Twin Towers -or- Why does small-ball work?

Post #1 » by **NuggetsWY** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:31 pm

Jokic & Nurkic playing together could work better than OKC's Kanter-Adams lineup.

It seems like small-ball is popular because offensive players are so great that they tend to blow by their primary defender so defensive help is needed and smaller players move quicker. If the Nuggets truly work on defense both individually and as a team where they help each other and cover for each other AND where they help the helper and recover faster; two bigs can work, especially on a deep team where guys don't have to play long stretches.

IF, and that's a big IF, the Nuggets can become that defensive team, Nurkic-Jokic on the floor at the same time would be extremely difficult to stop. Imagine Jokic at the top of the key with Nurkic flashing low. If the other team doesn't double, Jokic's passing shreds their defense. If they double Nurkic, they have to leave Jokic open? Better not. If the Nuggets pick up some players with good 3pt shooting and/or Mudiay & Harris improve plus Chandler & Gallinari??? Open 3s could be raining.

But that's just my opinion.

Powder Blue · Post #2 » by **Powder Blue** » Sat May 28, 2016 5:29 pm

Just read an article on Denver Stiffs about gettin Noel to pair with Jokic. Interesting idea. Fact remains this current roster won't be raining down 3's anytime soon. Towers will only be effective if they can kick out to guys who can knock down shots consistently.

eathb_au · Post #3 » by **eathb_au** » Mon May 30, 2016 7:57 am

For us,we 100% need a shotblocking presence out there. Our guys way overhelp in the paint, it's not even the young guys, it's even the vets like DA. I don't have numbers but I would bet our 3pt defense was way better with Nurkic on the floor.

Despite Malone being a good defensive coach for every team he was on, it was a bit odd/unusual how our defense was pretty terrible. Arguably the worst I've seen in our history.

Post #4 » by **The Rebel** » Mon May 30, 2016 11:20 am

Powder Blue wrote:Just read an article on Denver Stiffs about gettin Noel to pair with Jokic. Interesting idea. Fact remains this current roster won't be raining down 3's anytime soon. Towers will only be effective if they can kick out to guys who can knock down shots consistently.

I do not get the fascination with Noel, he is not that good and is bad on offense. I would prefer to just find a way to play Nurkic and Jokic together, if we are going to work on getting 2 bigs to play together. Nurkic is a very similar level shot blocker and is a better overall defender than Noel and has a chance to be considerably better than Noel on offense if Nurkic can get healthy and start finishing in the paint again.

Post #5 » by **The Rebel** » Mon May 30, 2016 11:22 am

eathb_au wrote:For us,we 100% need a shotblocking presence out there. Our guys way overhelp in the paint, it's not even the young guys, it's even the vets like DA. I don't have numbers but I would bet our 3pt defense was way better with Nurkic on the floor.

Despite Malone being a good defensive coach for every team he was on, it was a bit odd/unusual how our defense was pretty terrible. Arguably the worst I've seen in our history.

When you play so many young players than you are going to have problems on defense, there really is no way around it. I expect the entire team to be better on defense this year. Also while advanced stats love DA, I have never really thought he was a great defender, he is a good one, but he does not shut down the lane nor does he do much other than defend the pick and roll well.

Post #6 » by **NuggetsWY** » Mon May 30, 2016 2:19 pm

The Rebel wrote:
eathb_au wrote:For us,we 100% need a shotblocking presence out there. Our guys way overhelp in the paint, it's not even the young guys, it's even the vets like DA. I don't have numbers but I would bet our 3pt defense was way better with Nurkic on the floor.

Despite Malone being a good defensive coach for every team he was on, it was a bit odd/unusual how our defense was pretty terrible. Arguably the worst I've seen in our history.

When you play so many young players than you are going to have problems on defense, there really is no way around it. I expect the entire team to be better on defense this year. Also while advanced stats love DA, I have never really thought he was a great defender, he is a good one, but he does not shut down the lane nor does he do much other than defend the pick and roll well.

Defense is NOT what young people focus on - footwork is what our high school basketball coach EMPHASIZED along with positioning and THINKING --- the way players close out on a 3pt shooter today is ridiculous - usually they run right by him as he gives a fake and then he is wide open to shoot or drive --- watch most players on a pick-n-roll and on the same team there is usually no consistency and so someone is left open, switching might leave a little covering a big but on the good teams, someone else will help and/or do another switch and they do it so seamlessly that most fans don't even notice --- another phrase that most NBA teams don't teach is to "help the helper" and that is an art - watch the top defensive teams carefully and don't watch the ball - watch the off-ball defenders and when someone helps or doubles or whatever, someone else slides over to help, another off-ball defender slides over to cover their man and they leave the man furthest from the ball open (and they watch for a pass heading towards him that they might intercept) --- that's all hard to teach when young people grow up playing offense and watching when on defense

The Rebel wrote:I do not get the fascination with Noel, he is not that good and is bad on offense. I would prefer to just find a way to play Nurkic and Jokic together, if we are going to work on getting 2 bigs to play together. Nurkic is a very similar level shot blocker and is a better overall defender than Noel and has a chance to be considerably better than Noel on offense if Nurkic can get healthy and start finishing in the paint again.

Totally agree with Rebel on this one.

Noel has some great highlights but he averages less than 2 blocks per game and less than 2 steals per game and his on-man defense is not the best - add to that his poor free throw shooting and you can't use him at the end of a close game - using Hollinger's PER rating system, Noel is barely above average and ranks as something around the 100th best player in the NBA --- is he good? yes - is he great? NO WAY and frankly, I wouldn't want to see him on the Nuggets --- but that's just my opinion (and I did actually consider him for a few days when it was first suggest - mostly because of his highlight videos)

Logan18 · Post #7 » by **Logan18** » Mon May 30, 2016 6:13 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
eathb_au wrote:For us,we 100% need a shotblocking presence out there. Our guys way overhelp in the paint, it's not even the young guys, it's even the vets like DA. I don't have numbers but I would bet our 3pt defense was way better with Nurkic on the floor.

Despite Malone being a good defensive coach for every team he was on, it was a bit odd/unusual how our defense was pretty terrible. Arguably the worst I've seen in our history.

When you play so many young players than you are going to have problems on defense, there really is no way around it. I expect the entire team to be better on defense this year. Also while advanced stats love DA, I have never really thought he was a great defender, he is a good one, but he does not shut down the lane nor does he do much other than defend the pick and roll well.

Defense is NOT what young people focus on - footwork is what our high school basketball coach EMPHASIZED along with positioning and THINKING --- the way players close out on a 3pt shooter today is ridiculous - usually they run right by him as he gives a fake and then he is wide open to shoot or drive --- watch most players on a pick-n-roll and on the same team there is usually no consistency and so someone is left open, switching might leave a little covering a big but on the good teams, someone else will help and/or do another switch and they do it so seamlessly that most fans don't even notice --- another phrase that most NBA teams don't teach is to "help the helper" and that is an art - watch the top defensive teams carefully and don't watch the ball - watch the off-ball defenders and when someone helps or doubles or whatever, someone else slides over to help, another off-ball defender slides over to cover their man and they leave the man furthest from the ball open (and they watch for a pass heading towards him that they might intercept) --- that's all hard to teach when young people grow up playing offense and watching when on defense
The Rebel wrote:I do not get the fascination with Noel, he is not that good and is bad on offense. I would prefer to just find a way to play Nurkic and Jokic together, if we are going to work on getting 2 bigs to play together. Nurkic is a very similar level shot blocker and is a better overall defender than Noel and has a chance to be considerably better than Noel on offense if Nurkic can get healthy and start finishing in the paint again.

Totally agree with Rebel on this one.

Noel has some great highlights but he averages less than 2 blocks per game and less than 2 steals per game and his on-man defense is not the best - add to that his poor free throw shooting and you can't use him at the end of a close game - using Hollinger's PER rating system, Noel is barely above average and ranks as something around the 100th best player in the NBA --- is he good? yes - is he great? NO WAY and frankly, I wouldn't want to see him on the Nuggets --- but that's just my opinion (and I did actually consider him for a few days when it was first suggest - mostly because of his highlight videos)

The reason why we would want Noel isn't because he is a better overall player than Nurkic-he isn't right now. He's intriguing because he brings some of the same shot blocking that nurkic does, but he can also chase guys around the perimeter, something neither nurkic or Jokic does well. I would love for the Jurkic experiment to work, but I just don't see it happening with all of the small ball in the NBA. Hopefully they prove me wrong. Noel could be a very good piece next to Jokic defensively, and you never know, surrounding him with some offensive talent may help him be a serviceable offensive player.

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skywalker33 · Post #8 » by **skywalker33** » Mon May 30, 2016 7:46 pm

Personally, I could see selecting Deyonta Davis, he's a pretty good rim-protector and I'd bet we could trade 15 & 19 to get him to play PF next to Jokic. Select either Hield, Murray or Brown at #7 and call it a good draft.

Post #9 » by **NuggetsWY** » Tue May 31, 2016 12:12 am

skywalker33 wrote:Personally, I could see selecting Deyonta Davis, he's a pretty good rim-protector and I'd bet we could trade 15 & 19 to get him to play PF next to Jokic. Select either Hield, Murray or Brown at #7 and call it a good draft.

Don't you think Davis will be there at #15? A couple of reasonable mock drafts actually have Denver drafting him at #15 but most of them have him going before #15 but not above #10 (for what that's worth).

If we could get Hield or Murray or Brown plus Davis, that would be worth trading up - my opinion. I like it!