Can somebody please explain why Nikola Vucevic trade value is so low?

[gomagic77]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

[RollingWave]

Because bad defender's stigma in today's NBA is pretty big. and very few teams have success with their main scorer being bigs, it's just usually not efficient enough on that end anyway especially if he uses a lot of possession on terms of iso / post ups.

You can find offense in any spot on the roster, but centers especially starting center's defense being bad is pretty irreplaceable. Tyat's why teams like say.. the Hornets went away from Al Jefferson, Cody Zeller has like no offensive game (no jumper, not much of a pick and roll guy, and no post moves, he's a pure garbage man scorer.) where as Jefferson is objectively one of the most skilled interior bigs in the league. the reason is that both defensively Cody's much better simply on the merits of being mobile while offensively him not needing the ball is actually a plus even despite his lack of actual scoring skills. (at least, in the regular season.)

This is the same reason why you hear a lot of folks valuing Nerlens Noel higher than Okafor. because Noel works for almost every team, but Okafor needs a very specific team around him and there's no evidence yet that he's actually good enough to warrant that.

[Mykhyn]

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

[gomagic77]

I think there is time for Vuc, he is athletic enough to be coached up...time will tell but I disagree, I think there are a lot more centers in this league that can do the dirty work and play D then there are skilled offensive big men...I do agree that he should not be our leading scorer if we are going to win but he is not the Magic's problem. This team needs a true #1 scorer and then you will see the true value of a big like Vuc

[kobe_vs_jordan]

B/c it is nearly impossible to find a PF with rim protection to compliment him.

[puppa bear]

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

This is probably the closest so far to my thoughts.

He carries with him the "poor D", and "no rim protection" labels. In the current NBA the ideal team set-up is 4 shooters around a post who can protect the rim & hit some shots. There aren't a lot of them around at the moment, so they are all max or near-max players.

Once the market has a bunch of bigs on ridiculous contracts his will look better. Until then, he will be undervalued on boards such as this.

[Mykhyn]

I think there is time for Vuc, he is athletic enough to be coached up...time will tell but I disagree, I think there are a lot more centers in this league that can do the dirty work and play D then there are skilled offensive big men...I do agree that he should not be our leading scorer if we are going to win but he is not the Magic's problem. This team needs a true #1 scorer and then you will see the true value of a big like Vuc

Who defends against penetration if you roll with Vucevic as a starter? Or are you going to let teams do layup after layup


http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Vucevic is one of the worst rim protection bigs in the entire NBA

You notice Vucevics contest percent is double anyone else anywhere near him on the lists yet he allows people to score at a higher rate than anyone besides Bargnani



How do you make up for that while keeping Vucevic as a starter?

Anyone can make up the offense. No one(save maybe ibaka) can make up the defense.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Here's a thought, his trade value isn't low as people assume?

He was a centerpiece of a highly rumored Cousins/Okafor trade, if that should tell you anything about his value around his league.

People will see what Vucevic is capable of under a competent defensive minded coach this coming season. I fully expect an all star season.

[Mykhyn]

Here's a thought, his trade value isn't low as people assume?

He was a centerpiece of a highly rumored Cousins/Okafor trade, if that should tell you anything about his value around his league.

People will see what Vucevic is capable of under a competent defensive minded coach this coming season. I fully expect an all star season.

'

You mean the rumored Vucevic + 5 for #2 deal last year?



Getting rejected trying to move up 3 spots with Vucevic doesn't sell me on his value. Really when they were rumored to be moving up for a similarly flawed player.

[The Beam King]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

Two words:
DE
FENSE

[gomagic77]

I think there is time for Vuc, he is athletic enough to be coached up...time will tell but I disagree, I think there are a lot more centers in this league that can do the dirty work and play D then there are skilled offensive big men...I do agree that he should not be our leading scorer if we are going to win but he is not the Magic's problem. This team needs a true #1 scorer and then you will see the true value of a big like Vuc

Who defends against penetration if you roll with Vucevic as a starter? Or are you going to let teams do layup after layup


http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Vucevic is one of the worst rim protection bigs in the entire NBA

You notice Vucevics contest percent is double anyone else anywhere near him on the lists yet he allows people to score at a higher rate than anyone besides Bargnani



How do you make up for that while keeping Vucevic as a starter?

Anyone can make up the offense. No one(save maybe ibaka) can make up the defense.

In what order is that link supposed to be in because it shows him right above Dwight Howard who has won defensive player of the year awards, that's a pretty shady website.

[Golabki]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

Because teams care about 3 things -
1. Guys that can create shots for themselves and others
2. Guys that can shoot 3s
3. Guys that can defend

Vuc isn't good enough to do a lot of #1 on a good team and doesn't do 2 or 3. That makes him a good stats / bad team guy. He'd be great in a Kanter like role where he is like the 7th or 8th man in a rotation, but he's too expensive for that.

[gomagic77]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

Two words:
DE
FENSE

Yeah but explain to me why Vuc would not fetch a late lottery pick from some of you guys but Okafor could get the #2 pick...same player and Okafor has off court issues...just silly IMO

[Texas Chuck]

Most everyone else has covered the reasons why his value is lower than you want it to be. But if your plan isn't to trade him because you believe in his game, then why does it matter, right? We all have players that mean more to us as fans than they are going to valued by fans elsewhere. That's okay. But I hope this board doesn't start a bunch of similar threads wondering why their player isn't valued enough.

We all need to realize that its far more likely that each of us is guilty of overvaluing our assets than it is that the board as a whole has some bias against our team and undervalues them. I'm not saying that's always the case, but Occam's Razor tells us its by far the most likely explanation.

[Mykhyn]

I think there is time for Vuc, he is athletic enough to be coached up...time will tell but I disagree, I think there are a lot more centers in this league that can do the dirty work and play D then there are skilled offensive big men...I do agree that he should not be our leading scorer if we are going to win but he is not the Magic's problem. This team needs a true #1 scorer and then you will see the true value of a big like Vuc

Who defends against penetration if you roll with Vucevic as a starter? Or are you going to let teams do layup after layup


http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Vucevic is one of the worst rim protection bigs in the entire NBA

You notice Vucevics contest percent is double anyone else anywhere near him on the lists yet he allows people to score at a higher rate than anyone besides Bargnani



How do you make up for that while keeping Vucevic as a starter?

Anyone can make up the offense. No one(save maybe ibaka) can make up the defense.

In what order is that link supposed to be in because it shows him right above Dwight Howard who has won defensive player of the year awards, that's a pretty shady website.

Use all the stats. None of them change Vucevics ranking much.

[Mykhyn]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

Two words:
DE
FENSE

Yeah but explain to me why Vuc would not fetch a late lottery pick from some of you guys but Okafor could get the #2 pick...same player and Okafor has off court issues...just silly IMO

Year 1 Okafor is more efficent than year 5 Vucevic offensively. It's easier to bank on improvement in year 2 than year 6. Especially when the year 2 player had Noel for his spacing

[winter_mute_13]

Vuc isn't good enough to do a lot of #1 on a good team and doesn't do 2 or 3. That makes him a good stats / bad team guy. He'd be great in a Kanter like role where he is like the 7th or 8th man in a rotation, but he's too expensive for that.

Well one would say that Kanter himself is too expensive for a Kanter-like role but that's for another thread.

To Magic fans: if you think Vucevic is more valuable on the court than his perceived trade value, then you should just keep him. If you just want to talk up his value on the T&T board though... well I don't think you can convince anyone.

[LightTheBeam]

Two words:
DE
FENSE

Yeah but explain to me why Vuc would not fetch a late lottery pick from some of you guys but Okafor could get the #2 pick...same player and Okafor has off court issues...just silly IMO

Year 1 Okafor is more efficent than year 5 Vucevic offensively. It's easier to bank on improvement in year 2 than year 6. Especially when the year 2 player had Noel for his spacing

I would also say that it's a much easier sell to the fans and front office the fact that Okafor still might be good enough to be a #1 or #2 option if he continues to progress. Where with Vucevic we know that's not the case.

[Golabki]

Vuc isn't good enough to do a lot of #1 on a good team and doesn't do 2 or 3. That makes him a good stats / bad team guy. He'd be great in a Kanter like role where he is like the 7th or 8th man in a rotation, but he's too expensive for that.

Well one would say that Kanter himself is too expensive for a Kanter-like role but that's for another thread.

To Magic fans: if you think Vucevic is more valuable on the court than his perceived trade value, then you should just keep him. If you just want to talk up his value on the T&T board though... well I don't think you can convince anyone.

Kanter is too expensive for the Kanter role... that's why he has very little trade value despite great box score stats.

The other problem for Vuc is that over the past few years all the athletic 6'10" guys that used to be PFs that could occasionally play center have become Centers that can occasionally play PF. So there is a much larger supply of traditional centers than there is demand for that type of player.

[RollingWave]

Rim protection isn't really replaceable from other positions. Offense is.

Bigs that can't play defense just don't have good value any more.

This is probably the closest so far to my thoughts.

He carries with him the "poor D", and "no rim protection" labels. In the current NBA the ideal team set-up is 4 shooters around a post who can protect the rim & hit some shots. There aren't a lot of them around at the moment, so they are all max or near-max players.

Once the market has a bunch of bigs on ridiculous contracts his will look better. Until then, he will be undervalued on boards such as this.

Except that this is almost never going to happen, because 7 footers are never going to be common by default for obvious reasons, and thus 7 footers that can play defense will never become over supplied without some mega team contractions or removing the salary cap.

The highest value player IMHO are.

1. guys who can drop 40-50 points, especially if they aren't a point guards (aka super stars.)
2. bigs who can protect the paint at a high level.
3. someone who can run an offense with the ball in their hands (especially valuable if it's in other positions outside of PG. but lacking this player will make your team a sure fired terrible team and finding basic level of this sort of player in the PG position is obviously the easiest )
4. guys who can credibly defend multiple positions (and not be a train wreck offensively.)

These are the type of guys you really should be paying max level contracts to right now , (except for PGs that can run an offense unless they do it at a level closer to #1 type players )

Basically if you have at least 1 guy that checks the boxes on all 4 of these type players on your team, your a legit titles contender.