Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Negrodamus]

I will say that if we take Simmons, I hope we keep Okafor and make Simmons a three. Rebounding won't be an issue, we'll have a guaranteed 20 ppg scorer, and hopefully we'll grab some good back court shooters that can play a little defense. Our defense will probably blow, but whatever. I'm just hoping we don't turn into Lamar Odom's Clippers.

I think Simmons at the 3 only works if the PF/C duo can shoot, like Millsap/Horford for example.

I think a PF/C duo including two of Okafor/Noel/Embiid only works if all three perimeter guys can shoot.

So basically I don't like the idea of Simmons at the 3 on this team. It would be a very talented frontcourt with diminished returns.

Then Simmons will be our Diaw/Odom off the bench. I'm sorry, but I'm not ready to put all my chips in on Simmons to where I'm removing either an elite defender in Noel or an elite scorer in Okafor just to make sure Simmons gets the ball. That's lunacy. That's literally what I was fearing: turning the Sixers into the 1999-2003 Clippers. Lots of young assets, talented 6'10 ball handler, can't sniff the playoffs. I mean they even had Elton Brand playing at an elite level for god's sake.

My fear is that he will be an unbelievable role player for a championship caliber team when his first contract runs up.

[05PhillyAI]

I will say that if we take Simmons, I hope we keep Okafor and make Simmons a three. Rebounding won't be an issue, we'll have a guaranteed 20 ppg scorer, and hopefully we'll grab some good back court shooters that can play a little defense. Our defense will probably blow, but whatever. I'm just hoping we don't turn into Lamar Odom's Clippers.

I think Simmons at the 3 only works if the PF/C duo can shoot, like Millsap/Horford for example.

I think a PF/C duo including two of Okafor/Noel/Embiid only works if all three perimeter guys can shoot.

So basically I don't like the idea of Simmons at the 3 on this team. It would be a very talented frontcourt with diminished returns.

Then Simmons will be our Diaw/Odom off the bench. I'm sorry, but I'm not ready to put all my chips in on Simmons to where I'm removing either an elite defender in Noel or an elite scorer in Okafor just to make sure Simmons gets the ball. That's lunacy. That's literally what I was fearing: turning the Sixers into the 1999-2003 Clippers. Lots of young assets, talented 6'10 ball handler, can't sniff the playoffs. I mean they even had Elton Brand playing at an elite level for god's sake.

My fear is that he will be an unbelievable role player for a championship caliber team when his first contract runs up.

Good points, sir.

And for those who believe Simmons is a three, I disagree. He's a four. In my opinion, his ceiling is a better ball handling, higher court awareness Griffin. No doubt an exciting player

[Mik317]

even if we take Ingram. Okafor or Noel's days are numbered. I think this idea that Jah can play the 4 is lunacy. He's a 5. Noel is also a 5. Embiid, if you can trust him at all.., is also a 5. Embiid will be cool coming off the bench until his body proves it can stay healthy.

And neither guy is elite at anything right now. Jah is a good scorer but often had to take 25 shots to get 25 points. Noel for all his skills often got ate by most bigs due to his frail body. Now of course both guys weren't put in the best of situations but as long as the other is still here...that will not change. Someone has to go.

As it stands however...we don't have a real 4 on the roster. hmmm....funny how that works

[Stanford]

I think Jerami is clearly a 4. Don't forget about Jerami!

[Negrodamus]

even if we take Ingram. Okafor or Noel's days are numbered. I think this idea that Jah can play the 4 is lunacy. He's a 5. Noel is also a 5. Embiid, if you can trust him at all.., is also a 5. Embiid will be cool coming off the bench until his body proves it can stay healthy.

And neither guy is elite at anything right now. Jah is a good scorer but often had to take 25 shots to get 25 points. Noel for all his skills often got ate by most bigs due to his frail body. Now of course both guys weren't put in the best of situations but as long as the other is still here...that will not change. Someone has to go.

As it stands however...we don't have a real 4 on the roster. hmmm....funny how that works

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3135048/jahlil-okafor

Please ignore anything before January of 20 year old Jahlil Okafor's Rookie season. That's the lasting impression he has left us with as a scorer. He did this with a garbage offensive cast which led to collapsing on him. He's elite.

If he can get his weight down and improve his lateral movement, he can be a PF. But that would be like completely rebuilding a jumpshot... it's hard to do.

[Kobblehead]

You're not an elite offensive player with a (-2.6) OBPM. You just aren't.

[Negrodamus]

You're not an elite offensive player with a (-2.6) OBPM. You just aren't.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonmo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ho hum. A bunch of -1.0+ OBPM with a few special appearances from HOFs.

[Kobblehead]

You're not an elite offensive player with a (-2.6) OBPM. You just aren't.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonmo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ho hum. A bunch of -1.0+ OBPM with a few special appearances from HOFs.

I didn't say guys who post a pitiful OBPM early in their career can't develop into an elite offensive player, eventually. I said there's no way you can consider them elite in the midst of them posting said pitiful mark. Considering Okafor elite offensively right now is just not appropriate. He can't even execute a pick and roll.

[Agnostifarian]

You're not an elite offensive player with a (-2.6) OBPM. You just aren't.

Literally taken, you are correct. However, in the context of the Negrodamous post, he is arguing that Jah would have better numbers if he was surrounded by better players. The same can be said about all players but Jah did find himself playing with the most sorry-assed pack of dogs to be found outside of D-League. Maybe we can agree that Jah has not played to his ceiling yet.

We are discussing individual players in this thread but their immediate and future success in PHI will depend mostly on what other players are here in October and how they are coached. Selecting Simmons almost requires blowing guys out--Okafor, Saric, Holmes and Noel could all be jettisoned for stuff that suits Simmons and Embiid. If I had as much faith in Simmons as so many others, that's what I'd want. Gone to all the "losing ways" of the "prospects we haven't developed" or have "ruined."

I'd rather build some hoky squad around Simmons than Okafor. Simmons can dictate pace and make a team fast. I choose that.

Select Ingram and you don't have to blow anyone out although I'm down with shipping OK4 now.

Like I've been saying, I don't dislike Simmons. My perfect world says trade for #2 and take both. I only dislike you stubborn people who deny that Simmons has warts.

edit--replaced hate with dislike

[Negrodamus]

You're not an elite offensive player with a (-2.6) OBPM. You just aren't.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonmo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ho hum. A bunch of -1.0+ OBPM with a few special appearances from HOFs.

I didn't say guys who post a pitiful OBPM early in their career can't develop into an elite offensive player, eventually. I said there's no way you can consider them elite in the midst of them posting said pitiful mark. Considering Okafor elite offensively right now is just not appropriate. He can't even execute a pick and roll.

Okay. From watching his ability to score almost at will, 18 ppg on 60ish% in his final two months, he's one of these aforementioned elite scorers who is developing.

[Kobblehead]

Or he could just be Rony Seikaly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_BY7QOC4U

Watch at the :27 second mark. Look familiar? Also, at 1:34.

I don't see how it's a lock for Jahlil Okafor to become an elite offensive player. Right now he has awesome footwork and some really good individual scoring moves. Can't run the pick and roll, has mediocre range, thrives on pace-draining isolation post-ups. He could very well just be Spin Doctor 2.0.

[eyeatoma]

Why are we having a convo about Okafor when this should be about Simmons and Ingram?

[Mik317]

Why are we having a convo about Okafor when this should be about Simmons and Ingram?

It always comes back to Okafor bro. IIRC we had a thread about football or some **** and it turned into an Okafor **** flinging contest.

One of the two non Embiid bigs are gone regardless of whoever we pick. Ingram while definitely helpful to Jah...doesn't change that someone will be butthurt about coming off the bench or worse not fit. Embiid will not be able to play major minutes. Noel and Jah don't fit. Neither pick changes that (although Simmons makes it even more of an certanty someone has to go).

[Kobblehead]

Like I've been saying, I don't dislike Simmons. My perfect world says trade for #2 and take both. I only dislike you stubborn people who deny that Simmons has warts.

edit--replaced hate with dislike

Who denies Simmons' flaws? I been perusing this thread from the beginning and haven't seen a single person on Team Simmons pretend he was infallible.

[Negrodamus]

Or he could just be Rony Seikaly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_BY7QOC4U

Watch at the :27 second mark. Look familiar? Also, at 1:34.

I don't see how it's a lock for Jahlil Okafor to become an elite offensive player. Right now he has awesome footwork and some really good individual scoring moves. Can't run the pick and roll, has mediocre range, thrives on pace-draining isolation post-ups. He could very well just be Spin Doctor 2.0.

Does look familiar. Jahlil is currently a prime Rony Seikaly since he is putting up his career high in scoring and FG%. Should be scary to see what Jahlil turns into as he gets more comfortable in the league and has infinitely better teammates than this year. Probably going to surpass the Seikaly stratosphere in the beginning of next year.

[Agnostifarian]

Hakeem vs Seikaly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQHiWncY5bc

[Kobblehead]

Embiid vs. Okafor preview for the ECF in 2019.

[Agnostifarian]

Mock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-P_53dn7Ts

[LongLiveHinkie]

Why are we having a convo about Okafor when this should be about Simmons and Ingram?

We've been talking about it for 85 pages. I think some Okafor conversation is fine at this point.

[Agnostifarian]

Radio link: Chad Ford -- Simmons/PHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRaIR4sf4_s