Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Ericb5]

Lol at the tweet.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pompeyonsixers/status/738424793763045380[/tweet]

Predicting the General Board thread:

"Sixers Strongly Considering Jamal Murray with First Pick"

I thought you were laughing at his improper use of the word contentious, which was probably an autocorrect of contention.

[freshie2]

Ok.

Which is easier?

Simmons becoming LeBron or Ingram becoming Paul George?

I didn't say it's easy. I said, it's a lot easier. Of if it suits you.. less difficult.

Simmons is closer to LBJ. George is very smooth, which Ingram isn't. Not that's a great comp. People often compare Simmons to the Greek freak, but I honestly think that is a better comp to Ingram. Ingram a much better shooter, and less an athlete, but their length is what makes them unique prospects.

[Stanford]

Lol at the tweet.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pompeyonsixers/status/738424793763045380[/tweet]

Predicting the General Board thread:

"Sixers Strongly Considering Jamal Murray with First Pick"

I thought you were laughing at his improper use of the word contentious, which was probably an autocorrect of contention.

Ha, I didn't even notice. Immune to auto-corrects I guess.

[Negrodamus]

Ok.

Which is easier?

Simmons becoming LeBron or Ingram becoming Paul George?

I didn't say it's easy. I said, it's a lot easier. Of if it suits you.. less difficult.

Simmons is closer to LBJ. George is very smooth, which Ingram isn't. Not that's a great comp. People often compare Simmons to the Greek freak, but I honestly think that is a better comp to Ingram. Ingram a much better shooter, and less an athlete, but their length is what makes them unique prospects.

I think Simmons is pre NBA Giannis if he was doing the things he does, but in Ingram's body.

[PhilasFinest]

I don't think Giannis was nearly as skilled as Simmons coming into the league.

I think he was more "Raw" than both Simmons and Ingram.

[Arsenal]

When the Sixers draft Simmons are people going to stop talking about Ingram or are they going to keep saying we should have drafted Ingram?

I probably stop talking about him since this is the Sixers board.

I will, however, bring him up if we Evan Turner this pick. Kinda like what I did when we didn't draft Cousins. It won't be too obnoxious though.

It's funny. I was with you in being vehemently anti-Turner. Perhaps we were the only ones lol. I wanted Cousins or Favors without question.

That said, I'm 100% on board Team Simmons. He's a FAR superior prospect in every way.

[Negrodamus]

I don't think Giannis was nearly as skilled as Simmons coming into the league.

I think he was more "Raw" than both Simmons and Ingram.

I think he was probably around the same. Granted, he wasn't playing the soft SEC schedule and Simmons's body type is much more mature than Giannis's was.

I also think Giannis is was/is more explosive.

[Negrodamus]

When the Sixers draft Simmons are people going to stop talking about Ingram or are they going to keep saying we should have drafted Ingram?

I probably stop talking about him since this is the Sixers board.

I will, however, bring him up if we Evan Turner this pick. Kinda like what I did when we didn't draft Cousins. It won't be too obnoxious though.

It's funny. I was with you in being vehemently anti-Turner. Perhaps we were the only ones lol. I wanted Cousins or Favors without question.

That said, I'm 100% on board Team Simmons. He's a FAR superior prospect in every way.

Hey man, you're entitled to your opinion. It's certainly not a bad stance at all. And I agree, he is a better prospect than Turner. I will say that I would like Cousins out of UK more than Simmons because I just knew what he would become.

[PhilasFinest]

I don't think Giannis was nearly as skilled as Simmons coming into the league.

I think he was more "Raw" than both Simmons and Ingram.

I think he was probably around the same. Granted, he wasn't playing the soft SEC schedule and Simmons's body type is much more mature than Giannis's was.

I also think Giannis is was/is more explosive.

I'll give you the explosiveness. Outside of that, I disagree. I think Simmons is more skilled with the ball than Giannis was coming into the league.

Your right, he didnt play in the soft SEC, but I can't imagine the talent is any better in a 3rd divison in the Greek B league.

[LloydFree]

I prefer Ingram, but I won't be torn up if they select Simmons. However, I have a lot of questions about how Simmons game will transfer to the NBA. He's a perimeter player that can't shoot right now. That a problem. Another problem that I don't see talked about is that although he is a good scorer on the college level, he avoids contact like the plague when driving to the basket. That's a bad trait in the NBA. Unlike college, they won't call the foul if you try to avoid contact.

The comps also give me pause. I don't see anything close to resembling Magic Johnson. Lebron on offense... maybe... without the Physicality or the jumper. More than anything, I keep seeing, Lamar Odom and Billy Owens whenever I watch him, and that could be a disapointment for people expecting Lebron James.

[Arsenal]

I prefer Ingram, but I won't be torn up if they select Simmons. However, I have a lot of questions about how Simmons game will transfer to the NBA. He's a perimeter player that can't shoot right now. That a problem. Another problem that I don't see talked about is that although he is a good scorer on the college level, he avoids contact like the plague when driving to the basket. That's a bad trait in the NBA. Unlike college, they won't call the foul if you try to avoid contact.

The comps also give me pause. I don't see anything close to resembling Magic Johnson. Lebron on offense... maybe... without the Physicality or the jumper. More than anything, I keep seeing, Lamar Odom and Billy Owens whenever I watch him, and that could be a disapointment for people expecting Lebron James.

Simmons shot a TON of free throws, so I don't understand how him avoiding contact is a weakness. I mean, he had over 10 FTA per 40 min! That's ridiculous. As a comparison, the BEST guy at drawing free throws in the NBA, James Harden, had 7.7 FTA per 40 min his freshman year. If there is one thing we can count on, it's that Simmons will draw A TON of fouls in the NBA.

And sure he can't shoot yet, but LeBron couldn't shoot all that well either. He hasn't had to shoot yet. In the NBA, he'll work on his outside game and it will get better.

His college numbers are far superior to Billy Owens and Lamar Odom.

[Arsenal]

Here are LeBron James' 2nd year (age 20) stats on a Per 36 minute basis:

23.1 Points
6.2 Rebs
6.1 Assists
1.9 Steals
0.6 Blocks
55.4 TS%

I'll be a bit disappointed if Simmons doesn't match them his rookie (age 20) season. He'll probably have a bit fewer points but more rebounds. Everything else should be very similar.

[Stanford]

I would be surprised if he averaged 6 assists. I have a feeling that we'll have a point guard dominating the ball in the half court, and if we keep Okafor, that'll give him even less time to operate.

[kdthunderup]

I think you guys are crazy if you don't pick Simmons. He screams future top 5 player if he develops a jump-shot, to me he has nearly everything you want from a modern NBA player.

Him as a 4 or even a 5 in a small ball lineup would be unreal.

[76ciology]

Brandon Ingram, SF, Duke: Los Angeles would prefer Simmons, I'm told. But getting Ingram is still a great outcome for the post-Kobe Lakers. He's a long athlete who shot 41 percent from 3-point range in one season at Duke. I can't promise he's the next Kevin Durant. But when you watch him, it's easy to see why those comparisons exist. Ingram would fit perfectly with the Lakers young core. He could be the player who returns the franchise to respectability.

Good sign IMO.
[url]
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-76ers-switch-from-brandon-ingram-to-ben-simmons-at-no-1/[/url]

[oddwolfhooligan]

Here's my issue with drafting Ben Simmons—Because he's such a tough fit into a lineup, any team that wants to maximize him will have to build around him. That's fine if he turns out to be a franchise player, but as I already broke down about 20 pages ago, that's far from a sure thing for multiple reasons that extend well-beyond his jump shot. He legitimately struggles to score and facilitate in the half court and a disproportionate amount of his production at LSU came in transition. Not to mention most of his offense came from bullying smaller and less physically-imposing players, who he won't have the convenience of competing against in the NBA. These two weaknesses are HUGE red flags for a player that so many of you are ready to anoint as the future of our franchise. Like I'm sorry, but Ben Simmons isn't gonna lead us to **** if he can't consistently create offense for both himself and his teammates in the halfcourt. Then there's the fact that despite having the reputation for being an elite facilitator, there's very little evidence that Ben Simmons actually made his teammates better at LSU, minus when they got out in transition. Lastly, he's shown very little drive, toughness, competitiveness, etc. which is pretty **** important if you want to lead your team to an NBA title. IDK about you guys, but a player who crumbled in the face of adversity and quit on his college team sure doesn't sound like a future NBA Finals MVP to me. The guys who have those specific character concerns in college rarely change and they pretty much never turn into guys that you can count on to win you a championship.

Oh right, and he can't shoot and likely never becomes better than an average shooter.

I understand why the Sixers front office won't take this approach, but here's what imo is the reality of this situation. There isn't a legit franchise player in this draft. Sure, Ben Simmons probably has the best chance of becoming one, but that doesn't change the fact that even with moderate improvement, his flaws will likely prevent him from getting there. However, if you draft him, your only choice is to put all your eggs in the Ben Simmons basket and build the entire team around the guy. That will be great in the off-chance that he becomes a top 6 or 7 player, but in the likely event that he doesn't, you just went all in on a guy that was never actually good enough to get you anywhere meaningful. With Ingram, you don't have to gamble your entire future on him panning out. His game is so well-suited for the NBA that even if he doesn't become a star, you still have a very valuable roster piece who almost certainly would fit alongside whichever star the Sixers eventually pull.

Taking all this into consideration, I personally think that the Sixers best option is to take Ingram knowing that in all likelihood he could probably at least become a very solid #2 guy on a contender who will be able to fit nicely alongside any future franchise player. Then the Sixers need to tank one more year giving them a great shot at a top 3 pick in a 2017 draft that should be one of the strongest drafts of the 2000s. Pick BPA(someone like Jackson, Giles, Fultz, etc.) and pair him with Ingram and (hopefully) Embiid. Boom you've got a very legit trio of the future and the best part is that they'll all have games that are easy to build around and very well-suited for today's NBA.

[rallydurham]

The problem with ingram is you won't know what you have for another 4 years and then you have to max him out so you never really capture any true "value". In the meantime you will keep losing a ton of games because he's not any good yet.

With simmons you get a good player locked into a cheap deal for four years. And he's probably going to justify a max deal.

So you have a marketable, 10+ year likely star player. It's just an easy pick from a general manager standpoint.

[freshie2]

I don't think Giannis was nearly as skilled as Simmons coming into the league.

I think he was more "Raw" than both Simmons and Ingram.

I think he was probably around the same. Granted, he wasn't playing the soft SEC schedule and Simmons's body type is much more mature than Giannis's was.

I also think Giannis is was/is more explosive.

Agree...He's much more explosive than Ingram. Neither appear to be as athletic as Simmons.

A lot of discussion about difficulty with fit for Simmons, which I don't see. If he were a 19/11 power forward that has great vision, passing, efficient scoring inside, and a plus athlete wouldn't that be something of value? In my experience, a versatile pf/c is an easy fit on any team. Appreciate the questions about developing a 3 pts shot, but questioning how he'd 'fit' on the floor doesn't make sense. Also pretty easy to build around the same type of player when they are your star, plus it is easier to obtain 3 & D players than to obtain a star that likes to distribute.

[Agnostifarian]

If we pick Simmons, he needs to run the offense and have the ball in his hands all the time so he can create.

Imagine Tony Wroten's game if he was 6'10", a facilitator and could finish at the rim… That is an All-Star.

If that is our future, let's not give up Noel for Jeff Teague.

[freshie2]

If we pick Simmons, he needs to run the offense and have the ball in his hands all the time so he can create.

Imagine Tony Wroten's game if he was 6'10", a facilitator and could finish at the rim… That is an All-Star.

If that is our future, let's not give up Noel for Jeff Teague.

Best day ever for Tony Wroten...a comp to Simmons is high praise!

Agree that Simmons should have the ball in his hands, but if the worst case is he's just a pf with good vision and ball skills, that's not a difficult piece to fit on the court...that's more the point I'm trying to make.