Team Canada Basketball Thread

[UcanUwill]

Hanlan has dropped from Zalgiris rotation completely, wasn't even on active 12 men roster in todays game.

He hasn't really played all month. According to a Zalgiris fan on another board when asked how Hanlan was doing.

Hanlan played SG more, had really good 1st part of the season, but then our main PG Kalnietis left, coaches changed, Hanlan was tried at PG, and totally lost his rhythm there. He looked really confused at PG, playin' as SG he was shooting bravely, taking responsibility, but at PG he couldn't make up his mind lot of times, when to shoot, when to pass the ball, at times bein' open he hesitated to shoot. Overall lost his confidence and now at times isn't even registered for the games

He has had a tough year. He joined the only Euroleague team of all our Canadians in Europe but it has been a rough go.

Khem Birch and Pangos started with a little lower level teams and have really shined. Khem is being chased hard by many Euroleague teams for next year. Rumors some teams are interested in Pangos too.

Ejim has done really well since going back to Italy last month. Umana Venezia caught fire once he joined and are now in the semifinal for the Italian Series A league after being a ~.500 team during regular season.

Pangos still alive in the ACB quarterfinals this week vs Laboral Kutxa (5 vs 4 seed).

Most of that comment is true, but I wouldn't say he was very good at the beginning. He was adequate at his best, big disappointment considering he was one of the bigger signings and was supposed to replace James Anderson.

[Mirotic12]

Hanlan has dropped from Zalgiris rotation completely, wasn't even on active 12 men roster in todays game.

He hasn't really played all month. According to a Zalgiris fan on another board when asked how Hanlan was doing.

Hanlan played SG more, had really good 1st part of the season, but then our main PG Kalnietis left, coaches changed, Hanlan was tried at PG, and totally lost his rhythm there. He looked really confused at PG, playin' as SG he was shooting bravely, taking responsibility, but at PG he couldn't make up his mind lot of times, when to shoot, when to pass the ball, at times bein' open he hesitated to shoot. Overall lost his confidence and now at times isn't even registered for the games

He has had a tough year. He joined the only Euroleague team of all our Canadians in Europe but it has been a rough go.

Khem Birch and Pangos started with a little lower level teams and have really shined. Khem is being chased hard by many Euroleague teams for next year. Rumors some teams are interested in Pangos too.

Ejim has done really well since going back to Italy last month. Umana Venezia caught fire once he joined and are now in the semifinal for the Italian Series A league after being a ~.500 team during regular season.

Pangos still alive in the ACB quarterfinals this week vs Laboral Kutxa (5 vs 4 seed).

I don't recall seeing Hanlan play as a PG at all after Kalniettis left. He was still playing at SG, and they signed a new PG to replace Kalnietis. I'm not sure what that comment was trying to say, because it makes no sense.

As for Birch, I have heard only that he is one of several candidates for Olympiacos this summer. I have not heard that any other Euroleague teams are after him right now, and in the case of Olympiacos, he is listed as being one of 5 candidates for their 2nd center.

His stock was higher before the Turkish playoffs, but after them, his stock dropped, because he did not play well against Fenerbache. So he might be in Euroleague next season, but nothing is for sure on that. Olympiacos' main target for a C on the free agent market is said to be Ioannis Bourousis. If he goes to the NBA instead (which he already said he will try to do so), then their next target after that for a free agent C, if they can't get Bourousis, is said to Stephane Lasme. Then, if they can'
t get either Bourousis or Lasme, that is where Bitch's name has come up, along with a couple of other names. I have not seen his name being attached to the interest of any other Euroleague teams yet.

That does not mean he might not end up in Euroleague next year, he might. Because teams will end up as always needing a C. But as of right now, I don't think teams are at this moment actively pursuing him. So it's no garantee he will be in Euroleague next season, just that he might be.

Most of that comment is true, but I wouldn't say he was very good at the beginning. He was adequate at his best, big disappointment considering he was one of the bigger signings and was supposed to replace James Anderson.

It's extremely hard for an NCAA player to do anything in Euroleague as a rookie pro player. I honestly can't remember when an NCAA rookie ever was good in Euroleague. He had no chance to be as good as James Anderson was in the same team.

So I'm not sure if Hanlan's season in Zalgiris means anything or not. He was never going to be good there this season. Because NCAA rookies never do well with Euroleague teams. In fact, it's extremely rare for any to even be on a Euroleague team. With that being said, he needs to move to a smaller club or lower league, and work his way back up, if he wants a good Euroleague career. He clearly was not ready for Euroleague.

As for James Anderson, some reports said he agreed with Fenerbahce already. He's good for a team like Zalgiris, but I don't think he really has the level for a team like Fener, that is considering anything but a championship as a failure.

[mojo13]

Helpful insight as always. I was surprised to see Hanlan sign with Zalgiris this past summer. I thought he would start at a lower level like Pangos, Birch, Ejim, Heslip etc. If guys like Rautins, English, K. Joseph and whoever else that has had a cup of coffee in the NBA are not good enough for the EL it would be quite the surprising to see Hanlan succeed as a rookie.

Supposedly Galatasaray is publicly interested in Khem Birch - and that is sort of a EL team right? Or will be next year.

[Mirotic12]

Supposedly Galatasaray is publicly interested in Khem Birch - and that is sort of a EL team right? Or will be next year.

Yeah. Galatasary won the Eurocup this season. So they will be in the Euroleague next year. However, Euroleague has specific rules to play in Euroleague financially. Teams can't have any debts and they can't have any open FIBA VAT court cases (where they are in court over payment disputes to players, coaches, agents).

Galatasary supposedly has like €3-4 million euros in debt, according to major sports media in Europe. Although the club denies that. So who knows if they will be allowed to play in the Euroleague or not, since those debts would block them from qualifying, and they could not sign any new players anyway, as FIBA automatically bans clubs in Europe from signing new players if they have debts.

If they settled their financial issues (which is possibly since they could get large sponsors), then Birch would probably make sense for them. Especially if some other team signed Lasme away from them. This season they started with Lasme and Joey Dorsey as their two main centers, until Dorsey left in then middle of the season. Birch is a similar type of style small ball athletic center like Lasme and Dorsey, so that would make sense if they wanted to keep the same continuity.

[Double Helix]

Miro and Mojo: Are you 2 from outside North America? How many leagues, including the NBA do you follow and what got you into those other leagues?

[TheFutureMM]

Just took a look at the date and training camp is officially less than two weeks away and the NBA Finals have not even started.

I have always been under the impression that Thompson would be a for sure commitment this summer but that doesn't give him a lot of time off. Hopefully he rested up enough in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

[mojo13]

Miro and Mojo: Are you 2 from outside North America? How many leagues, including the NBA do you follow and what got you into those other leagues?

I am in the US. I just follow our Canadian boys the best I can on the Internet and Twitter some times. Good times translating Turkish tweets to see how Khem Birch is playing.

Mirotic has set me straight a few times on the European leagues. It is tough to know the difference between EuroLeague, Eurocup, FIba European Cup, the relative quality of the domestic leagues etc, etc.

Since my beloved Sonics were stolen, I have no real emotional connection to any NBA teams or college for that matter. I bounce from NCAA team to team based on their Canadian content. Oregon would be a team I watch closely right now. Gonzaga historically too.
The only true emotional connection is watching the Canadian kids play so I am geeked about the national team and the development of the non NBA kids that are on the prerifery of the NBA or could help the national team. Pangos, Birch, Ejim, Heslip, Hanlan, Scrubb, Rautins, wiltjer, Brooks, Murray, Bachynski etc.

If the Twolves draft Murray I am all in on Minneapolis.

[frumble]

Still no news on Canada's team for the world U17s? (other than open tryout being this weekend).

USA basketball announced their training camp list nearly two weeks ago:

http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2016/05/mu17-training-camp-athletes.aspx

They also announced their training camp list for the FIBA Americas U18s:

http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2016/05/mu18-training-camp-athletes.aspx

[mojo13]

AAU / Club ball is likely to blame.

Most other countries have their teams selected already...many have been together for many weeks and even playing warm-up tournaments. I suppose the age group national teams are the best training and competition kids in other countries get for the summer so why not go all in. There is an argument that the AAU leagues like the EYBL is better competition than FIBA let alone the importance with recruiting. I assume a 17 year old in North America should be very focused on their AAU team and the Cadet team is sort of a bonus. USA Basketball has a little more clout and prestige so I can see players dropping everything when Team USA comes calling. With Canada we are so reliant on a few players...we probably need to be more accommodating to their schedules. I think half the team may be CIA Bounce anyways....so they sort have been training together already.

Serious question - could any national u17 FIBA team (besides the USA) have a serious shot at winning the EYBL Peach Jam?
Maybe under FIBA rules, with better team play, and better coaching perhaps they could...but it is questionable.

[frumble]

AAU / Club ball is likely to blame.

Most other countries have their teams selected already...many have been together for many weeks and even playing warm-up tournaments. I suppose the age group national teams are the best training and competition kids in other countries get for the summer so why not go all in. There is an argument that the AAU leagues like the EYBL is better competition than FIBA let alone the importance with recruiting. I assume a 17 year old in North America should be very focused on their AAU team and the Cadet team is sort of a bonus. USA Basketball has a little more clout and prestige so I can see players dropping everything when Team USA comes calling. With Canada we are so reliant on a few players...we probably need to be more accommodating to their schedules. I think half the team may be CIA Bounce anyways....so they sort have been training together already.

Serious question - could any national u17 FIBA team (besides the USA) have a serious shot at winning the EYBL Peach Jam?
Maybe under FIBA rules, with better team play, and better coaching perhaps they could...but it is questionable.

AAU commitments no doubt complicate matters. The good news is that there is no direct scheduling conflict. The Nike EYBL 17U circuit just wrapped up its Session 4, and the next event is the championship (Peach Jam) from July 6-10.

The FIBA U17s are June 23 to July 3, so players would be back from Spain in time for Peach Jam.

FWIW, the FIBA site has a list of 24 players on Canada's roster.

http://www.fiba.com/world/u17/2016/Canada#|tab=roster

Not sure if Canada submitted these names figuring they were the most likely guys to make the official tryout camp (to be held after the open tryouts this week). It includes the 12 who made the FIBA Americas U16 team last summer, along with some who were cuts last summer and a few new names.

In any case, I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

[mojo13]

Turkey shortlisted 20 players in preliminary roster, no Ilyasova in it (FA). Arslan and Asik return to NT. No Kanter as expected (political issues).

Birkan Batuk (Anadolu Efes)
Cedi Osman (Anadolu Efes)
Doğuş Balbay (Anadolu Efes)
Furkan Korkmaz (Anadolu Efes)
Tolga Geçim (Banvit)
Can Maxim Mutaf (Banvit)
Ender Arslan (Darussafaka Dogus)
Metin Turen (Darussafaka Dogus)
Semih Erden (Darussafaka Dogus)
Mehmet Yağmur (Darussafaka Doguş)
Oguz Savaş (Darussafaka Doğuş)
Ali Muhammed (Fenerbahçe)
Melih Mahmutoglu (Fenerbahçe)
Barıs Hersek (Fenerbahçe)
Huseyin Goksenin Koksal (Galatasaray Odeabank)
Sinan Guler (Galatasaray Odeabank)
J. Metecan Birsen (Istanbul BBSK)
Kenan Sipahi (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Samet Geyik (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Omer Faruk Asık (New Orleans Pelicans)


Turkish fans seem disappointed. Unimaginative roster ignoring some young up an comers and risk/reward types. Safe, boring, uncompetetive roster with political choices all over it.. They think we and France will rip apart their PFs. Hopefully this is true and good news for Canada.

[UcanUwill]

Turkey shortlisted 20 players in preliminary roster, no Ilyasova in it (FA). Arslan and Asik return to NT. No Kanter as expected (political issues).

Birkan Batuk (Anadolu Efes)
Cedi Osman (Anadolu Efes)
Doğuş Balbay (Anadolu Efes)
Furkan Korkmaz (Anadolu Efes)
Tolga Geçim (Banvit)
Can Maxim Mutaf (Banvit)
Ender Arslan (Darussafaka Dogus)
Metin Turen (Darussafaka Dogus)
Semih Erden (Darussafaka Dogus)
Mehmet Yağmur (Darussafaka Doguş)
Oguz Savaş (Darussafaka Doğuş)
Ali Muhammed (Fenerbahçe)
Melih Mahmutoglu (Fenerbahçe)
Barıs Hersek (Fenerbahçe)
Huseyin Goksenin Koksal (Galatasaray Odeabank)
Sinan Guler (Galatasaray Odeabank)
J. Metecan Birsen (Istanbul BBSK)
Kenan Sipahi (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Samet Geyik (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Omer Faruk Asık (New Orleans Pelicans)


Turkish fans seem disappointed. Unimaginative roster ignoring some young up an comers and risk/reward types. Safe, boring, uncompetetive roster with political choices all over it.. They think we and France will rip apart their PFs. Hopefully this is true and good news for Canada.

Very underwhelming roster.

[Mirotic12]

Turkey shortlisted 20 players in preliminary roster, no Ilyasova in it (FA). Arslan and Asik return to NT. No Kanter as expected (political issues).

Birkan Batuk (Anadolu Efes)
Cedi Osman (Anadolu Efes)
Doğuş Balbay (Anadolu Efes)
Furkan Korkmaz (Anadolu Efes)
Tolga Geçim (Banvit)
Can Maxim Mutaf (Banvit)
Ender Arslan (Darussafaka Dogus)
Metin Turen (Darussafaka Dogus)
Semih Erden (Darussafaka Dogus)
Mehmet Yağmur (Darussafaka Doguş)
Oguz Savaş (Darussafaka Doğuş)
Ali Muhammed (Fenerbahçe)
Melih Mahmutoglu (Fenerbahçe)
Barıs Hersek (Fenerbahçe)
Huseyin Goksenin Koksal (Galatasaray Odeabank)
Sinan Guler (Galatasaray Odeabank)
J. Metecan Birsen (Istanbul BBSK)
Kenan Sipahi (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Samet Geyik (Pınar Karşıyaka)
Omer Faruk Asık (New Orleans Pelicans)


Turkish fans seem disappointed. Unimaginative roster ignoring some young up an comers and risk/reward types. Safe, boring, uncompetetive roster with political choices all over it.. They think we and France will rip apart their PFs. Hopefully this is true and good news for Canada.

Very underwhelming roster.

Most Turkish basketball fans are very, very new to the game of basketball. New, as in like within the last 4-5 years. Before that, basketball was a real niche sport in Turkey. Turkish basketball fans are probably the least knowledgeable, with the lowest basketball IQ, of any basketball fans in Europe. So don't put too much stock into what they say.

That's not a medal winning team or anything, but it's still an experienced team and a deep team. It has size, length, athleticism, physicality, good defense, decent ball handlers, and good 3 point shooters.

That Turkish team is far better than the teams Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and so forth had at the 2015 FIBA Americas. It does not mean they would beat teams like Canada or France, but I am just putting things in perspective. If 2015 Venezuela and Argentina can beat Canada, and 2015 Mexico could almost beat them, then that Turkish team could certainly do so also.

[mojo13]

I am certainly not considering Turkey a pushover...and I try to be realistic about Canada's chances. I respect the inherent weakness of North American team trying to adjust to FIBA ball. Canada is going to have a meaningfully weaker roster than last summer as well...however the actual players may be better as they have aged and improved.

I sometimes think you tend to overestimate the quality of European players and teams to the detriment of North and South American teams. Mexico is better than given credit. PR is on a downswing the last few years (players, coaching and organization), but has a strong history and a meaningful talent pool to draw from. DR has a couple superstars if they ever play. Brazil with a full compliment of players is on par with most of the best European teams. Argentina is certainly on a downswing, but has some good young guys coming up and some old dogs that can still play in guys like Scola, Nacioni and Prigioni.

I agree the FIBA America's teams last summer were pretty weak for a variety of reasons. But I doubt Turkey would have easily beaten Mexico or Argentina. Turkey has been pretty weak for a few years - they had two wins in Eurobasket last year - a close win over Germany and an overtime wine versus Iceland!

I watched every FIBA Americas game last summer and it was painfully obvious Canada had the most talent and was by far the best team there. After two warm-up wins against Argentina they got surprised in the first game by the wily Argentinians, then proceeded to win 7 straight games by 20-30 points. They got caught by VEN...it happens. A very young team, maybe overconfident, maybe rattled with two starters hospitalized prior to the game, maybe outcoached...but yes they lost. So they can easily lose to Turkey, or Senegal or the Philippines...

You are right - no need to underestimate Turkey - I for one, think our chances of qualifying are low. But tough to tell until we see all teams full rosters. Call me crazy but the Philippines might even be my darkhorse as I am a huge believer in home court advantage. I have been to Manila - I won;t be surprised of a couple French or Canadian starters go down with "food poisoning" before a knockout game just like in Mexico City.

[mojo13]

Rumors floating that Stauskas may not play. That really hurts too.

Can't get made at the guy...his NBA career is hanging by a thread. If he doesn't bulk himself up enough to play with the big boys soon, his NBA career will be over.

CoJo to the two and Ennis the 1? C'mon Murray! Play dammit!

[Mirotic12]

I am certainly not considering Turkey a pushover...and I try to be realistic about Canada's chances. I respect the inherent weakness of North American team trying to adjust to FIBA ball. Canada is going to have a meaningfully weaker roster than last summer as well...however the actual players may be better as they have aged and improved.

I sometimes think you tend to overestimate the quality of European players and teams to the detriment of North and South American teams. Mexico is better than given credit. PR is on a downswing the last few years (players, coaching and organization), but has a strong history and a meaningful talent pool to draw from. DR has a couple superstars if they ever play. Brazil with a full compliment of players is on par with most of the best European teams. Argentina is certainly on a downswing, but has some good young guys coming up and some old dogs that can still play in guys like Scola, Nacioni and Prigioni.

I agree the FIBA America's teams last summer were pretty weak for a variety of reasons. But I doubt Turkey would have easily beaten Mexico or Argentina. Turkey has been pretty weak for a few years - they had two wins in Eurobasket last year - a close win over Germany and an overtime wine versus Iceland!

I watched every FIBA Americas game last summer and it was painfully obvious Canada had the most talent and was by far the best team there. After two warm-up wins against Argentina they got surprised in the first game by the wily Argentinians, then proceeded to win 7 straight games by 20-30 points. They got caught by VEN...it happens. A very young team, maybe overconfident, maybe rattled with two starters hospitalized prior to the game, maybe outcoached...but yes they lost. So they can easily lose to Turkey, or Senegal or the Philippines...

You are right - no need to underestimate Turkey - I for one, think our chances of qualifying are low. But tough to tell until we see all teams full rosters. Call me crazy but the Philippines might even be my darkhorse as I am a huge believer in home court advantage. I have been to Manila - I won;t be surprised of a couple French or Canadian starters go down with "food poisoning" before a knockout game just like in Mexico City.

I don't underestimate teams from FIBA Americas, or overrate European teams compared to them. If anything, I am extremely, by many leaps and bounds, way overly generous to the FIBA Americas teams.

The truth is that almost all of the best FIBA Americas players (except USA, Brazil, Argentina, Canada) are guys that play in Latin America, or leagues like Israel or Belgium, or whatever.

For example, other than Ayon, Mexico does not have a single player that is at at Euroleague level quality. Some of the big European national teams have 12 guys at Euroleague level, and there top players are also a lot better than Ayon is. A team like Venezuela, that won the FIBA Americas, is a roster loaded with guys that would be lucky to get playing time in the French League.

Argentina's absolute best players are either super old and completely washed up, or they are guys that play in Latin America, with the exception being their two leaders (Laproovittola and Campazzo), which are both certianly very good players, but even they are not in the top 20-30 point guards in Europe.

To keep it real, I actually give FIBA Americas way more credit than it deserves. Mexico has been probably the most consistent team there in recent years, and I honestly doubt if they could even win a single game at EuroBasket. That's just flat out honestly. And I watch all of EuroBasket games, Americas games, and I watch all of these players from Americas team that used to be, and/or are now playing in Europe.

Brazil is definitely the best team after USA, along with Canada. However, they are nowhere near being on par with the best European teams. They are more or less at the level of teams like Russia and Turkey, which might not even be in the best 10 European national teams.

Teams like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic are even weaker than European teams like Georgia and Macedonia, and European teams like Latvia and Belgium are way better than they are. You mention Iceland - well, I honestly think Iceland would beat a team like Puerto Rico rather easily.

The level of EuroBasket is about 5 tiers above Americas.

[Undefeated]

There's an open tryout for both CMNT/CWNT and JMNT/JWNT starting this weekend which is why no one has been selected yet. But for those wondering, they already have a team in mind with players in the TAS.

[mojo13]

Argentina's absolute best players are either super old and completely washed up, or they are guys that play in Latin America, with the exception being their two leaders (Laproovittola and Campazzo), which are both certianly very good players, but even they are not in the top 20-30 point guards in Europe.

No doubt Argentina's best years are well behind them, but Scola and Nocioni still have a little left in them. However I don't see Argentina getting much better anytime soon. Canada is starting to exert dominance over Argentina at the youth levels.

Brazil is definitely the best team after USA, along with Canada. However, they are nowhere near being on par with the best European teams. They are more or less at the level of teams like Russia and Turkey, which might not even be in the best 10 European national teams.

Brazil beat both France and Serbia in pool play at the last World Championship. With most of their best players they are a good team. Much better than Turkey and Russia. I put them a tier below the top Euro teams (France, Serbia, Spain).

Teams like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic are even weaker than European teams like Georgia and Macedonia, and European teams like Latvia and Belgium are way better than they are. You mention Iceland - well, I honestly think Iceland would beat a team like Puerto Rico rather easily.

PR and DR are not weaker than those teams if they have their best players playing. DR with Karl Anthony Towns and Al Horford are likely better than all those teams. DR had neither in the 2014 WC and made the play offs. PR is a weird country to gauge because of its ties with the U.S. - so many born and raised US basketballers have PR roots. A team with Napier, Harkless, Arroyo, Barrera, Holland, Balkman should beat the teams you mention. Carmelo Anthony's qualifies a Puerto Rican...too bad he never played for them. PR has problems with their federation and coaching for the last couple years - that is much to blame for their poor performance over the last few major tournaments. Historically PR has a strong tradition with many top 8 finishes in the World Cup and Olympics through the 90s and 2000s.

Mexico and Venezuela are the lesser powers that I can not defend much - they seem to currently have good coaching and systems in place that helps them perform beyond what their talent would indicate.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I think you're missing a huge part of the equation if you solely look at the calibre of player on each team.

Coaching, chemistry and continuity can make up for talent disparity. There is no doubt that these South American basketball leagues are far below the calibre of the elite European leagues, but having a huge cluster of your players playing in your home country allows for them to play and train together much more often.

Canada had the most talented roster on paper, but they also had like 2 weeks of preparation time and had precious little cohesiveness. It showed when they went up against some more experienced team in pressure situations.

You see it in international events of every major sport (soccer, hockey, basketball, etc.) teams that punch way above their weight because while their pool of players may be smaller and less talented, they have the advantage of being able to train and play together outside of the infrequent stretches of international events.

[pantalones]

I am certainly not considering Turkey a pushover...and I try to be realistic about Canada's chances. I respect the inherent weakness of North American team trying to adjust to FIBA ball. Canada is going to have a meaningfully weaker roster than last summer as well...however the actual players may be better as they have aged and improved.

I sometimes think you tend to overestimate the quality of European players and teams to the detriment of North and South American teams. Mexico is better than given credit. PR is on a downswing the last few years (players, coaching and organization), but has a strong history and a meaningful talent pool to draw from. DR has a couple superstars if they ever play. Brazil with a full compliment of players is on par with most of the best European teams. Argentina is certainly on a downswing, but has some good young guys coming up and some old dogs that can still play in guys like Scola, Nacioni and Prigioni.

I agree the FIBA America's teams last summer were pretty weak for a variety of reasons. But I doubt Turkey would have easily beaten Mexico or Argentina. Turkey has been pretty weak for a few years - they had two wins in Eurobasket last year - a close win over Germany and an overtime wine versus Iceland!

I watched every FIBA Americas game last summer and it was painfully obvious Canada had the most talent and was by far the best team there. After two warm-up wins against Argentina they got surprised in the first game by the wily Argentinians, then proceeded to win 7 straight games by 20-30 points. They got caught by VEN...it happens. A very young team, maybe overconfident, maybe rattled with two starters hospitalized prior to the game, maybe outcoached...but yes they lost. So they can easily lose to Turkey, or Senegal or the Philippines...

You are right - no need to underestimate Turkey - I for one, think our chances of qualifying are low. But tough to tell until we see all teams full rosters. Call me crazy but the Philippines might even be my darkhorse as I am a huge believer in home court advantage. I have been to Manila - I won;t be surprised of a couple French or Canadian starters go down with "food poisoning" before a knockout game just like in Mexico City.

I don't underestimate teams from FIBA Americas, or overrate European teams compared to them. If anything, I am extremely, by many leaps and bounds, way overly generous to the FIBA Americas teams.

The truth is that almost all of the best FIBA Americas players (except USA, Brazil, Argentina, Canada) are guys that play in Latin America, or leagues like Israel or Belgium, or whatever.

For example, other than Ayon, Mexico does not have a single player that is at at Euroleague level quality. Some of the big European national teams have 12 guys at Euroleague level, and there top players are also a lot better than Ayon is. A team like Venezuela, that won the FIBA Americas, is a roster loaded with guys that would be lucky to get playing time in the French League.

Argentina's absolute best players are either super old and completely washed up, or they are guys that play in Latin America, with the exception being their two leaders (Laproovittola and Campazzo), which are both certianly very good players, but even they are not in the top 20-30 point guards in Europe.

To keep it real, I actually give FIBA Americas way more credit than it deserves. Mexico has been probably the most consistent team there in recent years, and I honestly doubt if they could even win a single game at EuroBasket. That's just flat out honestly. And I watch all of EuroBasket games, Americas games, and I watch all of these players from Americas team that used to be, and/or are now playing in Europe.

Brazil is definitely the best team after USA, along with Canada. However, they are nowhere near being on par with the best European teams. They are more or less at the level of teams like Russia and Turkey, which might not even be in the best 10 European national teams.

Teams like Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic are even weaker than European teams like Georgia and Macedonia, and European teams like Latvia and Belgium are way better than they are. You mention Iceland - well, I honestly think Iceland would beat a team like Puerto Rico rather easily.

The level of EuroBasket is about 5 tiers above Americas.

Jorge Guttierez was actually the only Mexican in the NBA this past season and he would be a very good pg in the Euroleague.