The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[PaulieWal]

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

No they are not unless you consider the 2000 Lakers in the same class they would be virtually the same in a sense.

What? I am not even sure what you mean.

[PaulieWal]

Love is gonna be the difference maker in this series. If hes hot n cold like he was in the Eastern conference trip to the finals, Cavs are gonna get routed in 5. If theyre gonna rover him with Draymond and he isnt aggressive and just remains spotting up 3s and not containing on defense, he isnt gonna be playing 4th quarters and will get maligned.

I also have a weird feeling with how Jrs playing, his matchup with Klay is gonna be very interesting. Jrs been clearly better on defense this season than the last. It gives more flexibility with Shump and Lebron if he can at least do a decent job on Klay this time compared to last finals.

Love is gonna be the difference maker? How? I don't see that at all..

Who is he gonna guard in this series? Cavs best chance might be playing him reduced minutes.

[kayess]

Love is gonna be the difference maker in this series. If hes hot n cold like he was in the Eastern conference trip to the finals, Cavs are gonna get routed in 5. If theyre gonna rover him with Draymond and he isnt aggressive and just remains spotting up 3s and not containing on defense, he isnt gonna be playing 4th quarters and will get maligned.

I also have a weird feeling with how Jrs playing, his matchup with Klay is gonna be very interesting. Jrs been clearly better on defense this season than the last. It gives more flexibility with Shump and Lebron if he can at least do a decent job on Klay this time compared to last finals.

Love is gonna be the difference maker? How? I don't see that at all..

Who is he gonna guard in this series? Cavs best chance might be playing him reduced minutes.

He did do a good job of staying on DeRozan on the perimeter this series, so he can probably be hidden onto non-Steph/Klay perimeter players.

Trapping doesn't really work against Steph unless the athleticism, length, and activity's there - something I don't really expect out of Love/Irving - but if they can manage to do that Love has a shot at staying on the floor I guess?

Huge ifs - Lue should try some crazy **** like matchup going small or something, playing GS straight up won't work, so just increase the variance of your strategies.

I think Cleveland has to have, at minimum, 4 things that they haven't shown are sustainable working out:

1) Irving's decision making as the ball handler has to be more game 6 vs. Toronto
2) LeBron's jumper has to be at least respectable - game 6 against Toronto's probably the best we've seen it so far
3) Love/Irving's defense have to be good, especially on the PNR
4) Outside shooting has to continue - or at least experience only a slight dip

I can't see them winning if even one of those is below average. They wall off the paint, stall the offense by making Kyrie the main decision maker, can help on LeBron too much, or get blown up on defense.

If any three are good, and one's great is the only time I'd start thinking upset: Kyrie grows up as a playmaker, or LeBron finds his 2014 jumper and obliterates GS from all angles, or they're only breaking even against Love/Irving's D, or they can't stop LeBron inside and the 3 point shooting's absolutely blistering.

All the evidence points to a quick GS rout - but hey, that's why they play the games right (in b4 GS in 4 instead of 5)?

[Nbafanatic]

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

No they are not unless you consider the 2000 Lakers in the same class they would be virtually the same in a sense.

What? I am not even sure what you mean.

Let me try and guess his answer here: The 2000 Lakers were pushed to 7 games, to the brink of elimination by the Blazers, therefore, they can't be considered a top 10 all time team as well. Is that the reason?

[Nbafanatic]

I think the Warriors will win in 6, but the Cavs may have a chance. Love will be most likely ran off the floor, I agree, but Cleveland can field a very competent team with Lebron at the 4 surrounded by shooters. Am I crazy to think the Cavs should do the complete opposite than last year's tatic and try to push the pace, turning the games into a shootout and having Tristan Thompson as the x factor on the boards?

[Run DLC]

He has no chance to beat the Warriors. Last year, I had more confidence that he'd won it all despite not having Love and Kyrie, but his team were just a bit better defensively without those two guys. Now, I have a feeling that they'll get sweep.

I really hope that they can pull it off, but I don't like their chances. Kyrie will get buckets, but I just hope that he recognizes when to pass the ball on time and on target to a cutting player or open shooter. Love is the one who has to stand his ground and battle for rebounds, and use his strengths to post up more on in the offensive end instead of being just a 3-pt spot up shooter. He needs to average 20ppg and 10rpg in that series in order for the Cavs to stand a chance because those type of numbers are the things that would at least make up for his atrocious defense against the Warriors.

LeBron will just need to play the way he's been playing and step up on in the gas pedal when he has to. He needs to switch on defense and try to limit the head of the snake(Draymond Green).He just needs to worry about knocking down his open shots and FT attempts. Overall, there's not much that he'll be able to do without a rim protector.

[GrndZero]

LeBron is a transcendent once in a generation type talent. He is one of the few players I can think of you could literally put on a team of scrubs and instantly make them at least playoff contenders from the day he entered the league. There are very few players that have that game changing impact and the advanced stats pretty much prove this.

History has shown that regardless of individual talent you can't win it all without help and often perceptions of a players greatness is more often then not based on how successful their teams we're (ring counting) rather then how much they contributed to their teams overall success.

I think because LeBron has been so good for so long and especially earlier in his career carried some pretty average teams to levels of success they probably had no business achieving people have become complacent of how unique and valuable a talent he really is. By the time it's all said and done he should be at least top 5.

[JulesWinnfield]

I really think so much of the perception people have of this series is colored by that one awful blowout at the Q earlier this year. Outside of that Cleveland has been remarkably competitive against Golden State in the Lebron part 2 era. Handled them in the regular season last year at home, then gave them a tough 6 game series without Kyrie and love, they played 3 games at oracle in which they won once (game 2), lost another in OT (game 1) and then lost game 5 in which they did at least hold a 2nd half lead. Then on Christmas this season they lose by 5 at golden state playing a terrific game defensively. There is really zero pointing to a complete mismatch here outside of the last time they met where golden state just ran them off the floor. That game is the outlier.

Cleveland may or may not win this series but this sweep talk or 5 game talk is a bit silly and there is nothing to suggest it. Nothing whatsoever based on the recent history of these two teams

[JulesWinnfield]

For all the talk about Cleveland has no chance to guard golden state with Kyrie and love and are somehow better with that ridiculous team they threw out in last years finals even with its offensive limitations....... This new big 3 has played the Warriors 3 times with everyone in the lineup and twice the job they did on them defensively was phenomenal. Held them to 89 pts and 41% shooting on Christmas. Held them under 100 on 42% shooting in the one regular season matchup in 2015.

The Warriors are going to have their hands full guarding the team who is posting a 120 rating this postseason. A team shooting it from deep better than even they are. This series will absolutely be competitive

[Run DLC]

For all the talk about Cleveland has no chance to guard golden state with Kyrie and love and are somehow better with that ridiculous team they threw out in last years finals even with its offensive limitations....... This new big 3 has played the Warriors 3 times with everyone in the lineup and twice the job they did on them defensively was phenomenal. Held them to 89 pts and 41% shooting on Christmas. Held them under 100 on 42% shooting in the one regular season matchup in 2015.

The Warriors are going to have their hands full guarding the team who is posting a 120 rating this postseason. A team shooting it from deep better than even they are. This series will absolutely be competitive

I would want nothing more than to see LeBron win his third ring and Finals MVP, but I just have a feeling that his team's offense will regress against the warriors. I expect them to miss a lot of open shots and that's going to put pressure on LeBron and Kyrie to play Iso-ball and play right into the Warriors hands.The only way that I can see them having a chance are, if both, Thompson and Love can hold their grounds and get as many second chance opportunities as they can, Jr Smith stays hot throughout the series, Kyrie becomes more efficient at setting easy shots around the rim for LeBron with his dribble penetration, and LeBron goes in beast mode. I think the LeBron in beast mode and Jr Smith staying hot are two very possible scenarios, but I highly doubt that Love and Thompson will be able to hold their own against Green and Bogut. Kyrie is who he is. He has god-like handles, but he doesn't understand that he can use his handle to scrambled opposing teams defense while he creates easier and less contested shots for his teammates with his dribble penetration. That's why Wade will always be LeBron's best Robin. Wade has a high B-ball IQ and just like LeBron, he knew when to attack to get his own shots and when to attack and create an easier shot for someone else.

[BasketballFan7]

Cavs gon' win it.

[Tinseltown]

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

This is probably the worst season in a long time for an MJ fan. If LeBron wins the title this year, he is unquestionably ahead of where Jordan was at 31 in terms of accomplishments. And if Curry wins people are going to remember the 96 Bulls the same way they remember the 86 Celtics or the 72 Lakers. Just a great team from a bygone era that didn't set any lasting records.

[BasketballFan7]

Vegas odds are about on par with the 2013 Heat / Spurs, the Cavs having the Spurs underdog odds. Spurs were actually bigger underdogs. The last finals with a heavier favorite than the 2013 heat was the 2009 LA / Orlando series, and before that SAS / CLE and LAL / DET.

Fwiw, the lakers were -550 against the Pistons and lost in 5. 2013 heat were -240 and won in 7 obviously. GS is -210.

[JulesWinnfield]

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

This is probably the worst season in a long time for an MJ fan. If LeBron wins the title this year, he is unquestionably ahead of where Jordan was at 31 in terms of accomplishments. And if Curry wins people are going to remember the 96 Bulls the same way they remember the 86 Celtics or the 72 Lakers. Just a great team from a bygone era that didn't set any lasting records.

Yea it's a rough spot. I live in NY and am a NY Giant fan, this reminds me of the position many of my Jet fan friends/family were in during the Giants/Patriot Super Bowls. There is no desireable outcome either way. Of course the dynamic is a bit different with this example but the spirit is the same. I also feel that way personally about this presidential cycle (that's as far as I'll go with that)

[Tinseltown]

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

This is probably the worst season in a long time for an MJ fan. If LeBron wins the title this year, he is unquestionably ahead of where Jordan was at 31 in terms of accomplishments. And if Curry wins people are going to remember the 96 Bulls the same way they remember the 86 Celtics or the 72 Lakers. Just a great team from a bygone era that didn't set any lasting records.

Yea it's a rough spot. I live in NY and am a NY Giant fan, this reminds me of the position many of my Jet fan friends/family were in during the Giants/Patriot Super Bowls. There is no desireable outcome either way. Of course the dynamic is a bit different with this example but the spirit is the same. I also feel that way personally about this presidential cycle (that's as far as I'll go with that)

Oh I love Hillary Clinton, LeBron James, and Steph Curry so it's tough for me to relate. I am incredibly excited right now for the visit to the white house next year though.

[kabstah]

I really think so much of the perception people have of this series is colored by that one awful blowout at the Q earlier this year. Outside of that Cleveland has been remarkably competitive against Golden State in the Lebron part 2 era. Handled them in the regular season last year at home, then gave them a tough 6 game series without Kyrie and love, they played 3 games at oracle in which they won once (game 2), lost another in OT (game 1) and then lost game 5 in which they did at least hold a 2nd half lead. Then on Christmas this season they lose by 5 at golden state playing a terrific game defensively. There is really zero pointing to a complete mismatch here outside of the last time they met where golden state just ran them off the floor. That game is the outlier.

Cleveland may or may not win this series but this sweep talk or 5 game talk is a bit silly and there is nothing to suggest it. Nothing whatsoever based on the recent history of these two teams

About the Finals last year, Cleveland's team defense stopped being effective as soon as GSW benched Bogut. Unless they start playing Bogut big minutes again this year (and they have no reason to), I think Games 4-6 of last year's Finals will be more indicative than Games 1-6 or Games 1-3.

That is to say if Cleveland is to win, they'll have to outgun GSW rather than stop them on defense. It's a tall order but not impossible. I would start by having whoever Curry guards as the PnR ball handler, then have LeBron as the screen and roll man.

[Ancalagon]

there is no one really deserve of Top 3 GOAT since MJ retired than Lebron.

You might disagree but Duncan absolutely is in the conversation at least and potentially Shaq as well. And heck KG has supporters that high as well.

Duncan has a great case for Top 3 and is very close. Shaq and KG have supporters- Shaq isn't quite in the conversation for me, and KG definitely isn't. But I like the argument.

[JulesWinnfield]

This is probably the worst season in a long time for an MJ fan. If LeBron wins the title this year, he is unquestionably ahead of where Jordan was at 31 in terms of accomplishments. And if Curry wins people are going to remember the 96 Bulls the same way they remember the 86 Celtics or the 72 Lakers. Just a great team from a bygone era that didn't set any lasting records.

Yea it's a rough spot. I live in NY and am a NY Giant fan, this reminds me of the position many of my Jet fan friends/family were in during the Giants/Patriot Super Bowls. There is no desireable outcome either way. Of course the dynamic is a bit different with this example but the spirit is the same. I also feel that way personally about this presidential cycle (that's as far as I'll go with that)

Oh I love Hillary Clinton, LeBron James, and Steph Curry so it's tough for me to relate. I am incredibly excited right now for the visit to the white house next year though.

Not that you or anyone cares about my rooting interest but just to be clear I'm absolutely rooting for the Cavs. Didn't mean to imply I was personally one of those people who were in the predicament we were discussing, just mentioning it must be a rough spot for them as you stated

[PaulieWal]

Yea it's a rough spot. I live in NY and am a NY Giant fan, this reminds me of the position many of my Jet fan friends/family were in during the Giants/Patriot Super Bowls. There is no desireable outcome either way. Of course the dynamic is a bit different with this example but the spirit is the same. I also feel that way personally about this presidential cycle (that's as far as I'll go with that)

Oh I love Hillary Clinton, LeBron James, and Steph Curry so it's tough for me to relate. I am incredibly excited right now for the visit to the white house next year though.

Not that you or anyone cares about my rooting interest but just to be clear I'm absolutely rooting for the Cavs. Didn't mean to imply I was personally one of those people who were in the predicament we were discussing, just mentioning it must be a rough spot for them as you stated

Oh...I thought you were rooting for Curry to win it all. I remember you saying he's your absolutely new favorite player during the season no? Sorry if I am wrong on that...

For me personally I don't care either way. I expect GSW in 5-6 but don't really care either way who wins. I'll just hope for some good, enjoyable ball.

[HeartBreakKid]

Shaq is pretty easily a top 3 player for me, if he held himself to a more respectable standard as opposed to being a goof ball, prima dona and often times a traitor (from perspective of Orlando and even LA fans), then I think his career would be looked at with more prestige then it currently does. For a player of Shaq's caliber, some people kinda give you a funny look when you call him one of the goats before they remember what he did. People just use the word catch phrase dominant instead of saying great for some reason when describing him.