Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Sounds like a very talented promising young player that another team would offer a lot for in a trade!
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
LloydFree wrote:That's the thing. I do believe Kris Dunn (not, Murray) is good value for Okafor. You have a better chance of winning a championship with a great ball handling, 2 way PG, than any Non-rebounding, weak rim protecting Center. Rajon Rondo came within 12 minutes of being a major part of Back-to-back championships. John Wall is a starting All-star. Meanwhile, guys like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Enes Kanter(Utah) and Greg Monroe's teams have a hard time winning 35 games in a season. The fallacy is that Okafor has the value to fetch a superstar. He doesn't. He has name recognition amongst fans and draftniks like us, because he was highly touted. But it is clear now, that he is not a star player and other teams know this. The 76ers are selling high, if you ask me. He can only be exposed, the longer they hold on to him.HotelVitale wrote: That's a weird way to think about it and totally the wrong question to ask. The only one that matters is: do you think Kris Dunn/J Murray is more likely to win us a title than Okafor?
You almost asked the right question but then made it way too simple with your examples. If Kris Dunn was probably going to be John Wall or Rajon Rondo, then no one would have problems trading Okafor for him. I like Dunn a lot--been tootin' his horn all year--but he's not likely to be a multiple all-star player and occasional all-NBA player. It's not too much to vaguely hope for, but it's definitely way too much to expect for him given where he's at now and what he's working with. Players aren't archetypes--they're individual players and you're as good as you are.
It's also all dismissively simple to say Okafor is Kanter/Monroe, done deal. You can always be good enough at things that you're really really impactful, no matter the limitations. People asked how good Curry could be as an under-athletic short wing who could only shoot; or how good Nash, as an under-athletic guy who plays terrible defense, could be. I'm not saying Okafor is either guy, but if he becomes an elite offensive weapon then it's plainly obvious that he's more useful than a decent (or even good-not-great) two-wing PG. Point is: all other things being equal, it'd be awesome to get 85 or 90 cents on the dollar and turn Okafor into a two-way PG or wing, but that question is solely, 100% about whether or not you think Dunn/Murray are 90 cents at what they do as Okafor is at what he does.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
76ciology wrote:LloydFree wrote:HotelVitale wrote:
That's a weird way to think about it and totally the wrong question to ask. The only one that matters is: do you think Kris Dunn/J Murray is more likely to win us a title than Okafor? You can not like Okafor much and still find a big role for him on a great team (for example, at worst he could be used like OKC used Kanter this offseason), and there's no reason to give him away for a ho-hum package just because you don't think he can be MVP.
That's the thing. I do believe Kris Dunn (not, Murray) is good value for Okafor. You have a better chance of winning a championship with a great ball handling, 2 way PG, than any Non-rebounding, weak rim protecting Center. Rajon Rondo came within 12 minutes of being a major part of Back-to-back championships. John Wall is a starting All-star. Meanwhile, guys like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Enes Kanter(Utah) and Greg Monroe's teams have a hard time winning 35 games in a season. The fallacy is that Okafor has the value to fetch a superstar. He doesn't. He has name recognition amongst fans and draftniks like us, because he was highly touted. But it is clear now, that he is not a star player and other teams know this. The 76ers are selling high, if you ask me. He can only be exposed, the longer they hold on to him.
Hawks is the best defensive team in the league in terms of DFG%, despite not having a good shotblocking PF/C. Like the Spurs, they play defense as a team, which should be the case. Gone are the days where there's a need for an elite shot blocking center, because teams don't funnel defense into a single player.
How is defense played nowadays? Bigs should be mobile to rotate and close out perimeter players. Wings should be able to rotate and protect the paint. It's an collective effort. Another example is how Celtics plays defense. They were able to make Olynyk and Sullinger plus defenders FWIW. You can neutralize a team's defensive anchor C with a dime a dozen big who can knock down shots at the perimeter.
Jah is mobile enough to move his feet. I can provide you some clips of him being able to stay in front of guys like like Teague, Beal, Payton or Jordan Clarkson. (see my post at Gen Board)
Jah despite all the criticisms, has one of the highest DFGA inside 6 feet. Jah has the 7th highest number of challenged shots, that his opponents shoot almost -7% then their usual FG% when he is defending them.http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/lt6/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FGA_LT_06&dir=1
Less than 10ft defense. 7th in DFGA. -7% Diff
http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/lt10/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
Jah is more of a Draymond Green style rim protector (not saying he is as good) that they play defense around the rim by their verticality than by getting deflections (blocks).
Sixers is not selling high with Jah. You are not the only person in the league who has access in Kevin Pelton's RPM and BKREF's BPM. Right now, Jah has really bad advanced stats and +/-. And most of it has got to do with playing with our deflating team last year.
Jah is a very talented player. He's only 19-20 and you can clearly see improvement with his game as the season progress. Like stats, you just need to put him at the right environment/context to see his value.
For now, I just want to trade him because I think we need to build a certain way around SImmons. And I do think we will draft Simmons.
Save that nonsense for arguments on the General board with other teams's fans. Building ridiculous arguments from contrived statistical scenarios, in order to figure out a way to build a positive argument for your favorite players on the 76ers is getting old. I thought this stuff died when they threw Evan Turner in the garbage. Every serious basketball fan/commentator in the world knows that Okafor is not a good defender, not a good rebounder and not a rim protector. Contrived analysis is for those who are trying to win nonsensical internet arguments. I'm not interested in nonsense.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
HotelVitale wrote:LloydFree wrote:That's the thing. I do believe Kris Dunn (not, Murray) is good value for Okafor. You have a better chance of winning a championship with a great ball handling, 2 way PG, than any Non-rebounding, weak rim protecting Center. Rajon Rondo came within 12 minutes of being a major part of Back-to-back championships. John Wall is a starting All-star. Meanwhile, guys like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Enes Kanter(Utah) and Greg Monroe's teams have a hard time winning 35 games in a season. The fallacy is that Okafor has the value to fetch a superstar. He doesn't. He has name recognition amongst fans and draftniks like us, because he was highly touted. But it is clear now, that he is not a star player and other teams know this. The 76ers are selling high, if you ask me. He can only be exposed, the longer they hold on to him.HotelVitale wrote: That's a weird way to think about it and totally the wrong question to ask. The only one that matters is: do you think Kris Dunn/J Murray is more likely to win us a title than Okafor?
You almost asked the right question but then made it way too simple with your examples. If Kris Dunn was probably going to be John Wall or Rajon Rondo, then no one would have problems trading Okafor for him. I like Dunn a lot--been tootin' his horn all year--but he's not likely to be a multiple all-star player and occasional all-NBA player. It's not too much to vaguely hope for, but it's definitely way too much to expect for him given where he's at now and what he's working with. Players aren't archetypes--they're individual players and you're as good as you are.
It's also all dismissively simple to say Okafor is Kanter/Monroe, done deal. You can always be good enough at things that you're really really impactful, no matter the limitations. People asked how good Curry could be as an under-athletic short wing who could only shoot; or how good Nash, as an under-athletic guy who plays terrible defense, could be. I'm not saying Okafor is either guy, but if he becomes an elite offensive weapon then it's plainly obvious that he's more useful than a decent (or even good-not-great) two-wing PG. Point is: all other things being equal, it'd be awesome to get 85 or 90 cents on the dollar and turn Okafor into a two-way PG or wing, but that question is solely, 100% about whether or not you think Dunn/Murray are 90 cents at what they do as Okafor is at what he does.
Well then your argument just comes down to a difference of perception. You see Okafor as a valuable piece. I don't. I see Dunn as a valuable piece. You don't see him as valuable as I do. In my view and according to my sensibilities about the game, Dunn is much more valuable for the things he offers at his position, than what Okafor offers at his position. I don't look at Dunn as 85 cents on the dollar to Okafor. It's at least fair value, because I would not build a team around a starting Center with Okafor's list of deficiencies.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Who does everyone think would get the better end of the matchup between Simmons vs Okakor? Could Okafor guard Simmons? Could Simmons guard Okafor? Who would make a more positive impac on the team?
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Like I always say, if KAT or Zinger were on this years roster you guys would be ripping them apart even more. Our roster is inept on both ends and you cannot judge this season as a baseline for how good Jahlil can improve
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
LloydFree wrote:HotelVitale wrote:LloydFree wrote:"You don't want to see a 21 year old stud, who was once on your team, averaging 25 ppg 9 rebs 3 ast 1 blk on 58% for a division rival..." Oh, but I do. I do want to see my division rival with that, especially when it come from a Center that's incapable of guarding anybody or protecting the basket. I want to see that because I know that there hasnt been a bad defensive Center win a championship in 20 years. So I know I won't miss what he brings.
That's a weird way to think about it and totally the wrong question to ask. The only one that matters is: do you think Kris Dunn/J Murray is more likely to win us a title than Okafor? You can not like Okafor much and still find a big role for him on a great team (for example, at worst he could be used like OKC used Kanter this offseason), and there's no reason to give him away for a ho-hum package just because you don't think he can be MVP.
That's the thing. I do believe Kris Dunn (not, Murray) is good value for Okafor. You have a better chance of winning a championship with a great ball handling, 2 way PG, than any Non-rebounding, weak rim protecting Center. Rajon Rondo came within 12 minutes of being a major part of Back-to-back championships. John Wall is a starting All-star. Meanwhile, guys like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Enes Kanter(Utah) and Greg Monroe's teams have a hard time winning 35 games in a season. The fallacy is that Okafor has the value to fetch a superstar. He doesn't. He has name recognition amongst fans and draftniks like us, because he was highly touted. But it is clear now, that he is not a star player and other teams know this. The 76ers are selling high, if you ask me. He can only be exposed, the longer they hold on to him.
Dunn averaged 5.7 PPG, 3.2 AST, 4.8 TO in the NCAA as a 19 year old.
Okafor averaged 17.5 PPG, 7.0 RBS, 1.2 Blks in the NBA as a 19 year old.
But I get it Okafor can't improve and Dunn is dripping with potential. If BC trades Okafor for the third pick in a two man draft I'm done.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Definitely need more than dunn coming back
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
spikeslovechild wrote:LloydFree wrote:HotelVitale wrote:
That's a weird way to think about it and totally the wrong question to ask. The only one that matters is: do you think Kris Dunn/J Murray is more likely to win us a title than Okafor? You can not like Okafor much and still find a big role for him on a great team (for example, at worst he could be used like OKC used Kanter this offseason), and there's no reason to give him away for a ho-hum package just because you don't think he can be MVP.
That's the thing. I do believe Kris Dunn (not, Murray) is good value for Okafor. You have a better chance of winning a championship with a great ball handling, 2 way PG, than any Non-rebounding, weak rim protecting Center. Rajon Rondo came within 12 minutes of being a major part of Back-to-back championships. John Wall is a starting All-star. Meanwhile, guys like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Enes Kanter(Utah) and Greg Monroe's teams have a hard time winning 35 games in a season. The fallacy is that Okafor has the value to fetch a superstar. He doesn't. He has name recognition amongst fans and draftniks like us, because he was highly touted. But it is clear now, that he is not a star player and other teams know this. The 76ers are selling high, if you ask me. He can only be exposed, the longer they hold on to him.
Dunn averaged 5.7 PPG, 3.2 AST, 4.8 TO in the NCAA as a 19 year old.
Okafor averaged 17.5 PPG, 7.0 RBS, 1.2 Blks in the NBA as a 19 year old.
But I get it Okafor can't improve and Dunn is dripping with potential. If BC trades Okafor for the third pick in a two man draft I'm done.
Where are you getting 4.8 TO per game?
He averaged 1.9 TO per game with one surgically reconstructed labrum which never fully healed and came back to haunt him when he missed all but 4 games of his sophomore year with another surgery.
Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
I misread the stats table. Still the point stands.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
FWIW..
As prospects.
Okafor: 10.9BPM
Ben Simmons: 11.6 BPM
I would need to ask more than Dunn.
As prospects.
Okafor: 10.9BPM
Ben Simmons: 11.6 BPM
I would need to ask more than Dunn.
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Unbreakable99 wrote:Who does everyone think would get the better end of the matchup between Simmons vs Okakor? Could Okafor guard Simmons? Could Simmons guard Okafor? Who would make a more positive impac on the team?
I don't know if Simmons can guard Okafor. But I've seen good defensive bigs who okafor did drop around 20points with. I've also seen Okafor being mobile enough to defend guards/wings. FWIW, Jah won match-ups against KAT and KP.
Positive impact would lean towards Simmons. Simmons playmaking would give him the edge on offense, I assume. But I think Jah is a better scorer.
While I would guess Simmons is a more mobile defender and between the two, Simmons is a much better prospect in deflections (simmons steals numbers > Okafor block numbers) and grabbing rebounds. I've read/heard questions on Simmons' defense, but I'm skeptical with those looking at Simmons DBPM and steals numbers. But then Sullinger and Olynyk have way higher DRPM than Giannis, so who knows?

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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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The problem I have with Dunn that as a 22 year old he should have dominated the NCAA. He didn't. He played well. Which is why I think he'll be a good not great player. In alot of ways the same player Hinkie gave up to get the LAL pick.
Okafor is worth way more then Dunn. Personally, after two I don't see a whole lot of separation between the prospects.
Buddy Hield
Dragan Bender
Jamal Murray
Kris Dunn
Jaylen Brown
Why move up to three? If you are going to move up wait until the 8-10 range there will still be someone decent available. Though, personally, would be targeting the second tier guys like Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley, and Malachi Richardson,
Okafor is worth way more then Dunn. Personally, after two I don't see a whole lot of separation between the prospects.
Buddy Hield
Dragan Bender
Jamal Murray
Kris Dunn
Jaylen Brown
Why move up to three? If you are going to move up wait until the 8-10 range there will still be someone decent available. Though, personally, would be targeting the second tier guys like Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley, and Malachi Richardson,
Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
spikeslovechild wrote:sixers4real wrote:spikeslovechild wrote:
Why would you trade Okafor who is on the second year of his rookie deal and sign Noel to a 5 year 90 million dollar extension? When you don't even know if you have a starting spot in your lineup for him moving forward.
What we need to do is move Noel for a comparable young player who can solve a position of need. It's going to be hard to get equal value for him this is where BC needs to put on his big boy pants and work to find a deal. He needs to be working with PHX to see if they are interested in moving one of their guards or the 4th overall pick for him. Maybe, you call up MIL and see if they are looking to put a defensive center next to Monroe. Maybe, you call up the Lakers and say look will you accept Russell for Noel. You call up the bulls and say with Gasol and Noah walking would you be willing to accept a package centered around Noel for Butler.
Because Okafor makes NO SENSE with Embiid and Simmons. And he's got more value than Noel right now. How much playing time you got for Okafor if Embiid is healthy, Simmons is #1, and Saric comes over?
Okafor is the starting PF. You move Simmons to SF. It actually pretty much is totally dependent on whether Simmons is willing to put the work in and transition back to being a SF (remember he has a SF going into college).
If everything goes well you basically have Simmons guarding SF on defense and running the point on offense.
It would look something along the lines of:
C: Embiid
PF: Okafor
SF: Simmons
SG: Beal
SG: Middleton
Then two SG. I choose Beal and Middleton because those are the two players I would like to go after but you could as I said in another thread try to design a package around Noel to get you Butler or Russell or if you want a secondary ball handler Knight/Bledsoe on PHX.
One of the biggest misnomers out there is that Okafor is this back to the basket player who can only score inside. He's developed his mid range game. He's not going to be clogging the lanes with Embiid. The question is can Simmons work at SF. I'm of the opinion he could after all he's played SF most of his career. Really it's upto him whether or not he is willing to put in the work in.
Bro, this is a great line-up only if you play 2K, but in reality, even if Okafor has the mid range game which he can actually shoot from the mid range already, he cannot spread the floor still because in today's game the PF needs to shoot from the three and also be able to guard other quick PFs in the league...
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..the other problem with trading for the 3rd pick is that you are not maximizing it if you are not drafting Bender or Chris. Might as well move down to 5th-6th spot.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
brianbaebaeng wrote:spikeslovechild wrote:sixers4real wrote:Because Okafor makes NO SENSE with Embiid and Simmons. And he's got more value than Noel right now. How much playing time you got for Okafor if Embiid is healthy, Simmons is #1, and Saric comes over?
Okafor is the starting PF. You move Simmons to SF. It actually pretty much is totally dependent on whether Simmons is willing to put the work in and transition back to being a SF (remember he has a SF going into college).
If everything goes well you basically have Simmons guarding SF on defense and running the point on offense.
It would look something along the lines of:
C: Embiid
PF: Okafor
SF: Simmons
SG: Beal
SG: Middleton
Then two SG. I choose Beal and Middleton because those are the two players I would like to go after but you could as I said in another thread try to design a package around Noel to get you Butler or Russell or if you want a secondary ball handler Knight/Bledsoe on PHX.
One of the biggest misnomers out there is that Okafor is this back to the basket player who can only score inside. He's developed his mid range game. He's not going to be clogging the lanes with Embiid. The question is can Simmons work at SF. I'm of the opinion he could after all he's played SF most of his career. Really it's upto him whether or not he is willing to put in the work in.
Bro, this is a great line-up only if you play 2K, but in reality, even if Okafor has the mid range game which he can actually shoot from the mid range already, he cannot spread the floor still because in today's game the PF needs to shoot from the three and also be able to guard other quick PFs in the league...
Then why are we entertaining drafting Simmons 1st overall? He plays 3 or 4, both requires shooting 3s I guess.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Sixerscan wrote:Easymoney wrote:Sixerscan wrote:
This is actually the part of his game that is the much bigger issue for me. So much of his offense operates out of the high post which is where Simmons (and less importantly probably Saric) should also be. Otherwise Simmons' playmaking isn't as much of a weapon in the halfcourt. Even if Embiid never plays a second this is still a major problem.
And you can keep acting like Simmons isn't going to be playing power forward, but when the GM of the team is literally saying in every interview that he's a 4, it's probably happening.
Jah showed an improved ability to shoot midrange and has the footwork to become better in the PNR, which compliments Simmons game.
Once again, why are we building a team around a kid who hasn't even played a minute the NBA? Don't you think, with all of the assets we have right now, it would be smart to sit back and evaluate these players before deciding to build around one of them? I know very well what our GM is saying. If the rumors about his eagerness to get rid of Jah are true, he is truly the idiot GM I feared he would be.
Because he's a much much better prospect than Okafor? Like you can disagree with that but you've asked that question and gotten that answer a decent amount...
I don't think its in anyone's best interest to reduce Okafor to a midrange shooter and PNR guy, neither of which he's even good at yet and certainly aren't what he's most effective at. Seems like a good reason to trade the guy... getting traded doesn't mean you're bad.
sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh
I never said that we should reduce Okafor to an exclusive midrange/pnr style, I said that it's within his skill set (proven this year) and we can utilize it to help space the floor when running plays for Embiid/Simmons. There can also be plays for Jah in the half court where he would be the one in the paint and Embiid would be on the perimeter spacing. It's all about being versatile. I'm not requesting that Jah do anything he hasn't already proven he could do well.
Simmons is not a much better prospect than Jah, if at all. You folks are so obsessed with seeing someone who plays like Lebron on our team that you'll do whatever it takes to solidify his spot and ensure that he has no competition.
Tell me, what happens if Simmons becomes a 15/10/5 guy on a 48% while Jah turns into a 25/9/3 guy on 55%. Do you regret prematurely deciding this is Simmon's team or do you delude yourself into believing we made the right choice and couldn't have foretold Jah's improvement?
We do not need to trade anyone this off season. There is no need to force the issue.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Easymoney wrote:Sixerscan wrote:Easymoney wrote:
Jah showed an improved ability to shoot midrange and has the footwork to become better in the PNR, which compliments Simmons game.
Once again, why are we building a team around a kid who hasn't even played a minute the NBA? Don't you think, with all of the assets we have right now, it would be smart to sit back and evaluate these players before deciding to build around one of them? I know very well what our GM is saying. If the rumors about his eagerness to get rid of Jah are true, he is truly the idiot GM I feared he would be.
Because he's a much much better prospect than Okafor? Like you can disagree with that but you've asked that question and gotten that answer a decent amount...
I don't think its in anyone's best interest to reduce Okafor to a midrange shooter and PNR guy, neither of which he's even good at yet and certainly aren't what he's most effective at. Seems like a good reason to trade the guy... getting traded doesn't mean you're bad.
sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh
I never said that we should reduce Okafor to an exclusive midrange/pnr style, I said that it's within his skill set (proven this year) and we can utilize it to help space the floor when running plays for Embiid/Simmons. There can also be plays for Jah in the half court where he would be the one in the paint and Embiid would be on the perimeter spacing. It's all about being versatile. I'm not requesting that Jah do anything he hasn't already proven he could do well.
Simmons is not a much better prospect than Jah, if at all. You folks are so obsessed with seeing someone who plays like Lebron on our team that you'll do whatever it takes to solidify his spot and ensure that he has no competition.
Tell me, what happens if Simmons becomes a 15/10/5 guy on a 48% while Jah turns into a 25/9/3 guy on 55%. Do you regret prematurely deciding this is Simmon's team or do you delude yourself into believing we made the right choice and couldn't have foretold Jah's improvement?
We do not need to trade anyone this off season. There is no need to force the issue.
It's Embiid's team regardless of the Simmons/Okafor debate. If he is healthy then HE is the best player, and the center of everything we do.
You are taking Okafor's ceiling and comparing it to Simmons' floor. Yeah, that could technically happen, but is unlikely. Plus Simmons will make others around him better, and be a better defender, and he fits next to Embiid better.
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Ericb5 wrote:Easymoney wrote:Ericb5 wrote:
I mean that he is behind the 8 ball because of fit, and not that we need urgency to trade him.
I have said this a number of times. My preference is to keep him and see how it goes, but I think that he WILL be traded at the draft, just by reading the tea leaves.
As long as we are going to trade him, I would like something like 4 and Knight.
Despite as much as I love him as a prospect, and think that he is going to get better, I think his long term fit with Embiid and Simmons is going to be tough. I think that he is a solid 3rd in the pecking order of this franchise.
He is our best opportunity to get a good backcourt quickly, and we are beyond the tanking stage, and need to put some viable guards on the roster if for no other reason than to help develop our bigs.
You characterize willingness to trade him as urgency to trade him as if people just want him off the team, and other than a few exceptions, that isn't what people are saying.
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The difference between you and I on this matter is that you have already committed to building around Simmons, despite him not playing a single solitary second at the NBA level, while I am willing to take a more cautious approach in regards to finding our star. My plan has versatility and optionality, while yours is simply a gamble.
Why rush to get backcourt players in this draft when better options will be available next year? Do you really want to trade Okafor for players we may very well marginalize after next years draft? Does that make any logical sense at all?
The only thing we need to worry about in terms of backcourt play this year is making sure we don't play Dleague players in our starting lineup.
It's true that I am ready to commit to building around Simmons and Embiid.
I just think that they are the stars that we needed to get from the tank, and now I am ready to start complimenting them. We can't have the same Dleague backcourt this season. We need more stability there.
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You're willing to build a team around players who haven't proven anything at this level. What happens if you're wrong? We'll be right back to where we were in 2012-13. You want to maximize your chance of getting a star. Right now we have 3 guys in Embiid, Okafor, and Simmons who can be stars. We also have the picks and space to begin properly building at the conclusion of next season. What you guys are suggesting doesn't make sense. Why cut one of your potential stars to build around another potential star, who hasn't proven anything, when you can afford to be responsible and evaluate?
You won't know how to properly build around any prospect until you see their NBA game. I can't believe a concept so fundamental to proper management is downright foreign to so many.
All we have to do this year is sign guys to our backcourt who aren't dleague players and bring veterans in at the right price. We don't need to trade any of our top prospects yet.
Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
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Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel
Ericb5 wrote:Easymoney wrote:Sixerscan wrote:
Because he's a much much better prospect than Okafor? Like you can disagree with that but you've asked that question and gotten that answer a decent amount...
I don't think its in anyone's best interest to reduce Okafor to a midrange shooter and PNR guy, neither of which he's even good at yet and certainly aren't what he's most effective at. Seems like a good reason to trade the guy... getting traded doesn't mean you're bad.
sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh
I never said that we should reduce Okafor to an exclusive midrange/pnr style, I said that it's within his skill set (proven this year) and we can utilize it to help space the floor when running plays for Embiid/Simmons. There can also be plays for Jah in the half court where he would be the one in the paint and Embiid would be on the perimeter spacing. It's all about being versatile. I'm not requesting that Jah do anything he hasn't already proven he could do well.
Simmons is not a much better prospect than Jah, if at all. You folks are so obsessed with seeing someone who plays like Lebron on our team that you'll do whatever it takes to solidify his spot and ensure that he has no competition.
Tell me, what happens if Simmons becomes a 15/10/5 guy on a 48% while Jah turns into a 25/9/3 guy on 55%. Do you regret prematurely deciding this is Simmon's team or do you delude yourself into believing we made the right choice and couldn't have foretold Jah's improvement?
We do not need to trade anyone this off season. There is no need to force the issue.
It's Embiid's team regardless of the Simmons/Okafor debate. If he is healthy then HE is the best player, and the center of everything we do.
You are taking Okafor's ceiling and comparing it to Simmons' floor. Yeah, that could technically happen, but is unlikely. Plus Simmons will make others around him better, and be a better defender, and he fits next to Embiid better.
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You emphasize the risk of Joel staying healthy, yet you're preparing to build around him before it's proven he can stay on the court. Think about that.
How do you know what is likely for Simmons until you've seen him play against NBA talent? You are putting the cart before the horse.
Are you saying JAh can't make other players around him better. Any player who can draw double teams and is a willing passer can make his teammates better as they'll be getting open looks. All these leaps and assumptions you guys are making can potentially ruin all of the progress we've made these last 3 years.