The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[BasketballFan7]

Of course GS is a worse matchup for Cleveland, but curry is not 100% and hasn't got (and won't get) consistent rest the rest of the year. GS, if they win, is going to have more bumps and bruises than just that. Cleveland, on the other hand, is as healthy as possible, and rested. Also, Lebron isn't going to be banging against iggy repeatedly on the left block in a futile effort to create efficient offense.

This isn't nearly as hopeless as many seem to think. Cleveland is damn good and can go off on any team.

The way the Finals are scheduled the Warriors will have plenty of time to rest. Either team that wins tomorrow will have two days between the first 3 games.

I know, but these guys aren't getting truly healed until the offseason. Particularly referencing curry and bogut, I expect heavier variance than would be typical of them.

[rich316]

Hi guys,

Long-time Lurker, first time poster.

Would not have known - your English is close to perfect, don't worry.

You bring up an interesting idea - hiding Irving/Love on Iggy. Iggy can probably post Kyrie up, but as we saw in the OKC series, GSW won't really kill you by posting their big on your guards. It's a similar concept I guess.

That leaves LeBron/Smith on Curry, other guy on Klay, and Love on Green defending the PNR. Far more palatable situation than Irving on him, I just don't know how long LeBron can keep up with Curry's explosiveness for example. They can probably take turns while the other "hides" on Klay when he's being a floor spacer/plan Z cutter, and give Steph different looks (such as JR Smith chasing him around screens - he did great work on Korver, but Curry's a different beast obviously).

TT doesn't really need to be guarded, that rebounding battle can be won by GSW though as they are very good on the defensive glass. The Love/Frye lineup (hell just the Frye) lineup is pretty unstoppable on O, but they give up just as much on D.

It's really GSW's consistency and floor that make them so scary. The way you described it is how Cleveland can hope to shake things up and get a chance, but it's going to be super hard to keep that up and win 4 games. That's why everyone's saying GS humiliates them.

OKC has revealed something interesting about the Dubs - if you can simply switch the Curry/Green PnR, their offense becomes much less explosive in the halfcourt. The Cavs need to react to that by making Lebron the primary Green defender, just like OKC made Durant the primary Green defender. The Cavs tried to do this with TT in last years finals, but he wasn't quick enough to hang with Curry. Both Lebron and Durant are capable of switching onto Curry. Curry will probably be able to score on Lebron at times, but that's not a matchup you worry about. I don't really worry about Lebron getting tired either, since he won't be on Curry every possession and Green isn't a particularly taxing cover with the ball in his hands. He might try to post up Lebron, but that would end badly. The Dubs then have the option of posting Green against whoever Curry's defender was - that's a chance you take if you are the Cavs, IMO. Even that could be avoided by some smart rotations to put a big on Green as Curry is likely not going to be making a super-quick entry pass to Green in the post over Lebron.

Love guarding Draymond must be avoided at all costs. That's the fastest way for GSW to get the layups/open 3s machine rolling.

[rich316]

Not even excited for the Finals to be honest... OKC wasn't the only team that had its championship aspirations destroyed tonight.

Golden State could conceivably win the title for the next few years in a row, and I can't imagine what team stands in their way. Maybe in 4-5 years Minnesota plays up to their potential and provides some adversity, but other than that, I see no team in the league that can contend with the Warriors in the near future. They're just too good, and while the Cavs have at least similar talent level, they match up absolutely TERRIBLY.

Ugh... Sports suck.

I honestly can't figure you out yoyoboy in one post you are giving up all hope, in the next you are optimistic that the Cavs can beat the Warriors. Bottom line is this: a shell of this Cavs team beat the Dubs twice last year. They definitely have a chance.

[tone wone]

It was. Got to the point where Vogel told George to get way up on it in the 14 playoff series because apparently they charted him shooting like 60% on them. Ridiculous it got to the point where Bron catching the ball in triple threat from 18 feet that you wanted him to drive into help rather than shoot.

Lebron doesn't really have dribble moves that create separation like a Kobe, Kyrie or Steph where if they create enough separation and they land on balance on a crossover it's like an uncontested shot. He has the step back and the turnaround J's but those are still off balance shots even if to him they are relatively uncontested.

This was his version of a separation move. Where literally he jabs you to the point where it's nearly a zero contest because of his release point and he's 100% on balance. Still have no idea why he can't make it anymore. Early in 2015 even when his jumper was erratic the triple threat jab step J was still good for him.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu-0-I_AE7k[/youtube]

This shot is kinda important for most wing scorers (those with size). Defenses can't take it away. Regardless of personnel or scheme and regardless of who's on the floor with you...you can always get this shot. Just being near 40% on it makes it a big weapon. Sadly, he's spent most of this season doing everything to avoid this shot. Over penetrating into traffic (through drives or backdowns) OR opting for the turnaround from basically the same distance. It just goes to the larger issue with his jumper and the inherit ceiling his he's had as a scorer this year

That shot sustained his halfcourt scoring in 2011 when he couldn't really turn the corner. He lived off it in the ECFs against CHI and probably didn't go to it enough against DAL.

[yoyoboy]

Not even excited for the Finals to be honest... OKC wasn't the only team that had its championship aspirations destroyed tonight.

Golden State could conceivably win the title for the next few years in a row, and I can't imagine what team stands in their way. Maybe in 4-5 years Minnesota plays up to their potential and provides some adversity, but other than that, I see no team in the league that can contend with the Warriors in the near future. They're just too good, and while the Cavs have at least similar talent level, they match up absolutely TERRIBLY.

Ugh... Sports suck.

I honestly can't figure you out yoyoboy in one post you are giving up all hope, in the next you are optimistic that the Cavs can beat the Warriors. Bottom line is this: a shell of this Cavs team beat the Dubs twice last year. They definitely have a chance.

Sometimes me heart takes control of my posts and sometimes my mind gets back in the driver's seat. Rationally, I just don't see how we can't beat the Warriors with a regressed Mozgov (who's size down low was huge in allowing us to take 2 games from the Warriors) and 2 guys in Kyrie and Love, who are virtually unplayable against the Warriors due to their piss poor PnR defense, which Curry and Draymond are sure to light up. Even Iggy absolutely terrorizes us every time we play them.

We saw what happened the last time these teams faced completely healthy and it was ugly. I understand the playoffs are a different animal, but I'm pretty sure LeBron and the team wanted to send a message that night, yet at one point they were down 40 points at home... That's not something to be overlooked. We just can't match up with them at all.

[rich316]

Not even excited for the Finals to be honest... OKC wasn't the only team that had its championship aspirations destroyed tonight.

Golden State could conceivably win the title for the next few years in a row, and I can't imagine what team stands in their way. Maybe in 4-5 years Minnesota plays up to their potential and provides some adversity, but other than that, I see no team in the league that can contend with the Warriors in the near future. They're just too good, and while the Cavs have at least similar talent level, they match up absolutely TERRIBLY.

Ugh... Sports suck.

I honestly can't figure you out yoyoboy in one post you are giving up all hope, in the next you are optimistic that the Cavs can beat the Warriors. Bottom line is this: a shell of this Cavs team beat the Dubs twice last year. They definitely have a chance.

Sometimes me heart takes control of my posts and sometimes my mind gets back in the driver's seat. Rationally, I just don't see how we can't beat the Warriors with a regressed Mozgov (who's size down low was huge in allowing us to take 2 games from the Warriors) and 2 guys in Kyrie and Love, who are virtually unplayable against the Warriors due to their piss poor PnR defense, which Curry and Draymond are sure to light up. Even Iggy absolutely terrorizes us every time we play them.

We saw what happened the last time these teams faced completely healthy and it was ugly. I understand the playoffs are a different animal, but I'm pretty sure LeBron and the team wanted to send a message that night, yet at one point they were down 40 points at home... That's not something to be overlooked. We just can't match up with them at all.

I agree that Mozgov not being what he was is a problem. On the flip side the Warriors bigs haven't gotten better either - Bogut is clearly injured right now and Ezeli hasn't been effective these playoffs either. Yes it would be good for the Cavs to have Mozgod back, but he's not walking through that door and offensive rebounding is a high-variance strategy anyway.

As for Love and Kyrie - I just can't buy the argument that they are net negatives. Kyrie looked great in Game 1 last year on one leg, and he actually played great D on Curry in that game. He's capable of holding his own when he needs to, and the Delly/Kyrie backcourt will likely get lots of run. Love's defense is undeniably a problem. That will have to be solved by great planning by Lue and the rest of the team working their asses of to compensate, particularly Lebron defending the paint. You might just see him camp out on Barnes to get him out of the action, which would honestly be fine. I don't think it's a totally lost cause, they just need to be smart about it - and he has been OK at times these playoffs at taking charges and staying in front of guys.

And then on the other end, I don't think the Warriors are going to be any more effective at stopping the Cavs than any other team they've faced. They aren't as good as they were last year on defense, I don't think that's arguable.

[RSCD3_]

Lebron guarding green could take a bunch of air out of GS's sails (provided GS wins tonight ) I think people are underestimating the cavs offense. If it happens it will be close IMO

[yoyoboy]

Lebron guarding green could take a bunch of air out of GS's sails (provided GS wins tonight ) I think people are underestimating the cavs offense. If it happens it will be close IMO

Well that's one of the biggest problems. I can't see LeBron guarding Green. If I'm not msotaken, he never has for more than a short period of time in any game we've faced the Warriors, probably because going up against a physical guy like Draymond takes a lot out him. He'll probably defend Barnes and Tristan will guard Green.

But unless LeBron takes on the challenge of guarding him, we'll get smoked. He's he only one on this team who can match Up against Draymond's versatility.

[te887848]

Yes, the Cavs match up very favorably to the Thunder but very unfavorably against the Warriors. All of it pretty much revolves around the horrific defense of Kyrie and Love, which would get badly exposed vs. GSW. LeBron will easily get his and dominate the series but the rest of his team's defense has no chance against the speed of the GSW offense.

[VideoGameJames]

Lebron guarding green could take a bunch of air out of GS's sails (provided GS wins tonight ) I think people are underestimating the cavs offense. If it happens it will be close IMO

Well that's one of the biggest problems. I can't see LeBron guarding Green. If I'm not msotaken, he never has for more than a short period of time in any game we've faced the Warriors, probably because going up against a physical guy like Draymond takes a lot out him. He'll probably defend Barnes and Tristan will guard Green.

But unless LeBron takes on the challenge of guarding him, we'll get smoked. He's he only one on this team who can match Up against Draymond's versatility.

Draymond seems like a volatile guy that will get frustrated if things don't go his way and hes a flagrant or 2 techs from an auto suspension. If TT can frustrate him on the boards like Adams has so far and Lebron can just do what KD has done in spots defending him in the PnR (especially end of game death lineup), I think they have a decent chance especially if they can shoot well.

[JordansBulls]

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

No they are not unless you consider the 2000 Lakers in the same class they would be virtually the same in a sense.

[chrispak98]

It appalls me to see so many people in the sports world not just disrespect LeBron, but also look at his accomplishments as if they mean nothing.

There is a reason why ESPN ranked him as the 3rd greatest player of all time. It's not just his 4 MVPS, 2 FMVPS, and his record-breaking PER seasons.

He has taken teams with Daniel Gibson and Eric Snow to the NBA finals, he holds arguably the GREATEST playoff performance EVER (Game 5 against Detroit, in which he essentially took down the Pistons Dynasty by himself), his 2008-2009 NBA season was arguably the greatest individual season of all time, and in 2013 his team won 27 games IN A ROW LeBron has shown an incredible ability to overtake games that very few other players have.

His game 5 against Detroit, his game 6 against Boston, heck, even his game 7 against the Spurs are all top 10-15 performances in the HISTORY of the NBA playoffs.

Not only that, but outside of his 2011 finals performance, he has been the best player on the court in every playoff series he has played. Yes, today, one can argue that Steph Curry is a better player than LeBron, but give me 2009 LeBron over any player in the league besides 2000 Shaq and 1989-1991 Jordan. The fact that LeBron at 31 years old is at worst the 2nd best player in the league means something. So my question is, why do you guys think LeBron's greatness is constantly being overlooked, not just in the media and among casual fans, but even within many NBA forums, which is supposedly made up of mostly "hardcore" fans

[SactoKingsFan]

LeBron's greatness isn't overlooked on the PC board. He's consensus top 10 all-time, was #7 (started getting votes at #4) in the 2014 top 100 project and his peak was voted #3 during last years peaks project.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[2klegend]

No he is not. He's at an age like Kobe 30s where there is another guy who is peaking and he's on the decline. Although that decline is small, it is enough for other star like Curry to catch him at his normal stage level. Now that Lebron finally get a chance to revenge against Curry, it is his "moment" to cement himself as the "undisputed best player" again. His legacy is on the line. If he lost, man, I hate to admit this but it will have a dramatic effect on people perception of him. I really hope Lebron can pull through and beat the Warriors in this Final because there is no one really deserve of Top 3 GOAT since MJ retired than Lebron. All he needs is to show that he can beat Curry's Warriors. He got the team to do it. There is no excuse for him.

[Texas Chuck]

sure. Its natural tho for there to be Lebron fatigue. Still one of the best players in the league and the championship goes through him for the 6th straight year. And frankly what Steph has does the last 2 years is worthy of the attention he's getting without it being any kind of negative reflection on Lebron.

Dude still has every chance of going down as the GOAT imo.

[ronnymac2]

Who?

[Texas Chuck]

there is no one really deserve of Top 3 GOAT since MJ retired than Lebron.

You might disagree but Duncan absolutely is in the conversation at least and potentially Shaq as well. And heck KG has supporters that high as well.

[2klegend]

there is no one really deserve of Top 3 GOAT since MJ retired than Lebron.

You might disagree but Duncan absolutely is in the conversation at least and potentially Shaq as well. And heck KG has supporters that high as well.

I love Duncan as much, if not more than anyone, in the basketball universe but trust me, Duncan's case for Top 3 ends in 2007. I don't even consider him winning his 5th rings that significant considering he wasn't the best player on that team. Though, his peak is relatively Top 10. He is a gamer, for sure, one you have to respect but Top 3? Nah. Top 5 argument? I can see it.

KG has no business being in Top 3. Anyone believe so don't deserve attention to evaluate.

[Texas Chuck]

Cutting off a decade of Duncan's career signals a vastly different approach than I take.....so I guess we will agree to disagree because our criteria is too different.

[GSP]

Love is gonna be the difference maker in this series. If hes hot n cold like he was in the Eastern conference trip to the finals, Cavs are gonna get routed in 5. If theyre gonna rover him with Draymond and he isnt aggressive and just remains spotting up 3s and not containing on defense, he isnt gonna be playing 4th quarters and will get maligned.

I also have a weird feeling with how Jrs playing, his matchup with Klay is gonna be very interesting. Jrs been clearly better on defense this season than the last. It gives more flexibility with Shump and Lebron if he can at least do a decent job on Klay this time compared to last finals.