'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[GSP]

Maybe some people would tell that Thunder choked, because they had 3:1 led and still lose. But the truth is that when Warriors were under pressure they elevated their game on insane level, especially on defense. Thunder did better than anyone could and there is no shame in losing to one of the best teams ever. And thus I definitely wouldn't rank Russ or KD lower based on what they did in this series - if anything their play vs GSW impressed me (Durant is elite defender!) and I'm seriously considering putting them both above Kawhi.

I think Russ has to be above Kawhi and 3rd after Lebron/Steph but i dont see Kd>Kawhi. Kd outplayed him in their series and badly in possibly the swing game 4 and yeah Kds defense this series was insane arguably the best defender in the series but thats not reflective of his actual level IMO. Hes never played defense close to this i dont think putting him above Kawhi considering his consistent body of work throughout the season makes sense.

[mikejames23]

In your average year, I feel OKC wins the title. Their only fault may have been going against a 73-9 team. That little 7-0 KD run at the end convinced me that. The team played with a ton of heart even after GSW's 3rd Quarter barrage...really there's only so much you can do when you throw some of the better defenders in the league and they STILL nail the 3 ball like it were an open layup.

The commentators did point to OKC's players arguing against themselves, though. Wonder if there were chemistry issues at all.

[GSP]

Well it looks like the GSW figured out the best strategy against a more-than-worthy opponent, from utilizing their bench more, to playing a bit bigger, to even changing their starting lineup in GM 7.

I don't really think GSW figured out anything. Not trying to rain on their parade and if people think I am being unfair feel free to call me out. They mostly won games 6 and 7 on two guys making contests 3s at an insane rate. Thunder made mistakes in both these games but never did I feel that GSW finally figured out the Thunder's defense except they have a real life NBA 2k shot making duo. If Klay isn't making those BS contested 3s in game 6 right now we are gearing up for a Cavs-OKC Finals. Today they were leading at the half and then in the 3rd quarter Curry started making those crazy 3s.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/737495824742027264[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/737475934324826113[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/737470348023595008[/tweet]

They are the Goat shot making team tho. Its a big part of why their offense is what it is specially on Steph and Klay and how guys like Barnes/Iggy/Speights seem to always hit back breaking and momentum swinging shots. Draymond and Livingston to a lesser extent.

Yeah Okc beat Gs in more areas but at the end of the day the shot making, especially this season considering they arent as good on defense as last season, is what makes this Warriors a top 10 alltime team.

[ronnymac2]

Well it looks like the GSW figured out the best strategy against a more-than-worthy opponent, from utilizing their bench more, to playing a bit bigger, to even changing their starting lineup in GM 7.

I don't really think GSW figured out anything. Not trying to rain on their parade and if people think I am being unfair feel free to call me out. They mostly won games 6 and 7 on two guys making contests 3s at an insane rate. Thunder made mistakes in both these games but never did I feel that GSW finally figured out the Thunder's defense except they have a real life NBA 2k shot making duo. If Klay isn't making those BS contested 3s in game 6 right now we are gearing up for a Cavs-OKC Finals. Today they were leading at the half and then in the 3rd quarter Curry started making those crazy 3s.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/737495824742027264[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/737475934324826113[/tweet]

That's a good point, but rebounding plays a big part. In OKC's wins, they dominated the boards. In Golden State's wins, GS either won or the margin was way closer (Outrebounded by 3 per game in final 2 games). Golden State dropped a roughly 110 ORTG in these finals 2 games, much more in line with what we'd expect against a strong defense.

Also, Curry and Thompson have shown over incredibly large sample sizes to be the two greatest volume 3-point shooters ever. When they go cookoo bananas, is it that they are a real life NBA2K duo who got hot at the right time, or is it just them being them?

[PaulieWal]

Also, Curry and Thompson have shown over incredibly large sample sizes to be the two greatest volume 3-point shooters ever. When they go cookoo bananas, is it that they are a real life NBA2K duo who got hot at the right time, or is it just them being them?

I do think this is definitely a case of them being a real life NBA 2k duo.

Making 3s off of good looks is one thing, but they have reached a level where it doesn't matter what defense you play they are going to make BS contested 3s. It's not like OKC played bad defense on Klay in game 6. He was hitting ridiculous contested 3s. Same with Steph in game 7 to an extent.

This is nothing to take away from GSW and for me they are a definitely a top 2 or 3 GOAT team. All I am saying is there's a difference in what the Splash Bros are doing now versus even last year. I never had the feeling last year that the defense you play on them is almost irrelevant. Not it seems like there will be at least 1-2 games a series where they are going to make contested, crazy 3s and your defense on them doesn't even matter. And that's what so many analysts on Twitter today were noting. OKC was playing good D and then seeing contested 3s go in. That's gotta hurt and that's what is making the Warriors so great for me.

The unprecedented ability of Curry and Klay to hit shots like this is real life 2K and they have that "video game cheese".

[ronnymac2]

^^^OK but Paulie, even if GSW were going NBA2K in GMs 6 and 7, it wouldn't have mattered if they were being beaten on the glass by margins similar to GMs 3 and 4. GSW adjusted and found a way to get closer in one of the Four Factors (Rebounding), enough to allow their advantage in eFG% through unholy 3-point shooting to get them wins. They adjusted against one of if not the best rebounding teams in the league to do this.

[Clyde Frazier]

Heh, well when you put it like that, I think many will be resistant to it. I probably do do that, but I don't see it as a curve. This might explain to some degree why I saw Curry and the Warriors' playoff performance last year so differently from many.

I tend to look at the Warriors' ability to respond and "take back" the series, along with Curry's (and now Klay's) ability to simplify their game and "go off" at the right time, as an incredibly impressive strength. I won't say that I think their playoff performance rivals the 2001 Lakers, but other than that, I don't see any reason to DQ them from comparisons with pretty much any other team & star.

Then again, I've maintained all year that while Curry had the GOAT regular season in my mind, I don't like evaluate how a current player truly stacks up until the end of the playoffs, so I look forward to the discussion at that time.

For anyone who watched the warriors enough this season (hooray league pass), you learned they were just never out of any game. This goes back to pretty early in the season when they were down 20+ in the first half to the clippers. They're just too potent offensively and good enough defensively to go on these mini runs in a matter of minutes that get them right back in the game.

So yeah, while the thunder really pushed them to the edge this series and made them look mortal, i'm not surprised they were able to turn it around and force a game 7. You don't win the most games in league history without having that ability. Can't wait for the game tonight... getting anxious in anticipation.

Who do you want to win?

Im torn because I think Golden State's season has been too good that anything but a championship would be a disappointment and as a curry fan I want him to make it to the finals. However as a lebron fan, he has a much better chance vs the thunder and could have a story books finals and win.


Im in shambles but thats what happens when you like players from the west and east, i wonder if there were any fans of bird and magic, I should be happy because I would be cool with any outcome but that almosts guarantees someone I like or two people will be disappointed. It's tough. Im just gonna play my cool music soundtrack playlist in the background and enjoy what happens most likely.

I'm a big fan of curry, so I want to see him cap off this historic season with the championship. Unfortunately draymond's antics have soured me on him, but I'm still trying to enjoy the Warriors performance as a whole. Plenty of other guys worth rooting for on there.

[Dr Spaceman]

Also, Curry and Thompson have shown over incredibly large sample sizes to be the two greatest volume 3-point shooters ever. When they go cookoo bananas, is it that they are a real life NBA2K duo who got hot at the right time, or is it just them being them?

I do think this is definitely a case of them being a real life NBA 2k duo.

Making 3s off of good looks is one thing, but they have reached a level where it doesn't matter what defense you play they are going to make BS contested 3s. It's not like OKC played bad defense on Klay in game 6. He was hitting ridiculous contested 3s. Same with Steph in game 7 to an extent.

This is nothing to take away from GSW and for me they are a definitely a top 2 or 3 GOAT team. All I am saying is there's a difference in what the Splash Bros are doing now versus even last year. I never had the feeling last year that the defense you play on them is almost irrelevant. Not it seems like there will be at least 1-2 games a series where they are going to make contested, crazy 3s and your defense on them doesn't even matter. And that's what so many analysts on Twitter today were noting. OKC was playing good D and then seeing contested 3s go in. That's gotta hurt and that's what is making the Warriors so great for me.

The unprecedented ability of Curry and Klay to hit shots like this is real life 2K and they have that "video game cheese".

The defense was not irrelevant though. Watch the film of Curry's 3rd quarter again, every single one of Curry's step back 3s was over Ibaka or Adams. When Curry got Durant or WB was able to fight through the screen, he wasn't getting the separation he wanted and the miracle kick-out pass he made to Iguoidala would have been a block/strip/embarrassing mistake had he shot the ball in that situation (an over-the-shoulder cross-court kick out pass should've been a turnover anyway if Waiters wasn't asleep all the time). I told Donovan at halftime he should've stopped switching but no one listens to me.

Regardless, you're pushing this off as if it's just luck that they're hitting these shots. It's not. They're two of the most skilled players ever. I don't understand why a team capitalizing on its greatest strengths can be called "video game cheese".

[PaulieWal]

Regardless, you're pushing this off as if it's just luck that they're hitting these shots. It's not. They're two of the most skilled players ever. I don't understand why a team capitalizing on its greatest strengths can be called "video game cheese".

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that this was just "luck". I said after game 6 that this only solidifies their GOAT-ness for me. On this very page I said they are definitely a top 2 or 3 GOAT team for me....

It's "video game cheese" because that's literally what it is for anyone that's played 2K. It's a compliment to say that we have two video game shot makers in the league on the same team. There are no other players in the history of the league who have the bad 3 shot making ability of these two.

I wasn't the only one. I posted some tweets above as well, most analysts last night were noting how demoralizing it must be for OKC to do everything right and then see contested 3s go in. I am not sure why that bothers you when that's basically the difference in OKC losing and winning games 6 and 7. And from what I remember you were in agreement with me after game 6.

Again, this isn't "luck" but a very rare skill that only 2 players have in the entire league. Credit to them for winning this series and getting to the Finals.

Edit: Damian Lillard has some of this but it's nowhere close to this volume and accuracy on those "bad 3s".

[Dr Spaceman]

Spoiler:

Regardless, you're pushing this off as if it's just luck that they're hitting these shots. It's not. They're two of the most skilled players ever. I don't understand why a team capitalizing on its greatest strengths can be called "video game cheese".

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that this was just "luck". I said after game 6 that this only solidifies their GOAT-ness for me. On this very page I said they are definitely a top 2 or 3 GOAT team for me....

It's "video game cheese" because that's literally what it is for anyone that's played 2K. It's a compliment to say that we have two video game shot makers in the league on the same team. There are no other players in the history of the league who have the bad 3 shot making ability of these two.

I wasn't the only one. I posted some tweets above as well, most analysts last night were noting how demoralizing it must be for OKC to do everything right and then see contested 3s go in. I am not sure why that bothers you when that's basically the difference in OKC losing and winning games 6 and 7. And from what I remember you were in agreement with me after game 6.

Again, this isn't "luck" but a very rare skill that only 2 players have in the entire league. Credit to them for winning this series and getting to the Finals.

Edit: Damian Lillard has some of this but it's nowhere close to this volume and accuracy on those "bad 3s".

Okay, but there's a communication issue when you call something "bull****" and then say you mean it as a complement. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just don't see another interpretation for that phrase.

[PaulieWal]

Spoiler:

Regardless, you're pushing this off as if it's just luck that they're hitting these shots. It's not. They're two of the most skilled players ever. I don't understand why a team capitalizing on its greatest strengths can be called "video game cheese".

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say that this was just "luck". I said after game 6 that this only solidifies their GOAT-ness for me. On this very page I said they are definitely a top 2 or 3 GOAT team for me....

It's "video game cheese" because that's literally what it is for anyone that's played 2K. It's a compliment to say that we have two video game shot makers in the league on the same team. There are no other players in the history of the league who have the bad 3 shot making ability of these two.

I wasn't the only one. I posted some tweets above as well, most analysts last night were noting how demoralizing it must be for OKC to do everything right and then see contested 3s go in. I am not sure why that bothers you when that's basically the difference in OKC losing and winning games 6 and 7. And from what I remember you were in agreement with me after game 6.

Again, this isn't "luck" but a very rare skill that only 2 players have in the entire league. Credit to them for winning this series and getting to the Finals.

Edit: Damian Lillard has some of this but it's nowhere close to this volume and accuracy on those "bad 3s".

Okay, but there's a communication issue when you call something "bull****" and then say you mean it as a complement. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just don't see another interpretation for that phrase.

But they are "BS contested 3s" . For 99.99% of the league they are absolutely horrible shots and coaches would be more than happy giving up those shots to anyone except for Curry and Klay lol.

Again, we talked about all of this after game 6 when we were discussing Klay hitting those ridiculous 3s with OKC defenders draped over him and this was exactly the term that I was using, not sure why you think now that this translates into luck. We both agreed how ridiculous it is that Curry/Klay can do this for a game each every series.

The only difference is that Klay/Curry have taken their games up a level. Last year they did this a bit but this year both of them are on another level with Curry significantly upping his volume and destroying the league with his 35 footers (most of them contested).

Either way, I am not sure how this team gets beaten when you pencil in Curry/Klay for 2 of these games and your team is going to be in an 0-2 hole every series at the very least.

[kayess]

It's like saying "KD is a bad, bad man" to mean he's an incredibly good player.

The 3s they take are so bad, that if anyone could make them at a passable rate it'd be great. These guys are making it at or above the league average rate for ALL 3s. That's **** insane, a.k.a., bull lol

[kabstah]

It's like saying "KD is a bad, bad man" to mean he's an incredibly good player.

The 3s they take are so bad, that if anyone could make them at a passable rate it'd be great. These guys are making it at or above the league average rate for ALL 3s. That's **** insane, a.k.a., bull lol

Eh, it's not quite the same.

"BS video game cheese" implies that there's something dishonorable or illegitimate about the tactic being used that doesn't quite cross the line into cheating, no matter how effective it is. It's typically a sore loserish thing to say, "You won, buuuuuuut..." Etc.

Maybe that wasn't Paulie's intention, but that's how it comes across to me any time someone says something like that.

[PaulieWal]

It's like saying "KD is a bad, bad man" to mean he's an incredibly good player.

The 3s they take are so bad, that if anyone could make them at a passable rate it'd be great. These guys are making it at or above the league average rate for ALL 3s. That's **** insane, a.k.a., bull lol

Eh, it's not quite the same.

"BS video game cheese" implies that there's something dishonorable or illegitimate about the tactic being used that doesn't quite cross the line into cheating, no matter how effective it is. It's typically a sore loserish thing to say, "You won, buuuuuuut..." Etc.

Maybe that wasn't Paulie's intention, but that's how it comes across to me any time someone says something like that.

What?



Maybe some of you should read NBA twitter from last night. Most analysts were saying the same thing. Anyway, it is what it is. I am done with this line of thought because you can't even acknowledge that how unusual and unprecedented it is that Curry/Klay are doing this without getting people upset. This is me despite saying they are solidified as a GOAT team for me because of their 2K shooting. Oh well.....

[KD35Brah]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/737650115599425538[/tweet]

[Texas Chuck]

I honestly have no idea why Paulie is getting killed over that. Especially since he has now (over) explained himself multiple times.

He speaks true. Their shot-making ability is unlike anything we've ever seen before and when they are on like that, it almost doesn't matter how the rest of the game plays out. But it's not luck, its skill. And its a huge part of what makes that team so dangerous. Mind you they are good enough to beat you without Curry/Klay going 13/23 from 3. But they can, and do, and its nearly impossible to overcome.

[PaulieWal]

I honestly have no idea why Paulie is getting killed over that. Especially since he has now (over) explained himself multiple times.

He speaks true. Their shot-making ability is unlike anything we've ever seen before and when they are on like that, it almost doesn't matter how the rest of the game plays out. But it's not luck, its skill. And its a huge part of what makes that team so dangerous. Mind you they are good enough to beat you without Curry/Klay going 13/23 from 3. But they can, and do, and its nearly impossible to overcome.

I also said the same thing after game 6 BTW and was even defending GSW as a GOAT team in an argument with JB in the LeBron thread. My posts are there for people to see, not like I am making it up....

Spoiler:

Is there a reason why everytime the Cleveland curse is on the verge of being broken there is some sort of historic feat standing in the way? Like come the eff on. We were the favorites in 2009, then the average Magic made a historic effort at shooting the 3 and hit like 20 a game against us. Then got smacked down. Then we have a chance and Kyrie/Love get injured. Now we have a chance but we are literally facing one of the greatest teams of all time who seem to have every ball bounce their way.

Can we just win god dadfrojfr without some historic feat or team being put in our way! Ce just face a normal team in the finals that isn't historically relevant for the love of god.

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

As we all acknowledge that yes, it is skill and not mere "luck". The point is we have never seen a skill like this ever in the history of the game. Knocking down open 3s or catch and shoot 3s with high accuracy is one thing, these two are completely taking their 3 point shot making to another level over this season. Last season we saw shades of this, this season they won 73 games with it and just came back from 3-1 deficit against a team playing elite defense in the PS.

You can call those shots whatever you wanna call them but they are definitely not good shots for anybody else in the league and no one has ever made them at this rate before. I mean on the PC board we all try to credit teams/players that move the ball, find the open man, cut, and create mismatches. Those contested 3s definitely don't fit the definition of "good fundamental basketball". GSW does all of the good stuff AND they hit contested 3s at an astonishing rate (which was the main reason for them winning games 6 & 7).

[PaulieWal]

I honestly have no idea why Paulie is getting killed over that. Especially since he has now (over) explained himself multiple times.

He speaks true. Their shot-making ability is unlike anything we've ever seen before and when they are on like that, it almost doesn't matter how the rest of the game plays out. But it's not luck, its skill. And its a huge part of what makes that team so dangerous. Mind you they are good enough to beat you without Curry/Klay going 13/23 from 3. But they can, and do, and its nearly impossible to overcome.

I also said the same thing after game 6 BTW and was even defending GSW as a GOAT team in an argument with JB in the LeBron thread. My posts are there for people to see, not like I am making it up....

Spoiler:

Is there a reason why everytime the Cleveland curse is on the verge of being broken there is some sort of historic feat standing in the way? Like come the eff on. We were the favorites in 2009, then the average Magic made a historic effort at shooting the 3 and hit like 20 a game against us. Then got smacked down. Then we have a chance and Kyrie/Love get injured. Now we have a chance but we are literally facing one of the greatest teams of all time who seem to have every ball bounce their way.

Can we just win god dadfrojfr without some historic feat or team being put in our way! Ce just face a normal team in the finals that isn't historically relevant for the love of god.

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

As we all acknowledge that yes, it is skill and not mere "luck". The point is we have never seen a skill like this ever in the history of the game. Knocking down open 3s or catch and shoot 3s with high accuracy is one thing, these two are completely taking their 3 point shot making to another level over this season. Last season we saw shades of this, this season they won 73 games with it and just came back from 3-1 deficit against a team playing elite defense in the PS.

You can call those shots whatever you wanna call them but they are definitely not good shots for anybody else in the league and no one has ever made them at this rate before. I mean on the PC board we all try to credit teams/players that move the ball, find the open man, cut, and create mismatches. Those contested 3s definitely don't fit the definition of "good fundamental basketball". GSW does all of the good stuff AND they hit contested 3s at an astonishing rate (which was the main reason for them winning games 6 & 7).

[Quotatious]

For me, game 7 pretty much made Curry a mortal lock for #1 this year. Outstanding performance under pressure, and something tells me that his entire series against OKC will get underrated in retrospect.

It would take an absolutely colossal meltdown for Curry and GOAT finals by LeBron for me to even consider putting James ahead, overall. Curry would have to play like LeBron in the 2007 or 2011 finals, and LeBron would have to play like 1991 Jordan or 2000 Shaq, at the same time.

[RSCD3_]

I honestly have no idea why Paulie is getting killed over that. Especially since he has now (over) explained himself multiple times.

He speaks true. Their shot-making ability is unlike anything we've ever seen before and when they are on like that, it almost doesn't matter how the rest of the game plays out. But it's not luck, its skill. And its a huge part of what makes that team so dangerous. Mind you they are good enough to beat you without Curry/Klay going 13/23 from 3. But they can, and do, and its nearly impossible to overcome.

I also said the same thing after game 6 BTW and was even defending GSW as a GOAT team in an argument with JB in the LeBron thread. My posts are there for people to see, not like I am making it up....

Spoiler:

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

As we all acknowledge that yes, it is skill and not mere "luck". The point is we have never seen a skill like this ever in the history of the game. Knocking down open 3s or catch and shoot 3s with high accuracy is one thing, these two are completely taking their 3 point shot making to another level over this season. Last season we saw shades of this, this season they won 73 games with it and just came back from 3-1 deficit against a team playing elite defense in the PS.

You can call those shots whatever you wanna call them but they are definitely not good shots for anybody else in the league and no one has ever made them at this rate before. I mean on the PC board we all try to credit teams/players that move the ball, find the open man, cut, and create mismatches. Those contested 3s definitely don't fit the definition of "good fundamental basketball". GSW does all of the good stuff AND they hit contested 3s at an astonishing rate (which was the main reason for them winning games 6 & 7).

The general gist of your original statement makes it seem like GS was playing ISo ball when q lot of there scores were contested because okc swarmed them very well, so it's not like golden state is selfish and making plays by not playing the right way its that okc's defense was so good that the warriors had much less open shots than normal.