged-to-re-sign-with-suns-before-they-traded-him/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo:
Sorry to open up old wounds but this just goes to prove that McDunuhoh didn’t make the best out of a bad situation of clashing egos, he brought it all upon himself after failing to realize the incompatibility of his assets and alienating player by turning them against each other to create a every man for himself locker room. IT was much maligned just because he requested to start as was promised. and Dragic did not in fact force his hand our leverage, he preferred to stay but McD was shopping him long before he requested out. He didn’t deliver an ultimatum of big market teams to squander our leverage, McD was trying to deal him straight up for Knight and he didn’t want to go to Milwaukee. Sure you apologists can gloat about not overpaying a 30 year old “one year wonder” PG and the “bounty” we got from Miami and hope Don Riley hangs it up before they can reload but that doesn’t compensate for the irreparable damage done to the reputation of our organization. McD did him dirty and its time for this Mo, Curly, Shemp front office to be held accountable for their blunders.

In other new a s Suns exec admits that Hornaceck never had a chance, although I am no fan and was tired of the ecuses of him being dealt a bad hand. However the way he unceremoniously axed left a sour taste in my mouth. He was the convenient scapegoat set up to take the fall.

Link:http://nypost.com/2016/05/24/suns-exec-explains-implosion-hornacek-didnt-have-a-chance/

*Drops Mic Cues Frank*

I had already posted the link to the second story in our "Links to columns" thread.

[bwgood77]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

But, merging this with Links thread since we've mentioned several times this topic has been beat to death. Posting articles is cool, but I don't know that we need any more new Dragic threads 15 months later. It's pretty clear McD isn't good at communicating with players. Sure he doesn't have to, but GMs that do such as Riley seem to get quite a bit more respect.

[saintEscaton]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

Whats truly hilarious is that we didn't even end up using his Bird Rights, we didn't have to go over the cap for Chandlerr we signed him out right. Talk about bidding against yourself. Nearly every metric indicates that Knight is a net negative/ replacement level at best. expecting any improvement is crystalballing. I'm just pointing out the mental gymnastics some of the ever faithful do to dispel the cognitive dissonance.

[gaspar]

What a terrible GM McDonough is. He signed an All-Star for $7M per year and tested the market for a guy who could leave in the summer for free. That's inexcusable.

Joakim Noah was on the All-NBA 1st team and a nightly triple-double threat in 2013-2014 and then the Bulls front office brought over Mirotic from Europe and signed Pau next summer, which forced Noah to play out of position on defense and completely marginalized his role on offense and Noah eventually was moved to the bench. Have you seen Noah crying to the media about his treatment by the Bulls GM?

[darealjuice]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

Well McD's plan was originally to trade Dragic for Knight, which made a lot more sense considering they were both about to be FA's and Knight was the younger, cheaper component. I can't really speak as to whether they wanted him or not, but if I were in their situation at the time I wouldn't have wanted that trade either. Dragic didn't want to be in Milwuakee, and he's towards the latter stage of his career where the Bucks have been trying to build around their young core of Middleton, Parker, and Giannis, so it didn't make sense for the Bucks in the end. At this point, Dragic was all but gone and McD basically had to put something together to get value for him instead of letting him walk for free in FA, which he did with the Heat trade. The problem was that after letting IT go for peanuts (not that him and Bledsoe should ever have been an option to start together ), we went from pretty rich in guards to dirt poor, and he felt the need to replace the two of them with Knight, who he'd already been eyeing anyways. I don't care about trading Ennis or Plumlee, they sucked ass anyways, and once this Lakers pick finally conveys, we'll see exactly how much we gave up for Knight. The only hope for this trade to have not been an ass kicking is if the Lakers finally have the offseason that their fans talk about every single year, sign a big FA and draft Ingram/Simmons and end up being a late lottery team, in which case the trade won't be that bad. If it conveys to a Top 10 next year though, McD is going to look pretty damn foolish.

[darealjuice]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

Whats truly hilarious is that we didn't even end up using his Bird Rights, we didn't have to go over the cap for Chandlerr we signed him out right. Talk about bidding against yourself. Nearly every metric indicates that Knight is a net negative/ replacement level at best. expecting any improvement is crystalballing. I'm just pointing out the mental gymnastics some of the ever faithful do to dispel the cognitive dissonance.

It's pretty funny that the subject of your complaints is a player who improved VASTLY after he turned 25, going from Goran Tragic to "The Dragon", yet expecting improvement from our current 24-year old guard is "crystal balling." For someone complaining about people's "mental gymnastics," you're pretty flexible yourself.

[bwgood77]

I don't get it, what's your point? That we could have kept Dragic? That McDonough was shopping him regardless of if he wanted to stay or not? Who cares, every player is for sale except superstars, and he was far from a superstar. He barely even deserved his All-NBA 3rd team honors in reality. What's done is done, over a year later and you're still crying over a glass of spilled milk.

Also, people who are fine with the haul we got for Dragic and are happy we didn't sign him to an 85 million/5 year deal are apologists lol? It couldn't be that signing a 30 year old point guard to a 17 million dollar a year contract on a team that has no shot at competing in the playoffs right now is a terrible move right?

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

Well McD's plan was originally to trade Dragic for Knight, which made a lot more sense considering they were both about to be FA's and Knight was the younger, cheaper component. I can't really speak as to whether they wanted him or not, but if I were in their situation at the time I wouldn't have wanted that trade either. Dragic didn't want to be in Milwuakee, and he's towards the latter stage of his career where the Bucks have been trying to build around their young core of Middleton, Parker, and Giannis, so it didn't make sense for the Bucks in the end. At this point, Dragic was all but gone and McD basically had to put something together to get value for him instead of letting him walk for free in FA, which he did with the Heat trade. The problem was that after letting IT go for peanuts (not that him and Bledsoe should ever have been an option to start together ), we went from pretty rich in guards to dirt poor, and he felt the need to replace the two of them with Knight, who he'd already been eyeing anyways. I don't care about trading Ennis or Plumlee, they sucked ass anyways, and once this Lakers pick finally conveys, we'll see exactly how much we gave up for Knight. The only hope for this trade to have not been an ass kicking is if the Lakers finally have the offseason that their fans talk about every single year, sign a big FA and draft Ingram/Simmons and end up being a late lottery team, in which case the trade won't be that bad. If it conveys to a Top 10 next year though, McD is going to look pretty damn foolish.

I agree with most of what you say, and I can see McD wanting to trade him straight up for Knight, but any team getting an UFA is going to need to know if the guy will re-sign with them, so that question was going to come up anyway.

Ennis sucking ass means that's another terrible pick for McD with so many other options like Hood, Harris, Anderson, brazilian freak, etc.

Giving up anything for Knight is stupid though. He obviously thought Ennis had some value or he wouldn't have drafted him. I've always felt there was a pretty good chance the pick wasn't going to be that great, but even if it's the 15th pick, I'd rather have that than Knight at what we pay him. Or probably than Knight at all for that matter.

I hope Knight turns it around. I have hopes he does.

[darealjuice]

He wasn't worth that, and nor was Knight worth his deal, or having to give up picks and players to get him when he was a FA. Also, I had heard Milwaukee didn't want Dragic, which makes sense considering they didn't want to sign Knight AND Middleton and commit that much money to two guards with all their young guys coming off rookie deals in the next 2-3 years. Why would they trade for an unrestricted free agent who would leave? Doesn't sound like McD knew what he was doing at all.

Well McD's plan was originally to trade Dragic for Knight, which made a lot more sense considering they were both about to be FA's and Knight was the younger, cheaper component. I can't really speak as to whether they wanted him or not, but if I were in their situation at the time I wouldn't have wanted that trade either. Dragic didn't want to be in Milwuakee, and he's towards the latter stage of his career where the Bucks have been trying to build around their young core of Middleton, Parker, and Giannis, so it didn't make sense for the Bucks in the end. At this point, Dragic was all but gone and McD basically had to put something together to get value for him instead of letting him walk for free in FA, which he did with the Heat trade. The problem was that after letting IT go for peanuts (not that him and Bledsoe should ever have been an option to start together ), we went from pretty rich in guards to dirt poor, and he felt the need to replace the two of them with Knight, who he'd already been eyeing anyways. I don't care about trading Ennis or Plumlee, they sucked ass anyways, and once this Lakers pick finally conveys, we'll see exactly how much we gave up for Knight. The only hope for this trade to have not been an ass kicking is if the Lakers finally have the offseason that their fans talk about every single year, sign a big FA and draft Ingram/Simmons and end up being a late lottery team, in which case the trade won't be that bad. If it conveys to a Top 10 next year though, McD is going to look pretty damn foolish.

I agree with most of what you say, and I can see McD wanting to trade him straight up for Knight, but any team getting an UFA is going to need to know if the guy will re-sign with them, so that question was going to come up anyway.

Ennis sucking ass means that's another terrible pick for McD with so many other options like Hood, Harris, Anderson, brazilian freak, etc.

Giving up anything for Knight is stupid though. He obviously thought Ennis had some value or he wouldn't have drafted him. I've always felt there was a pretty good chance the pick wasn't going to be that great, but even if it's the 15th pick, I'd rather have that than Knight at what we pay him. Or probably than Knight at all for that matter.

I hope Knight turns it around. I have hopes he does.

Meh, the only option I care about in the 2014 draft that we missed in favor of Ennis was Hood. Harris is alright, but I don't care that we missed him considering he wouldn't get playing time. Don't care at all about Cabolco, and Kyle Anderson isn't anything special either.

Knight was nearly an borderline all star in Milwuakee at 24. There's no way that I'd rather have any option past the 18th pick over Knight, regardless of how much we're paying him. It's not like that cap space would have gone to any one younger/more talented. His contract isn't very good this year, but it's going to be nothing next year when Conley and Beal are making 20+ million and Jeremy Lin is making ~12 million to be a fringe starter/come off the bench. I know Suns fans don't like Knight, considering what we gave up for him, but when he's been healthy for us he really hasn't been bad for us (don't get me wrong, he wasn't worth the Lakers pick at all) and I'm willing to give him another year (assuming he doesn't get traded this offseason) to show that he belongs in Phoenix. I just wish he'd accept a sixth man role, because that's really where he'd flourish in my opinion.

I'm not as quick as a lot of people are here giving up on Knight. Despite his questionable basketball IQ, he's still averaging about 20/5/4 a game at 24 years old. If Goran Dragic can go from Tragic to the Dragon at 25, then I'm optimistic Knight can continue to improve as well.

[bwgood77]

Meh, the only option I care about in the 2014 draft that we missed in favor of Ennis was Hood. Harris is alright, but I don't care that we missed him considering he wouldn't get playing time. Don't care at all about Cabolco, and Kyle Anderson isn't anything special either.

Knight was nearly an borderline all star in Milwuakee at 24. There's no way that I'd rather have any option past the 18th pick over Knight, regardless of how much we're paying him. It's not like that cap space would have gone to any one younger/more talented. His contract isn't very good this year, but it's going to be nothing next year when Conley and Beal are making 20+ million and Jeremy Lin is making ~12 million to be a fringe starter/come off the bench. I know Suns fans don't like Knight, considering what we gave up for him, but when he's been healthy for us he really hasn't been bad for us (don't get me wrong, he wasn't worth the Lakers pick at all) and I'm willing to give him another year (assuming he doesn't get traded this offseason) to show that he belongs in Phoenix. I just wish he'd accept a sixth man role, because that's really where he'd flourish in my opinion.

I'm not as quick as a lot of people are here giving up on Knight. Despite his questionable basketball IQ, he's still averaging about 20/5/4 a game at 24 years old. If Goran Dragic can go from Tragic to the Dragon at 25, then I'm optimistic Knight can continue to improve as well.

Again, mostly I agree. I actually don't think his contract will be THAT terrible after free agency. It will be one you can likely trade if he does well. I haven't given up on him either, but I am not sure after five years if he can correct the terrible turnovers, particularly in crunch time, having zero court awareness about not being behind the 3 pt line we he launches us long 2s right on the line, dribbling way too much as others watch, only to jack up that long 2.

Also I hate when people bring up raw #s such as 20/5/4 without looking at stuff like fg%, 3ptfg%, turnovers. Add in that stuff and his points and assists come at a big price, especially when he doesn't make other teammates better.

[darealjuice]

Meh, the only option I care about in the 2014 draft that we missed in favor of Ennis was Hood. Harris is alright, but I don't care that we missed him considering he wouldn't get playing time. Don't care at all about Cabolco, and Kyle Anderson isn't anything special either.

Knight was nearly an borderline all star in Milwuakee at 24. There's no way that I'd rather have any option past the 18th pick over Knight, regardless of how much we're paying him. It's not like that cap space would have gone to any one younger/more talented. His contract isn't very good this year, but it's going to be nothing next year when Conley and Beal are making 20+ million and Jeremy Lin is making ~12 million to be a fringe starter/come off the bench. I know Suns fans don't like Knight, considering what we gave up for him, but when he's been healthy for us he really hasn't been bad for us (don't get me wrong, he wasn't worth the Lakers pick at all) and I'm willing to give him another year (assuming he doesn't get traded this offseason) to show that he belongs in Phoenix. I just wish he'd accept a sixth man role, because that's really where he'd flourish in my opinion.

I'm not as quick as a lot of people are here giving up on Knight. Despite his questionable basketball IQ, he's still averaging about 20/5/4 a game at 24 years old. If Goran Dragic can go from Tragic to the Dragon at 25, then I'm optimistic Knight can continue to improve as well.

Again, mostly I agree. I actually don't think his contract will be THAT terrible after free agency. It will be one you can likely trade if he does well. I haven't given up on him either, but I am not sure after five years if he can correct the terrible turnovers, particularly in crunch time, having zero court awareness about not being behind the 3 pt line we he launches us long 2s right on the line, dribbling way too much as others watch, only to jack up that long 2.

Also I hate when people bring up raw #s such as 20/5/4 without looking at stuff like fg%, 3ptfg%, turnovers. Add in that stuff and his points and assists come at a big price, especially when he doesn't make other teammates better.

I think if we really want to, we can get decent value for him now. Obviously not what we gave up for him, but a future draft pick or decent (somewhere around 10th) pick in this draft shouldn't be impossible to pull off. His contract is going to be looked at as standard starter dollars once the cap jumps up, we're going to see some big pay raises this year for players that are FAs. I don't see why he can't correct his errors if coached correctly by Watson and Triano, I know he's not a willing passer and can get tunnel vision but with some of the coaches that helped mold Dame into what he is now, I'm optimistic they could have a positive impact if they have the opportunity.

As far as field goal percentages, his weren't really that bad, they were right around where Dame was last year at 24, although with more turnovers. Obviously I'm not suggesting he becomes Damien Lillard or anything, but I felt like one of the better young, scoring combo guards in the league might not be a bad measuring stick for him. I'm hoping that Bledsoe being injured and him being the major ballhandler towards the end of the season is what made him turn the ball over more, because in general he hasn't been a huge turnover machine through his career.

[bwgood77]

Meh, the only option I care about in the 2014 draft that we missed in favor of Ennis was Hood. Harris is alright, but I don't care that we missed him considering he wouldn't get playing time. Don't care at all about Cabolco, and Kyle Anderson isn't anything special either.

Knight was nearly an borderline all star in Milwuakee at 24. There's no way that I'd rather have any option past the 18th pick over Knight, regardless of how much we're paying him. It's not like that cap space would have gone to any one younger/more talented. His contract isn't very good this year, but it's going to be nothing next year when Conley and Beal are making 20+ million and Jeremy Lin is making ~12 million to be a fringe starter/come off the bench. I know Suns fans don't like Knight, considering what we gave up for him, but when he's been healthy for us he really hasn't been bad for us (don't get me wrong, he wasn't worth the Lakers pick at all) and I'm willing to give him another year (assuming he doesn't get traded this offseason) to show that he belongs in Phoenix. I just wish he'd accept a sixth man role, because that's really where he'd flourish in my opinion.

I'm not as quick as a lot of people are here giving up on Knight. Despite his questionable basketball IQ, he's still averaging about 20/5/4 a game at 24 years old. If Goran Dragic can go from Tragic to the Dragon at 25, then I'm optimistic Knight can continue to improve as well.

Again, mostly I agree. I actually don't think his contract will be THAT terrible after free agency. It will be one you can likely trade if he does well. I haven't given up on him either, but I am not sure after five years if he can correct the terrible turnovers, particularly in crunch time, having zero court awareness about not being behind the 3 pt line we he launches us long 2s right on the line, dribbling way too much as others watch, only to jack up that long 2.

Also I hate when people bring up raw #s such as 20/5/4 without looking at stuff like fg%, 3ptfg%, turnovers. Add in that stuff and his points and assists come at a big price, especially when he doesn't make other teammates better.

I think if we really want to, we can get decent value for him now. Obviously not what we gave up for him, but a future draft pick or decent (somewhere around 10th) pick in this draft shouldn't be impossible to pull off. His contract is going to be looked at as standard starter dollars once the cap jumps up, we're going to see some big pay raises this year for players that are FAs. I don't see why he can't correct his errors if coached correctly by Watson and Triano, I know he's not a willing passer and can get tunnel vision but with some of the coaches that helped mold Dame into what he is now, I'm optimistic they could have a positive impact if they have the opportunity.

As far as field goal percentages, his weren't really that bad, they were right around where Dame was last year at 24, although with more turnovers. Obviously I'm not suggesting he becomes Damien Lillard or anything, but I felt like one of the better young, scoring combo guards in the league might not be a bad measuring stick for him. I'm hoping that Bledsoe being injured and him being the major ballhandler towards the end of the season is what made him turn the ball over more, because in general he hasn't been a huge turnover machine through his career.

Well, when I think we can move a guy I try and think of a team that might want him because it makes sense for them and provides a need. Other than maybe Philly, can you name a team that would give up a pick for him...especially something like a 10th pick?

[darealjuice]

Again, mostly I agree. I actually don't think his contract will be THAT terrible after free agency. It will be one you can likely trade if he does well. I haven't given up on him either, but I am not sure after five years if he can correct the terrible turnovers, particularly in crunch time, having zero court awareness about not being behind the 3 pt line we he launches us long 2s right on the line, dribbling way too much as others watch, only to jack up that long 2.

Also I hate when people bring up raw #s such as 20/5/4 without looking at stuff like fg%, 3ptfg%, turnovers. Add in that stuff and his points and assists come at a big price, especially when he doesn't make other teammates better.

I think if we really want to, we can get decent value for him now. Obviously not what we gave up for him, but a future draft pick or decent (somewhere around 10th) pick in this draft shouldn't be impossible to pull off. His contract is going to be looked at as standard starter dollars once the cap jumps up, we're going to see some big pay raises this year for players that are FAs. I don't see why he can't correct his errors if coached correctly by Watson and Triano, I know he's not a willing passer and can get tunnel vision but with some of the coaches that helped mold Dame into what he is now, I'm optimistic they could have a positive impact if they have the opportunity.

As far as field goal percentages, his weren't really that bad, they were right around where Dame was last year at 24, although with more turnovers. Obviously I'm not suggesting he becomes Damien Lillard or anything, but I felt like one of the better young, scoring combo guards in the league might not be a bad measuring stick for him. I'm hoping that Bledsoe being injured and him being the major ballhandler towards the end of the season is what made him turn the ball over more, because in general he hasn't been a huge turnover machine through his career.

Well, when I think we can move a guy I try and think of a team that might want him because it makes sense for them and provides a need. Other than maybe Philly, can you name a team that would give up a pick for him...especially something like a 10th pick?

Sacramento feels like the most natural fit for him right now, and he'd be one of the most talented individual team mates that Cousins has had in his career lol. The Pelicans aren't out of the question, although I doubt they'd take on another guard like him. The Jazz need a scoring boost, but I'm not sure he's a fit with the Jazz culture. Ideally I'd like to package him and a pick for a Philly big though.

[saintEscaton]

Again, mostly I agree. I actually don't think his contract will be THAT terrible after free agency. It will be one you can likely trade if he does well. I haven't given up on him either, but I am not sure after five years if he can correct the terrible turnovers, particularly in crunch time, having zero court awareness about not being behind the 3 pt line we he launches us long 2s right on the line, dribbling way too much as others watch, only to jack up that long 2.

Also I hate when people bring up raw #s such as 20/5/4 without looking at stuff like fg%, 3ptfg%, turnovers. Add in that stuff and his points and assists come at a big price, especially when he doesn't make other teammates better.

I think if we really want to, we can get decent value for him now. Obviously not what we gave up for him, but a future draft pick or decent (somewhere around 10th) pick in this draft shouldn't be impossible to pull off. His contract is going to be looked at as standard starter dollars once the cap jumps up, we're going to see some big pay raises this year for players that are FAs. I don't see why he can't correct his errors if coached correctly by Watson and Triano, I know he's not a willing passer and can get tunnel vision but with some of the coaches that helped mold Dame into what he is now, I'm optimistic they could have a positive impact if they have the opportunity.

As far as field goal percentages, his weren't really that bad, they were right around where Dame was last year at 24, although with more turnovers. Obviously I'm not suggesting he becomes Damien Lillard or anything, but I felt like one of the better young, scoring combo guards in the league might not be a bad measuring stick for him. I'm hoping that Bledsoe being injured and him being the major ballhandler towards the end of the season is what made him turn the ball over more, because in general he hasn't been a huge turnover machine through his career.

Well, when I think we can move a guy I try and think of a team that might want him because it makes sense for them and provides a need. Other than maybe Philly, can you name a team that would give up a pick for him...especially something like a 10th pick?

This may be overkill but...

Yes bulk stats without context regarding volume, efficiency and usage rate are next to useless. First off lets debunk the myth of Knight’s “borderline All-Star’ 2014 season, he wasn’t snubbed due to a lack of name brand he was just undeserving. It was Milwaukee’s stingy D that ranked near the top of the league that propelled them to the regular season success, sure you could argue that their recorded imploded when MCW took over the reigns but it was actually addition by subtraction in the long run. Nearly every team mates was worse off when he was the court and better when he was off.
For reference





Lets break it down this season to see how Knight puts up empty numbers. His TS% percentage (.522) was barely better than the sweet stroking Ronnie Price, opponents shot 2.1% better when guarded by him him than their season average( an astounding +9.8% within 6 feet meaning he was terrible recovering ). He didn’t pick his spots to his strength, he was taking way too many treys from above the break where he was at his best when he was best at corner pocket. Not to mention he woosome proclivity to hurl up contested shock clocking expiring long 2s after overdribbling. His PER which should have been inflated by his high volume but was still below league average. Suns were 4.5 points better per 100 possesions when he was off the court and -13 points worse when he was on the court and registered a RPM registed -2.12 which is good for 53rd among PGs. So we can easily marginal offensive contributions don't outweigh his ineptitude on the other end

[bwgood77]

Suns didn't fare too well in Ford and Pelton's future rankings....according to them we rank 27th in how good our players are and our management ranks 28th.

27. Phoenix Suns
RANK SCORE
Players 27 27.5
Management 28 20

Some of the ratings were head scratchers though. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15702206/2016-nba-future-power-rankings-kevin-pelton-chad-ford

[Cactus Jack]

Suns didn't fare too well in Ford and Pelton's future rankings....according to them we rank 27th in how good our players are and our management ranks 28th.

27. Phoenix Suns
RANK SCORE
Players 27 27.5
Management 28 20

Some of the ratings were head scratchers though. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15702206/2016-nba-future-power-rankings-kevin-pelton-chad-ford

If this team had landed the #1 pick in the lottery, I have a strong feeling we would be rated much higher.

[saintEscaton]

Suns didn't fare too well in Ford and Pelton's future rankings....according to them we rank 27th in how good our players are and our management ranks 28th.

27. Phoenix Suns
RANK SCORE
Players 27 27.5
Management 28 20

Some of the ratings were head scratchers though. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15702206/2016-nba-future-power-rankings-kevin-pelton-chad-ford

If this team had landed the #1 pick in the lottery, I have a strong feeling we would be rated much higher.

Sounds about right. Its amazing how we have prolonged the conbuild before the wheels finallly came off, but we wil scratch tooth and nail to stay in purgatory. If only we were already teh perennial cellar dwellers the ranking suggests....

[bwgood77]

Suns didn't fare too well in Ford and Pelton's future rankings....according to them we rank 27th in how good our players are and our management ranks 28th.



Some of the ratings were head scratchers though. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15702206/2016-nba-future-power-rankings-kevin-pelton-chad-ford

If this team had landed the #1 pick in the lottery, I have a strong feeling we would be rated much higher.

Sounds about right. Its amazing how we have prolonged the conbuild before the wheels finallly came off, but we wil scratch tooth and nail to stay in purgatory. If only we were already teh perennial cellar dwellers the ranking suggests....

I can't believe they have teams like Miami and Portland ahead of Minnesota. Then the Raptors at 17th who just got to the ECF and have a lottery pick. They are not a great team, but they have a brighter future than some ranked ahead of them imo. I'm not sure why they have Dallas ranked 5 spots ahead of us.

[saintEscaton]

If this team had landed the #1 pick in the lottery, I have a strong feeling we would be rated much higher.

Sounds about right. Its amazing how we have prolonged the conbuild before the wheels finallly came off, but we wil scratch tooth and nail to stay in purgatory. If only we were already teh perennial cellar dwellers the ranking suggests....

I can't believe they have teams like Miami and Portland ahead of Minnesota. Then the Raptors at 17th who just got to the ECF and have a lottery pick. They are not a great team, but they have a brighter future than some ranked ahead of them imo. I'm not sure why they have Dallas ranked 5 spots ahead of us.

Carlisle always finds a way to make the best out of scrapheap journeymen, but they eventually need to accept that their time is up although Dirk doesn't want to retire.

[darealjuice]

Suns didn't fare too well in Ford and Pelton's future rankings....according to them we rank 27th in how good our players are and our management ranks 28th.

27. Phoenix Suns
RANK SCORE
Players 27 27.5
Management 28 20

Some of the ratings were head scratchers though. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15702206/2016-nba-future-power-rankings-kevin-pelton-chad-ford

Any chance you could post the whole list or point me towards it? Not surprised they **** on us like that though, the media in general has shown very little knowledge on our team in general this offseason outside of "they need a Power Forward."

Some part of me honestly wishes we're as bad as they think next year so we can take advantage of the next draft's talent, but I sincerely doubt it.