Lakers 2016 NBA draft #2 pick discussion

[Slava]

Plenty of people have developed a good shot, John Wall, Lebron, Griffin etc all had issues with shooting in their first few seasons and that never stopped them from working on it. Simmons is already working on his jumper this summer so he understands his weakness. What he does have is incredible size, ball handling skills and a fine feel for the game with a pass first attitude to make the right play.

When you start accumulating players who put the team first, beautiful things can happen in basketball.

[jigga_man]

John Wall attempted 114 three pointers in his freshman year and made 33% of them. Simmons attempted a total of 3. As good as an athlete Simmons is, he's no where near the freak athlete Blake Griffin was who led the NCAA in rebounding and had one of the best rebounding seasons ever and finished in the top 20 all time. Obviously Lebron didn't attend college but Simmons this past season finished 81% of his buckets in the paint with his right hand yet follows through on his jumpshot with his left hand. This is leaving people suspecting that his jumpshot may be broken as this is highly unusual. People criticized Lebron's jumper, but not to this degree.

Jonathan Giovony of DraftExpress has been a critic of Simmons for a long time and while he may be biased, he definitely knows his stuff and has questioned his competitiveness and apathy towards defense:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

If Ingram wasn't in this draft, this wouldn't even be a question. But for all his strengths that he displayed in his freshman season (passing ability & rebounding), he has a host of questions that are too much for my liking for a #1 pick. Especially when you have a talent like Ingram who of course has his own flaws as well, but has potential that is not too far off from Simmons.

[Slava]

From a Lakers perspective, I'm not even sure why you are arguing between Simmons and Ingram, we do not make that choice, Philly will and we take the one that remains on the board.

For a more direct comparison, Draymond Green attempted 16 3s in his first full season in college, making 12.5%, he subsequently improved by taking 235 3s over his next two years, making 37%. At least with Simmons we know that he understands his limitations and still shot 56% from the field, 60% TS and has an absurd free throw rate of around 77%. That shows that when he wants to get to the rim, he's been unstoppable.

So its better to concentrate on his strengths than hang onto his perceived weaknesses.

[crazyeights]

Even though we have the 2nd pick, I don't see why we shouldn't be discussing both prospects. Aside from it being entertaining, I think it's important because we could end up with either, and it puts into context just who it is that is falling to us.

As for Simmons, I think a lot of the questions of his motivation could very well have been because he was in a bad situation in college. From what I've seen his body language looked like dude had senioritis as a freshman. I could see combining a crap team with all the attention he was getting as being pretty embarrassing. Although he's about to be a Sixer, so...that attitude could be hugely important

[BEazy]

Ingram and Maker?! Yes please.....

That line up of Maker/Randle/Ingram/Clarkson/Russell...

[Marionettetc]

List of the number 1 picks from the past 20 years for reference:

Too soon to tell, but careers trending up
2015 Karl-Anthony Towns
2014 Andrew Wiggins

2013 Anthony Bennett
2012 Anthony Davis
2011 Kyrie Irving
2010 John Wall
2009 Blake Griffin
2008 Derrick Rose
2007 Greg Oden
2006 Andrea Bargnani
2005 Andrew Bogut
2004 Dwight Howard
2003 LeBron James
2002 Yao Ming
2001 Kwame Brown
2000 Kenyon Martin
1999 Elton Brand
1998 Michael Olowokandi
1997 Tim Duncan
1996 Allen Iverson


The rough % (in my opinion) of franchise level, repeating all-star throughout the majority of their careers from the past 20 drafts taken first is like 40%.

The number of great players taken 2nd over the past 20 years is like 15%. (Durant, Aldridge, Stevie Franchise?)

(Also note the unequivocal busts in red, it's at 25%)

Point being, the draft is a crap-shoot every year and it's largely irrelevant what player we end up with. Obviously your odds of getting a good player decrease exponentially the farther down you draft, so the best every team can do it just their due diligence.

This draft in particular, it definitely looks like we're going to get whichever of Ingram and Simmons Philly doesn't take, and personally I think Ingram will be a better player in the long run.

[IgorK]

Ingram is more intriguing as a bizarro Durant / A.Davis hybrid. A lot of his scouted weaknesses are based on lack of strength (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8z2k9RMU58), something that just about every college player solves by his sophomore season in the league.

Simmons' weaknesses look bust-worthy. Players who have difficulty staying mentally strong in college usually get destroyed in the NBA. I also don't see the "superior" physical tools people cite, he looks league-average for a 3/4 hybrid.

Ingram is nothing like Davis, he's not even close to the defensive presence A.Davis was anchoring Kentucky's defense.

You don't have to agree with me.. but Ingram will continue growing a la Durant and he has the potential to be a great helper on D (if the effort is there). He's got a lot of potential. Hopefully he falls to us

[zuju]

I love both Simmons and Ingram
If we take Ingram finally, we should make him our SF without any doubt in it, and Dlo will be our primary ball handler and floor general though he may not be the expert of it at this point

If we take Simmons, I have a thought that he can be our PG, if his passing, play making and court vision was as great as advertised, and use his size and athleticism to bully the much smaller PGs in the league. At the same time, Russel can turn to a true SG with elite passing and court vision which allows him to make the best judgement on court for either to attack or to make one more pass.

It was intriguing to imagine how both prospects can work with our current young cores

[Laker_Kid]

it's a nice thought, but i really cant imagine randle simmons jc and druss all on the floor together. unless randle wants to be tarik black. and jc can be rip hamilton.


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[tugs]

HORSE all day.

[crazyeights]

What position did Simmons play with D'Angelo in high school? D's said he's never played PG before...so did they also have a point guard in addition to those two? Or did Simmons play point?

[Slava]

What position did Simmons play with D'Angelo in high school? D's said he's never played PG before...so did they also have a point guard in addition to those two? Or did Simmons play point?

Not sure about Simmons but D'Angelo played PG, his back court mate was Justin Bibbs who plays for Virginia Tech who's more of a SG.

[crazyeights]

What position did Simmons play with D'Angelo in high school? D's said he's never played PG before...so did they also have a point guard in addition to those two? Or did Simmons play point?

Not sure about Simmons but D'Angelo played PG, his back court mate was Justin Bibbs who plays for Virginia Tech who's more of a SG.

"I've never really played point guard in my life. I went to college, I was a basketball player and I played every position. I got to this level and point guard was just thrown at me, so it's something you've got to adjust to. It's the hardest position in this league. I'd rather it be hard now than later. I'll figure it out."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-ln-lakers-dangelo-russell-20160128-story.html

Interesting. Maybe he was just referring to college, then? I was always under the impression he was a SG.

[Slava]

What position did Simmons play with D'Angelo in high school? D's said he's never played PG before...so did they also have a point guard in addition to those two? Or did Simmons play point?

Not sure about Simmons but D'Angelo played PG, his back court mate was Justin Bibbs who plays for Virginia Tech who's more of a SG.

"I've never really played point guard in my life. I went to college, I was a basketball player and I played every position. I got to this level and point guard was just thrown at me, so it's something you've got to adjust to. It's the hardest position in this league. I'd rather it be hard now than later. I'll figure it out."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-ln-lakers-dangelo-russell-20160128-story.html

Interesting. Maybe he was just referring to college, then? I was always under the impression he was a SG.

May be Simmons was the pg in school. He does bring the ball up the floor a lot.

[One Love]

Thon Maker is the next KG... He will be the best player from this draft in 3 years... I hope we find a way to grab him... 7'1" 220 lb 19 year old who can run the floor, handle the ball and has some range... He will be a MONSTER in this league...

[Slava]

Thon Maker is the next KG... He will be the best player from this draft in 3 years... I hope we find a way to grab him... 7'1" 220 lb 19 year old who can run the floor, handle the ball and has some range... He will be a MONSTER in this league...

I liked you better when you were a crappy insider.

[DNP-Old]

I love both Simmons and Ingram
If we take Ingram finally, we should make him our SF without any doubt in it, and Dlo will be our primary ball handler and floor general though he may not be the expert of it at this point

If we take Simmons, I have a thought that he can be our PG, if his passing, play making and court vision was as great as advertised, and use his size and athleticism to bully the much smaller PGs in the league. At the same time, Russel can turn to a true SG with elite passing and court vision which allows him to make the best judgement on court for either to attack or to make one more pass.

It was intriguing to imagine how both prospects can work with our current young cores

Although I think SF will ultimately be Ingram's primary position, I would start him out at SG until he fills out a bit. I don't think he is big enough to regularly handle NBA SFs. AS for Simmons, I would start him at SF and not care which one brought up the ball. Just get it and go...

[TyCobb]

Thon Maker is the next KG... He will be the best player from this draft in 3 years... I hope we find a way to grab him... 7'1" 220 lb 19 year old who can run the floor, handle the ball and has some range... He will be a MONSTER in this league...

I liked you better when you were a crappy insider.

That was one of the worst posts Ive ever read. People need to get off Maker. He has zero basketball smarts.

[AcecardZ]

If Maker had any shot at all of being half as good as KG he wouldn't have slipped to the second round.

[ArC_man]

Maker is quickly becoming this year's Upshaw. At least Maker has a good work ethic and no drug history.