Draft Thread Part 2

[bwgood77]

Yeah, there are just too many bigs that are in a similar mold of "stretch big" that it doesn't make sense to reach for one at 4. We are the only team in the top 5 considering Bender, and if we pass, how far does he fall?

I'm sure BOS is strongly considering Bender.

Pretty sure I read a report that they Love him. I would bet he is the pick at 3 if it is not traded.

Yeah, that's my fear, though it would obviously appease many people in these parts. Bender support seems split big time. Maybe moreso than I remember people split on a prospect. I know there was much difference in preferences on McLemore, Noel and Len a few years ago, but this year it seems crazy.

[JMac1]

I'm sure BOS is strongly considering Bender.

Pretty sure I read a report that they Love him. I would bet he is the pick at 3 if it is not traded.

Yeah, that's my fear, though it would obviously appease many people in these parts. Bender support seems split big time. Maybe moreso than I remember people split on a prospect. I know there was much difference in preferences on McLemore, Noel and Len a few years ago, but this year it seems crazy.

I think it is more you prefer Bender over everything and others here would rather have Okafor then Brown, but would be ok with Bender (except maybe 2 posters who don't like....trust Bender).

Brown shows more all around upside then Bender in his clips. Bender upside is provided by "scouts" more than his clips. I only see spot up threes from Bender, very good end to end speed, decent passing, and phenomenal lateral quickness on D when I watch him, playing against pretty much kids. I would like to see more shot creation from him, otherwise I think he is more of a Channing Frye with better perimeter D, and like some have said, boom or bust at 4.

As of now, I don't see Bender having the ball handed to him in the half-court at crunch time and the coach telling him to go to work. Okafor obviously, and Brown's high FT rate says the same. I like the bull in a china shop "weakness" of Brown. Better have the Westbrook mentality and have him bring it under control vs the Wes Johnson or dare I say Simmons mentality.

[JMac1]

[letsgosuns]

Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are two of the greatest shooters in NBA history. Curry is probably the best of all time and Thompson might be in the top five or ten. It is unrealistic to think Buddy Hield or anybody else in the draft will be like either one of them. Now I am 100% all for getting the best shooters you can through the draft or other means but I am in no way going to use Curry or Thompson as the standard for players in the draft. That is totally unfair. No one knows what any of these players will actually play like.

[Cactus Jack]

Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are two of the greatest shooters in NBA history. Curry is probably the best of all time and Thompson might be in the top five or ten. It is unrealistic to think Buddy Hield or anybody else in the draft will be like either one of them. Now I am 100% all for getting the best shooters you can through the draft or other means but I am in no way going to use Curry or Thompson as the standard for players in the draft. That is totally unfair. No one knows what any of these players will actually play like.

As they say, its a copy cat league. If you cant beat them, try to beat them at their own game. Or something along those lines.

[MrTwister]

A high risk "Serviceable role player" is seriously the last thing im looking for when drafting at #4. Im either looking for a guaranteed starter or a high risk high reward player. Serviceable role player? That describes Dudley and PJ Tucker.

I've been trying to wrap my head around why I'm against Bender at #4 and I think you've summed it up perfectly. I don't see star potential, he's not being projected as a star player and he's also a very high risk pick.

I just can't balance the risk and reward for taking Bender this high.

I mean when the guy on our board that has probably seen Bender the most (MrTwister) and watched the Euroleague the most, calls him a serviceable role player and high risk, that really says something. That scares me. I was actually starting to warm up to the idea of Bender (And REALLY thinking of the idea of a Bender/Noel pairing), but there are just way too many questions.

I thought this and pretty much all other boards i am reading are in consensus that this draft is role player heavy.Not even in top5 you have clear-cut players with star potential outside of Simmons and Ingram.But you do have deep role player player pool which is awesome for already good teams to snag a good player that fits their system and produce better than he would in some lottery team.I'm not Nostradamus but I can already feel the outrage of some fanbases next season after they see player picked later in draft succeeding and putting numbers compared to their own whos struggling

Maybe it was poor choice of words (probably could've said high-end role player) but its still kinda like that."Servicable" might look like a bit harsh, but main thing why i see him as role player is lack of scoring ability.Especially, inside the arc.Star players must be able to score and get buckets, Dragan cant do that yet.Not with current body which is improving btw (225lbs last time i checked) .His calling card in this draft will be versatility and room for development.Teams can develop him anyway they see fit, from stretch big to small-ball PF/C.Developing his scoring ability along with his body will probably make or break his potential.Reason why stretch bigs are so important in current NBA is spacing and ability to run the floor.Even stretch bigs who cant play much of defense find himself a nice role in NBA, but 2-way stretch PFs are rare and valuable for their teams, that one reason why Bender is projected as high, because of potential of being 2-way stretch 4.Just think what kind of player Telly would be if he was Paul Milsap level on defense, with green light on offense and being that kind of defender

[AtheJ415]

DraftExpress says "Defensive POTENTIAL" not "GREAT DEFENDER". Plus a lot of those videos of him "checking wings" are him staying like 5 feet in front of them - which is wide open in the NBA...

EDIT: Notice how all of those clips in his "Strengths" video re: defense are of drives. I'd be willing to wager he was defending players with no jump shot whatsoever, hell-bent on getting into the paint.

Exactly, because all 18 year olds defend that way. Or maybe he's just being smart and realizing his wingspan is like 7'5" and that he can bother their shot while still playing off of them to prevent the drive or an easy foul call. At this point, I think there's nothing that could possibly be shown that would have you say a positive thing about Bender. Oh, and when somebody discusses your defensive potential by showing you defending well now, that has meaning. You're being unnecessarily literal because it goes against your opinion of him.

No, everyone is saying he has skills he clearly doesn't. Just because you're 18 doesn't mean you get credit for skills you don't have. Notice I don't discredit his jumper looking fine, or that he can run the floor well - those are pretty apparent. His defense and passing I'm extremely skeptical of because there is no real good evidence - just projection or "trust me, he made two passes, he's a good passer".

There are just too many bigs in this draft purported to have athleticism to be serviceable perimeter defenders, length to be rim protectors, and nice enough looking jumpers to develop into 3-pt threats. Bender, Ellenson, Skal, Davis, Chriss, Maker, Zhou Qi, Zimmerman, and I wouldn't be surprised if Zubac, Zizic, Diallo, Damian Jones and Diamond Stone all start working on 3pt shots.

There are just so many raw bigs that'll succeed based on development, that I don't think it's worth drafting one at 4, when there isn't a clear pronouncement that he's a cut above them.

I'm personally on the Buddy bandwagon, with Murray and Dunn as acceptable choices as well. Brown is preferable to Bender, but I don't love him either.

My ideal draft involves us taking Buddy and Valentine at 4 and 13 and Zimmerman at 28. I personally see more in Zimmerman than I do in Bender. He runs the floor well, he rebounds the ball, his shooting needs some work, but he's a pretty good PnR man. I like low-risk, high-reward gambles late. In the lottery, give me guys who'll give me something. Hield can shoot the lights out, Valentine is a proven jack-of-all trades. Plus they seem competitive as hell and have improved each year they've played in college.

No. There's a litany of scouts who have been doing this for years and have watched him more than anyone claiming he has passing and defensive skills, and then showing video of those skills.

[MrMiyagi]

Exactly, because all 18 year olds defend that way. Or maybe he's just being smart and realizing his wingspan is like 7'5" and that he can bother their shot while still playing off of them to prevent the drive or an easy foul call. At this point, I think there's nothing that could possibly be shown that would have you say a positive thing about Bender. Oh, and when somebody discusses your defensive potential by showing you defending well now, that has meaning. You're being unnecessarily literal because it goes against your opinion of him.

No, everyone is saying he has skills he clearly doesn't. Just because you're 18 doesn't mean you get credit for skills you don't have. Notice I don't discredit his jumper looking fine, or that he can run the floor well - those are pretty apparent. His defense and passing I'm extremely skeptical of because there is no real good evidence - just projection or "trust me, he made two passes, he's a good passer".

There are just too many bigs in this draft purported to have athleticism to be serviceable perimeter defenders, length to be rim protectors, and nice enough looking jumpers to develop into 3-pt threats. Bender, Ellenson, Skal, Davis, Chriss, Maker, Zhou Qi, Zimmerman, and I wouldn't be surprised if Zubac, Zizic, Diallo, Damian Jones and Diamond Stone all start working on 3pt shots.

There are just so many raw bigs that'll succeed based on development, that I don't think it's worth drafting one at 4, when there isn't a clear pronouncement that he's a cut above them.

I'm personally on the Buddy bandwagon, with Murray and Dunn as acceptable choices as well. Brown is preferable to Bender, but I don't love him either.

My ideal draft involves us taking Buddy and Valentine at 4 and 13 and Zimmerman at 28. I personally see more in Zimmerman than I do in Bender. He runs the floor well, he rebounds the ball, his shooting needs some work, but he's a pretty good PnR man. I like low-risk, high-reward gambles late. In the lottery, give me guys who'll give me something. Hield can shoot the lights out, Valentine is a proven jack-of-all trades. Plus they seem competitive as hell and have improved each year they've played in college.

No. There's a litany of scouts who have been doing this for years and have watched him more than anyone claiming he has passing and defensive skills, and then showing video of those skills.

If he has those skills, then why wasn't he playing more in Israel? It's just not adding up.

[thamadkant]

My issue(s) with Bender

1. Nice height, legit 7 footer, not bad wingspan at 7'3, over 9'2 standing reach not bad at all. But 225 pounds.... he weighs as much as a rookie Small Forward. He has narrow shoulders, maybe 3 years away from being able to bang against aggressive strong PFs effectively.. IF he can put on 25-30 pounds of muscle in that span.


2. He can hit the 3pt shot... but that release is SLOW. He can get away with it against small 6'7 small forwards running towards him from the inside. But against the super athletic forwards, they will almost always get to him in time to bother that shot. You have to slot him at center and park him at the top of the key to free up the inside... sure thing, good move. But then you also negate his hustle and size advantage inside. And as mentioned earlier, he has a terribly slow release.

3. Boom or Bust potential... he either becomes a stud versatile front court player, a taller slower Andre Kirilenko, but shorter wingspan. Or he becomes Nikolos Tskitishvili part deux, or even Marciej Lampe, Zarko Cabarkapa.

Bender is basically getting a lot of hype because Porzingis turned out AWESOME. Scouts are picturing Porzingis's success when they look at Bender. When they should be looking at the historical data and evidence of tall skinny European players in the NBA.
Bender and Porzingis does not even play similarly... Porzingis is a freak of nature... 7'3 (with shoes), 7'6 wingspan... super athletic for his size and elite level for anyone over 7 feet. He is hard to stop because of his size and explosiveness.
Bender is a scrapper... finishes below the ring in most of his videos.

If they show Bender pulling explosive moves above the rim, I will change my projection of him.

Basically, in regards to mobile european PFs, between Dirk Nowitski and Porzingis, there was Gallinari and 2nd year Bargnani. The rest were out of the league within 5 years.


Would Bender be projected in the top 10 if Porzingis bombed last year?



As I said, if he is actually that darn good and Suns and Celtics have seen him work out in person with impressive showcase of athleticism and abilities.... then Celtics will pick him up anyways. The need a defensive capable PF...

[Bjorpa]

My issue(s) with Bender

1. Nice height, legit 7 footer, not bad wingspan at 7'3, over 9'2 standing reach not bad at all. But 225 pounds.... he weighs as much as a rookie Small Forward. He has narrow shoulders, maybe 3 years away from being able to bang against aggressive strong PFs effectively.. IF he can put on 25-30 pounds of muscle in that span.


2. He can hit the 3pt shot... but that release is SLOW. He can get away with it against small 6'7 small forwards running towards him from the inside. But against the super athletic forwards, they will almost always get to him in time to bother that shot. You have to slot him at center and park him at the top of the key to free up the inside... sure thing, good move. But then you also negate his hustle and size advantage inside. And as mentioned earlier, he has a terribly slow release.

3. Boom or Bust potential... he either becomes a stud versatile front court player, a taller slower Andre Kirilenko, but shorter wingspan. Or he becomes Nikolos Tskitishvili part deux, or even Marciej Lampe, Zarko Cabarkapa.

Bender is basically getting a lot of hype because Porzingis turned out AWESOME. Scouts are picturing Porzingis's success when they look at Bender. When they should be looking at the historical data and evidence of tall skinny European players in the NBA.
Bender and Porzingis does not even play similarly... Porzingis is a freak of nature... 7'3 (with shoes), 7'6 wingspan... super athletic for his size and elite level for anyone over 7 feet. He is hard to stop because of his size and explosiveness.
Bender is a scrapper... finishes below the ring in most of his videos.

If they show Bender pulling explosive moves above the rim, I will change my projection of him.

Basically, in regards to mobile european PFs, between Dirk Nowitski and Porzingis, there was Gallinari and 2nd year Bargnani. The rest were out of the league within 5 years.


Would Bender be projected in the top 10 if Porzingis bombed last year?



As I said, if he is actually that darn good and Suns and Celtics have seen him work out in person with impressive showcase of athleticism and abilities.... then Celtics will pick him up anyways. The need a defensive capable PF...

Bender had hype long before the 2015 draft, and was seen ås å bigger talent than Porzingis.

He's playing few minutes because he's In å professional league, not with players 18-23, like the college players you compare him with.

Sent fra min SM-G920F via Tapatalk

[batsmasher]

My perspective on drafting has changed dramatically over the last couple of years.

I don't really care what a player does or doesn't have because I know there are probably 2 or 3 players with a similar mix of "out of the box" talent and "potential". The only thing I care about at all is the mentality of the guy and if they have that star mentality. Lessons learned from Book. The kid had very little to show from his career at Kentucky. But he has the mentality of a star. The right mix of confidence and cockiness that comes from being great, with the right amount humbleness and general smarts to grow as a player.

I've barely looked at this class yet, but it's one of the reasons I like Furkan at 13. He's young, and I get that really good cocky/humble/learner vibe from him.

[bwgood77]

Pretty sure I read a report that they Love him. I would bet he is the pick at 3 if it is not traded.

Yeah, that's my fear, though it would obviously appease many people in these parts. Bender support seems split big time. Maybe moreso than I remember people split on a prospect. I know there was much difference in preferences on McLemore, Noel and Len a few years ago, but this year it seems crazy.

I think it is more you prefer Bender over everything and others here would rather have Okafor then Brown, but would be ok with Bender (except maybe 2 posters who don't like....trust Bender).

Brown shows more all around upside then Bender in his clips. Bender upside is provided by "scouts" more than his clips. I only see spot up threes from Bender, very good end to end speed, decent passing, and phenomenal lateral quickness on D when I watch him, playing against pretty much kids. I would like to see more shot creation from him, otherwise I think he is more of a Channing Frye with better perimeter D, and like some have said, boom or bust at 4.

As of now, I don't see Bender having the ball handed to him in the half-court at crunch time and the coach telling him to go to work. Okafor obviously, and Brown's high FT rate says the same. I like the bull in a china shop "weakness" of Brown. Better have the Westbrook mentality and have him bring it under control vs the Wes Johnson or dare I say Simmons mentality.

Are you saying Bender has Wes Johnson or Simmons mentality? That seems the exact opposite of what I've read.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, too bad he's not a good free throw shooter. At all.

[bwgood77]

My issue(s) with Bender

3. Boom or Bust potential... he either becomes a stud versatile front court player, a taller slower Andre Kirilenko, but shorter wingspan. Or he becomes Nikolos Tskitishvili part deux, or even Marciej Lampe, Zarko Cabarkapa.

Bender is basically getting a lot of hype because Porzingis turned out AWESOME. Scouts are picturing Porzingis's success when they look at Bender. When they should be looking at the historical data and evidence of tall skinny European players in the NBA.
Bender and Porzingis does not even play similarly... Porzingis is a freak of nature... 7'3 (with shoes), 7'6 wingspan... super athletic for his size and elite level for anyone over 7 feet. He is hard to stop because of his size and explosiveness.
Bender is a scrapper... finishes below the ring in most of his videos.

If they show Bender pulling explosive moves above the rim, I will change my projection of him.

Basically, in regards to mobile european PFs, between Dirk Nowitski and Porzingis, there was Gallinari and 2nd year Bargnani. The rest were out of the league within 5 years.


Would Bender be projected in the top 10 if Porzingis bombed last year?

Bender had hype long before the 2015 draft, and was seen ås å bigger talent than Porzingis.

He's playing few minutes because he's In å professional league, not with players 18-23, like the college players you compare him with.

Sent fra min SM-G920F via Tapatalk

Exactly. The first video I posted of him was in May of last year when he was projected to go 6th.

[bwgood77]

A high risk "Serviceable role player" is seriously the last thing im looking for when drafting at #4. Im either looking for a guaranteed starter or a high risk high reward player. Serviceable role player? That describes Dudley and PJ Tucker.

There are no guaranteed starters, particularly after the top 2. Unfortunately this draft is weak, particularly at the top after the top 2 and at our biggest position of need.

I thought you liked Brown btw. He is far from a guaranteed starter.

But Bender (I assume you are talking about him) that is two poster's assessment here while one of them added "with upside and could be amazing weapon if used and developed properly".

Lets say you do still want Brown. I'd just rather have a guy who may end up being a taller, skinnier version of Draymond Green (opinion of expert) than a guy who MIGHT end up being a guy like Michael Kidd Gilchrist if he reaches full potential.

C'mon BW. I am reading Jimmy Butler, J Rich, Kawhi, Iggy, Masburn, and a bigger Derozan.....never heard of Gilchrist and especially for a ceiling.

Brown doesn't look as half as bad as I heard (see Drummond pre-draft beat down), that's the main reason why I was totally against him, but then I continued to watch and I saw, step backs, spin moves, cross overs, hellacious dunks, shiftiness/change of direction, a non-broken shot, some pull-up J, and unbelievable driving to the hoop. He was a freshmen! If that guy reaches his potential, Kidd Gilchrist!?! Nah...

Where have you read that? Posters on realgm? I have read tons of articles on him, etc, and MKG is a good player, and was drafted like 3rd, so that's not a knock, but doesn't really excite me and not being able to shoot scares me. I think he COULD develop, as a handful of other guys have like people have mentioned.

I literally have not see ONE of those comparisons for Brown. I read more stuff like this...

I'm souring on Jaylen even more. Luwawu definitely should be ahead of him on anyone's board. Might not even consider him at #13 if he falls that far. This a damning verdict:

"Shooting 48% inside the arc, 29% from three, and 65% from the line for the Golden Bears, Brown didn't have the easiest time translating his game to the college ranks. With 51% of his shot attempts in the half court coming from the perimeter, the mechanical issues with Brown's jump shot became clear. Timing his release differently shot-to-shot whether he's pulling up off the bounce under pressure or shooting catch and shoot jumpers in space, Brown's mechanics are not particularly reliable at this stage. He casually fades away on some attempts unnecessarily, sometimes holding the ball longer than others at the top of his shot. His combination of mechanical issues resulted in the unimpressive 31% he shot from the perimeter overall.


As a slasher, Brown battled through bouts of inefficiency as well. Possessing a strong first step and impressive leaping ability off of one and two feet, Brown's fairly loose handle, lack of craftiness around the basket, and tendency to get tunnel vision and force shots into traffic led to his 45% shooting around the rim in the half court and top-100 leading per-40 minute pace adjusted turnover rate. While Cal's insistence on surrounding him with two to four non-shooters at all times didn't do him any favors, there's no doubt that his feel for the game is underdeveloped at this stage in his career, as evidenced by his poor -6.48 PPR, which is by far the worst passing metric among any non-big man in this draft"

Wow, it's crazy you posted this because I was reading a TSN article today about him and almost copied and pasted some very similar things....at first I thought you were posting from the same article....I think I'll go find it...here it is...% a little different because it was before end of year...though end of year he took a nosedive and played pretty badly...

Brown, to put it simply, has the foundational skills it takes to be in an NBA rotation but it seems he's always skated by on his athleticism, so he hasn’t had to polish the finer details of his game. This especially becomes problematic in half court situations, where the importance of a player’s raw athleticism is minimized.

Shooting 29.1 percent on threes and 64.8 percent on free throws, Brown will first need to improve as a shooter. He hasn’t displayed the ability to hit long-distance shots on the move or off the dribble, and even in standstill spot-up situations he has a low success rate.

Brown has sluggish footwork that gives defenders time to close out to contest his shots. NBA defenders will probably help hard off him, which could hinder his team’s spacing. His legs also don’t turn as he kicks his legs forward, which could cause tension in his neck and shoulders. Brown also misses with occasional air balls, which suggests there’s an issue with the release off his fingers.

However, Brown does have soft touch that he displays near the rim. So there’s hope he improves if his pre-draft trainers and NBA coaches correctly tinker with his mechanics.

But in the meantime, this major weakness is compounded by the fact Brown’s decision-making can be mind-boggling. His 51 assists to 81 turnovers is one of the worst ratios of all 2016 draft prospects, and his flaws go beyond the numbers.

Brown is a willing passer, but he’s more likely to barrel into a packed lane (like he does in the clip above) instead of making a pass within the flow of the offense. This is one of his primary sources of turnovers, since help defenders can easily poke away at the ball or Brown is forced to toss up an ugly shot.

He has flashes of shiftiness and the ability to change pace, but he tends to lose speed when he changes directions because of his upright ball-handling stance.

Brown has a bad habit of forcing up heavily contested mid-range jumpers...

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/nba-draft-2016-jaylen-brown-cal-scouting-report/u1a1j5atvpmr1o00ukxo7ve5c

[Mulhollanddrive]

longest page ever

[NavLDO]

I've been trying to wrap my head around why I'm against Bender at #4 and I think you've summed it up perfectly. I don't see star potential, he's not being projected as a star player and he's also a very high risk pick.

I just can't balance the risk and reward for taking Bender this high.

I mean when the guy on our board that has probably seen Bender the most (MrTwister) and watched the Euroleague the most, calls him a serviceable role player and high risk, that really says something. That scares me. I was actually starting to warm up to the idea of Bender (And REALLY thinking of the idea of a Bender/Noel pairing), but there are just way too many questions.

Truthfully, I would be ok with any of the other possibilities. Dunn, Murray, Brown, Hield. Chriss would be a reach imo at 4. But, I would be ok with any one of those. I atleast know what I am getting. Bender = Not so much.

bwgood is getting on me about my obsession with Dunn, and I'm not about to re-post all of his stats, etc. But why Dunn?? I just don't get why ANYONE would want to draft consistent mediocrity with the 4th overall; yeah, you know what you are going to get, but you can say that about a lot of prospects. How about Brice Johnson? He fills a position of need, is 3 mos. younger, has a higher career FT% (71% vs 69%), higher career TS% (.58 vs .52), career eFG% (.56 vs .47), Rebounds, PFs, so on and so forth.

If you want a PG, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's to make a point, why not take Wade Baldwin? Better length, athleticism (likely, but since Dunn refused to work out, we can't be sure, but Baldwin test outstandingly--14th No Step Vert, 12th Max Vert, 3rd Lane Agility, 7th 3/4 Split), better FT and 3PT shooter...by like...a lot. Better A/TO, PPR, Pts/Pos, fewer TOs. Identical Asst/Pos and TO/Pos. His EFF/40, PER, and WS/40 are slightly lower, but comparable. I'd rather take Baldwin than Dunn or Hield, at 4th overall, even if he better suited as a late-lotto guy, but that's where I'd place Dunn and Hield--late-lotto, and in last year's draft, I'd be surprised if either would've even been considered lotto picks...certainly not early ones. Murray scares me some, but I guess no more than Bender or Brown, but Bender and Brown fit our needs more.

So I get what you are saying--Chriss at 4th overall is ridiculously high, and do not see a scenario where he would be BPA at 4, but 'gun to my head'?? I'd take Chriss over Dunn or Hield, and likely Murray, but not Brown, even though I think Chriss compares favorably to Brown, and posted as much, but I guess I would trust Brown to 'not bust' more than I would Chriss.

[NavLDO]

I would like to post my top 5 at each position, and would love to see others. I know we all get (OK, maybe just me ) a bit 'passionate' about 'our guys' or our 'NOT guys', but anyway, I personally would like to see how you all rank these guys by position, so as we go forward in our discussions, we can see how each other ranks these guys. And while likely intuitive, just because I have a guy ranked 1st in a position, doesn't mean I want to take that player at 4th overall. This isn't about who we want at our slots, just basically a 'big board' by position. Also, I'm not going to rank 'tweeners' twice--picking one position that I feel would be their best suited in NBA.

PG
1. Denzel Valentine (though I recognize he might have issues defensively; this is based on offense and yes, I believe he could run the offense with his BBIQ, Court Vision, and amazing 7.25 PPR)
2. Wade Baldwin
3. Demetrius Jackson
4. Caris LeVert
5. Kris Dunn (yeah, yeah, 'hater'...I know. Take it up with my lawyer...)

SG
1. Jamal Murray
2. Buddy Hield
3. Malik Beasley
4. Furkan Korkmaz
5. Patrick McCaw

SF
1. Brandon Ingram
2. Jaylen Brown
3. DeAndre Bembry
4. Timothe Luwawu
5. Taurean Prince

PF
1. Ben Simmons
2. Dragan Bender
T3. Marquese Chriss
T3. Deyonta Davis
T5. Henry Ellenson
T5. Domantas Sabonis

C
1. Skal Labissiere
2. Jakob Poeltl
3. Ivica Zubac
4. Damian Jones (or PF, apparently, since we was listed as such on our visit)
5. Cheick Diallo (7' 4.5" Wingspan and 4.6 Blocks per 40 shouldn't b wasted on a PF)

[bwgood77]

I would like to post my top 5 at each position, and would love to see others. I know we all get (OK, maybe just me ) a bit 'passionate' about 'our guys' or our 'NOT guys', but anyway, I personally would like to see how you all rank these guys by position, so as we go forward in our discussions, we can see how each other ranks these guys. And while likely intuitive, just because I have a guy ranked 1st in a position, doesn't mean I want to take that player at 4th overall. This isn't about who we want at our slots, just basically a 'big board' by position. Also, I'm not going to rank 'tweeners' twice--picking one position that I feel would be their best suited in NBA.

PG
1. Denzel Valentine (though I recognize he might have issues defensively; this is based on offense and yes, I believe he could run the offense with his BBIQ, Court Vision, and amazing 7.25 PPR)
2. Wade Baldwin
3. Demetrius Jackson
4. Caris LeVert
5. Kris Dunn (yeah, yeah, 'hater'...I know. Take it up with my lawyer...)

SG
1. Jamal Murray
2. Buddy Hield
3. Malik Beasley
4. Furkan Korkmaz
5. Patrick McCaw

SF
1. Brandon Ingram
2. Jaylen Brown
3. DeAndre Bembry
4. Timothe Luwawu
5. Taurean Prince

PF
1. Ben Simmons
2. Dragan Bender
T3. Marquese Chriss
T3. Deyonta Davis
T5. Henry Ellenson
T5. Domantas Sabonis

C
1. Skal Labissiere
2. Jakob Poeltl
3. Ivica Zubac
4. Damian Jones (or PF, apparently, since we was listed as such on our visit)
5. Cheick Diallo (7' 4.5" Wingspan and 4.6 Blocks per 40 shouldn't b wasted on a PF)

I was considering doing a poll for various positions in a couple of new threads, just to see who is most popular among each position. It's pretty clear Brown is the most popular SF (even for me). It's funny, I've seen Valentine listed as a versatile 2 or 3, but never a 1 yet, though I think he could clearly play that position and of course defense is less important (though I guess he had a better defensive rating than Brown according to that chart someone posted).

But you should post your top 5 for each position in those threads.

[bwgood77]

I've been trying to wrap my head around why I'm against Bender at #4 and I think you've summed it up perfectly. I don't see star potential, he's not being projected as a star player and he's also a very high risk pick.

I just can't balance the risk and reward for taking Bender this high.

Who did you vote for? I haven't really seen anyone describe him as a role player until a couple of posters today. I think he's an extremely raw prospect with enormous upside. At least that seems to be consensus of draft experts.

I voted for Murray but I've cooled off him. I'm feeling Brown now.

You can change your vote at any time...I left it open for that.