The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[Dr Spaceman]

Sure. I'm not trying to attack Love or say he's a bad player. His dramatic weight loss factors into this though, as well as his putrid finishing.

HIs finishing has been brutal, for sure. The weight loss, mmmm, maybe. I think it's more to do with the way he's used than anything else, personally. Post play is still touch, and you atrophy if you're not using that shot consistently. I'm sure having less weight doesn't HELP him, but it's not like he shed a whole pile of muscle, right? It helps only so much, particularly at the 4. He went from averaging 35.2% of his shots inside of 3 feet in Minny to 19.3% in Cleveland. That's not just from the weight loss, especially when the only two seasons of his career when 40%+ of his shots are coming from three are both seasons with the Cavs.

Right but 1. I don't expect the Warriors to miss much when he's on the floor and 2. How close will he be to the basket guarding Dramond Green?

Right, you're ragging on his defense, but that's going to happen on a finite number of possessions, and those possessions where they are not directly attacking him and shooting a theoretically very high percentage, that rebounding will still matter. Defensive rebounding distance to rim is less important, because the longer the shot, the longer the rebound as a general rule, so he'll still be in fine position.... as he's generally proven, all season long. He's faced stretch bigs before and hasn't had an issue with defensive rebounding, so this is sort of not the most important concern.

All right I feel like this discussion is getting off-track a bit. Here's a real thing that happened in game 7: Curry entered the game and scored 8 points on 3 straight possessions. Donovan immediately pulls Adams and doesn't put him back in the rest of the game.

This is just what the Warriors do. They're not the same team from last year; if a big man gets anywhere near Cirry, Curry makes a beeline right to him and gets a switch, then proceeds to kill him in isolation. That was the entire 2nd half GSW game plan. If they can do this to Steven Adams of all people, I have no idea how Love is going to be able to play no matter how much defensive rebounding he brings.

[tsherkin]

Curry entered the game and scored 8 points on 3 straight possessions. Donovan immediately pulls Adams and doesn't put him back in the rest of the game.

This is just what the Warriors do. They're not the same team from last year; if a big man gets anywhere near Cirry, Curry makes a beeline right to him and gets a switch, then proceeds to kill him in isolation. That was the entire 2nd half GSW game plan. If they can do this to Steven Adams of all people, I have no idea how Love is going to be able to play no matter how much defensive rebounding he brings.

He does do that. Curry is a brutal all-around player and a very dangerous scorer. Of course here's the thing: the Thunder were in the game apart from Durant and Westbrook playing terrible basketball and generally being incapable of shooting. The Warriors exploited Adams over and over again, yes, and they'll likely do this to Love, but the reason Golden State won was not their offense, but that Durant and Westbrook couldn't click over the final four games of the series on offense. They were dreadful in general on the balance of that series. If Love is clicking offensively, and Lebron and Kyrie are as well, it doesn't actually matter what Steph does to Love on the switch, it'll be a very difficult series.

[Dr Spaceman]

Curry entered the game and scored 8 points on 3 straight possessions. Donovan immediately pulls Adams and doesn't put him back in the rest of the game.

This is just what the Warriors do. They're not the same team from last year; if a big man gets anywhere near Cirry, Curry makes a beeline right to him and gets a switch, then proceeds to kill him in isolation. That was the entire 2nd half GSW game plan. If they can do this to Steven Adams of all people, I have no idea how Love is going to be able to play no matter how much defensive rebounding he brings.

He does do that. Curry is a brutal all-around player and a very dangerous scorer. Of course here's the thing: the Thunder were in the game apart from Durant and Westbrook playing terrible basketball and generally being incapable of shooting. The Warriors exploited Adams over and over again, yes, and they'll likely do this to Love, but the reason Golden State won was not their offense, but that Durant and Westbrook couldn't click over the final four games of the series on offense. They were dreadful in general on the balance of that series. If Love is clicking offensively, and Lebron and Kyrie are as well, it doesn't actually matter what Steph does to Love on the switch, it'll be a very difficult series.

I disagree. The story of that series was OKC's defense, and how they were able to neutralize Green and make Curry uncomfortable with their length and activity. Once GSW figured things out it was over.

GSW in wins:

127.7 ORTG
117.9 ORTG
110.9 ORTG
110.6 ORTG

GSW in losses:

99.9
100.7
89.9

So yeah the difference to me is that GSW was able to flip the switch and go from worst_in-league offense to a very good performance against the caliber of defense OKC was in the playoffs.

Durant and WB really didn't click in any games of the series. Even in their game 1 win, they shot a combined 17/51 (.33) from the field.
Game 3 was actually the only game in the entire series that both of the dynamic duo shot greater than 36%. Their defense is much more convincing to me as far as factors go.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Curry entered the game and scored 8 points on 3 straight possessions. Donovan immediately pulls Adams and doesn't put him back in the rest of the game.

This is just what the Warriors do. They're not the same team from last year; if a big man gets anywhere near Cirry, Curry makes a beeline right to him and gets a switch, then proceeds to kill him in isolation. That was the entire 2nd half GSW game plan. If they can do this to Steven Adams of all people, I have no idea how Love is going to be able to play no matter how much defensive rebounding he brings.

He does do that. Curry is a brutal all-around player and a very dangerous scorer. Of course here's the thing: the Thunder were in the game apart from Durant and Westbrook playing terrible basketball and generally being incapable of shooting. The Warriors exploited Adams over and over again, yes, and they'll likely do this to Love, but the reason Golden State won was not their offense, but that Durant and Westbrook couldn't click over the final four games of the series on offense. They were dreadful in general on the balance of that series. If Love is clicking offensively, and Lebron and Kyrie are as well, it doesn't actually matter what Steph does to Love on the switch, it'll be a very difficult series.

I disagree. The story of that series was OKC's defense, and how they were able to neutralize Green and make Curry uncomfortable with their length and activity. Once GSW figured things out it was over.

GSW in wins:

127.7 ORTG
117.9 ORTG
110.9 ORTG
110.6 ORTG

GSW in losses:

99.9
100.7
89.9

So yeah the difference to me is that GSW was able to flip the switch and go from worst_in-league offense to a very good performance against the caliber of defense OKC was in the playoffs.

Durant and WB really didn't click in any games of the series. Even in their game 1 win, they shot a combined 17/51 (.33) from the field.
Game 3 was actually the only game in the entire series that both of the dynamic duo shot greater than 36%. Their defense is much more convincing to me as far as factors go.

Over? Okc were 3/23 from 3 in game 6, while klay broke the record, and the Warriors barely won. Had okc had a bit more composure I think the Warriors wouldn't have won (I don't like to say it, but yeah they choked)

I agree gs figured something out, but a lot of it was curry and Klay performing in 3/2 games vs not performing in 2 games. I 100% agree that okcs defense was the reason though.

[tsherkin]

Durant and WB really didn't click in any games of the series. Even in their game 1 win, they shot a combined 17/51 (.33) from the field.
Game 3 was actually the only game in the entire series that both of the dynamic duo shot greater than 36%. Their defense is much more convincing to me as far as factors go.

That's one way to look at it, sure. I think the remarkably poor second-half offense they played over the last 3 or 4 games of the series were major factors. I didn't mean to entirely dismiss Golden State's offensive performance, naturally, but watching that series, I couldn't help but notice the obvious trend of second-half flagging from OKC. They couldn't maintain their offensive pressure on the Warriors, and in my eyes, that was as relevant as the GSW attack. There was definitely more to it than just the Warriors starting to click offensively.

[SideshowBob]

ESPN has him at #2 on their Playoff MVP list after Steph.

[D.Brasco]

LeBron looking like a beast in the press conference.

[yoyoboy]

Like it or not, LeBron's "legacy" will either be a lot worse or a lot better a couple weeks from now, depending on the outcome of this series. Unfortunately, narratives fabricated by casual fans dominate how players are largely remembered.

[JulesWinnfield]

This finals schedule is totally ridiculous, it's like there is no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. It has been a Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday schedule for some time now, but they are steering away from that this year. There are two days off before every game with the exception of the break between game 3 and 4. I don't like how that flows at all.

[BasketballFan7]

Same, I think the 2 day breaks are crap and help GS. Cavs still gon win it though.

[Quotatious]

What outcome do you guys expect for this series?

I'd bet GSW in 7, but I expect a great series, similar to GSW/OKC in terms of excitement.

[colts18]

Interesting Windhorst article on LeBron. Claims that LeBron wanted to bring the Heat culture to Cleveland but was disappointed at the lack of professionalism from Blatt, Love, and Kyrie. Not sure how much of it I believe since LeBron left to get away from the Heat culture.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15878773/truehoop-presents-lebron-struggles-bring-heat-culture-cavs

[PCProductions]

Interesting Windhorst article on LeBron. Claims that LeBron wanted to bring the Heat culture to Cleveland but was disappointed at the lack of professionalism from Blatt, Love, and Kyrie. Not sure how much of it I believe since LeBron left to get away from the Heat culture.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15878773/truehoop-presents-lebron-struggles-bring-heat-culture-cavs

The Blatt stuff is super weird to me. Like I thought he was the European Gregg Popovich, but I keep hearing about how irritating a guy he was to be around and now he can't even land an NBA assistant job--either that or he's too proud to not be a head coach again. Very strange NBA career that guy had.

I'm not sure about him wanting to leave the Heat culture so much as I think he wanted to bring a title to Cleveland as he knew how much that would mean for his image and legacy. I'm sure there were lots of things he liked about the Heat.

[MisterHibachi]

I think the Warriors' best shot is to win it in 6, and I think they do it.

Even with game 7 on the road, I wouldn't bet against LeBron in a game 7. He's the greatest game 7 player of all time. If it goes 7, I think Cleveland takes it on the road.

[Dupp]

Cavs in 6 is my optimistic guess. It'll play out exactly like thunder series but we actually win game 6.

[JulesWinnfield]

This sounds like such lazy analysis but the whole "make or miss league" cliche rings so true in this series. Both these teams are going to hoist a ton of threes, probably slay every finals record there is in that category if the series goes at least 6. I don't think either team could stop the other from getting their looks. Golden State is the best 3 point shooting team of all time so you have to favor them, but it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that Cleveland can outshoot them for 5-7 game sample. They're shooting it better than them in these playoffs and the roster is loaded with shooting. If they shoot it better than GS in these finals they're going to end the Cleveland drought

[BasketballFan7]

Cleveland wins it

[rich316]

Somebody else posted that the Warriors get harder and harder to beat as a series goes on - I tend to agree. It's the mental and physical toll of defending out to 30 feet. The Cavs need to strike first and win tonight. I think they have a decent shot - GSW hasn't had a lot of time to rest and prepare. Lebron will be ready to play, we will see quickly what kind of Kevin Love shows up. If it's "scoring in the post and draining 3s" Love, they have a great shot. If it's invisible Love, they are probably toast.

[nikomCH]

What outcome do you guys expect for this series?

I'd bet GSW in 7, but I expect a great series, similar to GSW/OKC in terms of excitement.

I think Warriors in 5 honestly

[JLei]

I think the Warriors' best shot is to win it in 6, and I think they do it.

Even with game 7 on the road, I wouldn't bet against LeBron in a game 7. He's the greatest game 7 player of all time. If it goes 7, I think Cleveland takes it on the road.

Lol What??

When has he ever won a game 7 on the road? And what team loses game 7 at home?

I get what your are saying (Lebron is an animal in elimination games) and yet it still is completely ridiculously wrong haha