What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements?

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What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#1 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:52 am

Height: 6'10
Wingspan: 7'
Standing reach: 8'11"

Simmons has a short wingspan relative to height.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-freakish-advantage-of-nba-all-stars-1455224954

Image

Anyone who has seen Leonardo da Vinci’s sketch of the Vitruvian man knows the average person’s wingspan is roughly equal to his height. NBA players, though, aren’t average people. NBA players have a wingspan-to-height ratio is 1.06 to 1, according to a DraftExpress database of players who were drafted in the last three years, and they’re such a remarkable sample that a ratio of 1.1 to 1 is more common in the league than the ordinary 1 to 1.


Leonard and Green are outliers among the outliers. Green’s wingspan is 1.09 times his height without shoes, and that’s nothing compared to Leonard’s. Leonard turned heads at the NBA draft combine for his hands, which are roughly the size of non-stick pans, but he also had an incredible 7-foot-3 wingspan. His ratio was 1.12 to 1 is the largest of any All-Star in the last 15 years.

Leonard and Green’s heights and wingspans place them in the sweet spot of players who are uniquely suited for the current NBA. In the last five years, as the sport has rewarded teams that play faster and spread the court, many of the most successful teams have embraced small-ball lineups and benched their oafs who couldn’t keep up. Green and Leonard are perfect in this era. They aren’t too big to play on the perimeter, but they aren’t too small to bang in the post. Their wingspans let them clog passing lanes, and their hands allow them to rip down contested rebounds.


In general, the advantage of having a large wingspan is playing bigger compared to your height and versatility. I do find Simmons unique, because despite of his short wingspan his 6'10 height and 9' reach are elite for SF and is good for the popular tweener PFs nowadays. Then we all know that Simmons is also versatile enough that he can generate steals (wing trait) and rebound (big man trait).

[jpg]https://dlloydtv.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/kawhi-2.jpg[/jpg]
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I notice how Simmons has effort issues on defense. They have all the usual excuse like staying out of foul trouble and etc. But could it be because of his elite height and short wingspan is limiting him to move side to side on defense? On eyetest, he seems too upright (see Nate duncan's podcast on simmons) and is elite in moving straight. So that might explain his steals numbers which I guess would be generating through interception than on ball defense/reach. Could his lack of wingspan length limit him from being a good defender at the wing position? The way I see it, he could be good at challenging shots because of his vertical length, but he might have trouble moving laterals because of the combination of his height + short wingspan.

Simmons is versatile. He can play big at the SF position. But he lacks that star trait of good height to wingspan ratio. What are the pros and cons of his unique measurement?
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#2 » by freewhitemoon » Fri Jun 3, 2016 7:33 am

Wingspan dosent really influence your lateral movement. That mostly depends on a combination of your fast twitch muscles + hip flexibility. Simmons does look pretty stiff in that regard, idk if it's because he cant get down in a stance or he just cant be bothered. You'll see the best perimeter defenders get down really low like Kawhi in that pic
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#3 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 3, 2016 9:03 am

freewhitemoon wrote:Wingspan dosent really influence your lateral movement. That mostly depends on a combination of your fast twitch muscles + hip flexibility. Simmons does look pretty stiff in that regard, idk if it's because he cant get down in a stance or he just cant be bothered. You'll see the best perimeter defenders get down really low like Kawhi in that pic


Lack ofwingspan may require him to get down lower (short wingspan + 6'10 height)thus making it a hip flexibility issue?
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#4 » by toussaud » Fri Jun 3, 2016 9:13 am

I'm pretty convinced that no one has actually seen simmons play, because everyone keeps saying he's a small forward and he's just not. He'/s not that type of athlete.

Think a skinner, non shooting version of Chris Weber. That's what his game is like. he's not a small forward.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#5 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 3, 2016 9:41 am

toussaud wrote:I'm pretty convinced that no one has actually seen simmons play, because everyone keeps saying he's a small forward and he's just not. He'/s not that type of athlete.

Think a skinner, non shooting version of Chris Weber. That's what his game is like. he's not a small forward.


It's more of having great skillset, athleticism and length to play wing, which for me is the position that gives him most upside.

The question for me is.. Can he guard wings? And I wonder if his poor wingspan to height ratio limits him to get down w/ volume (time+speed) on defense. On offense, seems like he is quick with the ball though.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#6 » by MalonesElbows » Fri Jun 3, 2016 1:28 pm

He'll never be a plus defender, but will be a beast offensively. He's 6'10" 240 with an elite change of direction with the ball. Ingram will never have that.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#7 » by freewhitemoon » Fri Jun 3, 2016 2:47 pm

MalonesElbows wrote:He'll never be a plus defender, but will be a beast offensively. He's 6'10" 240 with an elite change of direction with the ball. Ingram will never have that.


saying he'll never be a plus defender seems like a stretch
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#8 » by Renegade_H » Fri Jun 3, 2016 3:23 pm

Anyone who says his wingspan is hurting him has not looked at Lebron's wingspan when he was coming out of high school. Exactly the same height, weight and wingspan as Simmons. I'm cool with his wingspan and his 3/4 court sprint was as fast as Derrick Rose in 2008. 3.05. For a 6'10 240 lb PF.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#9 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jun 3, 2016 3:59 pm

A 7 feet wingspan isn't small. That's considered a big wingspan. 6-10 to 7 feet for a wingspan is considered a big wingspan.

A wingspan 7-2 or over is considered huge.

LeBron has a 7-0 wingspan, and Giannis Antetokounmpo has a 7-3 wingspan.

This reminds of me when Yao was measured as having a 7-6 wingspan, and people said he had a short wingspan and "short arms". Just because your wingspan is the same as your height, does not suddenly mean you have a small wingspan. As Yao's wingspan was gigantic, but for some reason people don't distinguish like that.

A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#10 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:25 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:A 7 feet wingspan isn't small. That's considered a big wingspan. 6-10 to 7 feet for a wingspan is considered a big wingspan.

A wingspan 7-2 or over is considered huge.

LeBron has a 7-0 wingspan, and Giannis Antetokounmpo has a 7-3 wingspan.

This reminds of me when Yao was measured as having a 7-6 wingspan, and people said he had a short wingspan and "short arms". Just because your wingspan is the same as your height, does not suddenly mean you have a small wingspan. As Yao's wingspan was gigantic, but for some reason people don't distinguish like that.

A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.


I agree somewhat.

Issue is his height + short arms may limit him to get down on defense with volume (speed + time duration). Thus, he always play upright even on offense. But yeah, anything straight and vertical should be an advantage like challenging shots and grabbing rebounds.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#11 » by freewhitemoon » Fri Jun 3, 2016 5:37 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:A 7 feet wingspan isn't small. That's considered a big wingspan. 6-10 to 7 feet for a wingspan is considered a big wingspan.

A wingspan 7-2 or over is considered huge.

LeBron has a 7-0 wingspan, and Giannis Antetokounmpo has a 7-3 wingspan.

This reminds of me when Yao was measured as having a 7-6 wingspan, and people said he had a short wingspan and "short arms". Just because your wingspan is the same as your height, does not suddenly mean you have a small wingspan. As Yao's wingspan was gigantic, but for some reason people don't distinguish like that.

A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.


Whether your wingspan is big or small is relative to your height. 7 feet for a 6'10 guy is considered mediocre just like a 7'2 wingspan for a 7'0 center. The average wingspan for a PF in the nba is around 7'1 so Ben's one is slightly below average
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#12 » by HotelVitale » Fri Jun 3, 2016 6:17 pm

freewhitemoon wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote: A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.
Whether your wingspan is big or small is relative to your height. 7 feet for a 6'10 guy is considered mediocre just like a 7'2 wingspan for a 7'0 center. The average wingspan for a PF in the nba is around 7'1 so Ben's one is slightly below average

That league average sounds right, and if Ben measures at 7' 1/4" (the LSU team measurement on DX) then he's just 3/4 of an inch below average. That isn't anything more than what it sounds like--while every inch matters in the NBA, that tiny amount is not going to make or break him as a defender.

Not an advantage but it won't be a weakness for him either.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#13 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jun 3, 2016 8:14 pm

freewhitemoon wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:A 7 feet wingspan isn't small. That's considered a big wingspan. 6-10 to 7 feet for a wingspan is considered a big wingspan.

A wingspan 7-2 or over is considered huge.

LeBron has a 7-0 wingspan, and Giannis Antetokounmpo has a 7-3 wingspan.

This reminds of me when Yao was measured as having a 7-6 wingspan, and people said he had a short wingspan and "short arms". Just because your wingspan is the same as your height, does not suddenly mean you have a small wingspan. As Yao's wingspan was gigantic, but for some reason people don't distinguish like that.

A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.


Whether your wingspan is big or small is relative to your height. 7 feet for a 6'10 guy is considered mediocre just like a 7'2 wingspan for a 7'0 center. The average wingspan for a PF in the nba is around 7'1 so Ben's one is slightly below average


This might be something that sports writers, draft websites, and fans think. No scouts consider a 7 feet wingspan short.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#14 » by freewhitemoon » Fri Jun 3, 2016 8:22 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
freewhitemoon wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:A 7 feet wingspan isn't small. That's considered a big wingspan. 6-10 to 7 feet for a wingspan is considered a big wingspan.

A wingspan 7-2 or over is considered huge.

LeBron has a 7-0 wingspan, and Giannis Antetokounmpo has a 7-3 wingspan.

This reminds of me when Yao was measured as having a 7-6 wingspan, and people said he had a short wingspan and "short arms". Just because your wingspan is the same as your height, does not suddenly mean you have a small wingspan. As Yao's wingspan was gigantic, but for some reason people don't distinguish like that.

A 7 foot wingspan is a good wingspan, unless you are a center. The height to wingspan ratio does not mean Simmons has a short wingspan, because 7 feet isn't short, no matter how you want to look at it. 7 feet is 7 feet, regardless of your height.


Whether your wingspan is big or small is relative to your height. 7 feet for a 6'10 guy is considered mediocre just like a 7'2 wingspan for a 7'0 center. The average wingspan for a PF in the nba is around 7'1 so Ben's one is slightly below average


This might be something that sports writers, draft websites, and fans think. No scouts consider a 7 feet wingspan short.


yep you got me, I'm just a fan. Which NBA franchise do you scout for?
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#15 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jun 3, 2016 8:55 pm

freewhitemoon wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
freewhitemoon wrote:
Whether your wingspan is big or small is relative to your height. 7 feet for a 6'10 guy is considered mediocre just like a 7'2 wingspan for a 7'0 center. The average wingspan for a PF in the nba is around 7'1 so Ben's one is slightly below average


This might be something that sports writers, draft websites, and fans think. No scouts consider a 7 feet wingspan short.


yep you got me, I'm just a fan. Which NBA franchise do you scout for?


Once you have a 7 feet wingspan, the idea that your wingspan can be "short" as compared to the ratio with your height, does not apply. It's a 7 feet wingspan, and it is the same length whether you are 6-8 or 7-0 tall. In the NBA anytime you have 7 feet of length on the court, that is considered good.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#16 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 4, 2016 3:22 am

Short or long, is relative to position you play for.

7' is very good wingspan for a 3, but average for a 4.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#17 » by Rastas » Sat Jun 4, 2016 5:08 am

Hope I get to see some minutes of Simmons playing at PG , is his 7 foot wingspan ok for PG's?
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#18 » by Westbreezy » Sat Jun 4, 2016 7:05 am

76ciology wrote:Short or long, is relative to position you play for.

7' is very good wingspan for a 3, but average for a 4.


I feel like it depends on the type of player you are-- Julius Randle also has a 7 foot wingspan and plays the 4 and everyone makes fun of him for having t-rex arms and for that short wingspan affecting his game/finishing abilities. BUT, Simmons is going to be more of a player who handles the ball a ton and destroys guys with his athleticism and first step. Because of that, he won't need a long wingspan like a guy like Randle would need it. Also, I'm guessing traditional PFs won't guard Simmons because he'll be able to blow by them, meaning he may have smaller more mobile guys on him.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#19 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 4, 2016 7:39 am

Rastas wrote:Hope I get to see some minutes of Simmons playing at PG , is his 7 foot wingspan ok for PG's?


Problem lies in lateral defense and shooting. Same with SF position. If he translates at PG-SF (improve defense and shooting)you sre looking at a surefire perennial star player.
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Re: What are pros & cons of Simmons' measurements? 

Post#20 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 4, 2016 7:42 am

Westbreezy wrote:
76ciology wrote:Short or long, is relative to position you play for.

7' is very good wingspan for a 3, but average for a 4.


I feel like it depends on the type of player you are-- Julius Randle also has a 7 foot wingspan and plays the 4 and everyone makes fun of him for having t-rex arms and for that short wingspan affecting his game/finishing abilities. BUT, Simmons is going to be more of a player who handles the ball a ton and destroys guys with his athleticism and first step. Because of that, he won't need a long wingspan like a guy like Randle would need it. Also, I'm guessing traditional PFs won't guard Simmons because he'll be able to blow by them, meaning he may have smaller more mobile guys on him.


6'9-6'10 height 7' wingspan 8'10-8'11 standing reach. Both guys have very similar wingspan. Yes, like Randle, I see Simmons having trouble scoring in the paint. He will need to score off the dribble and not just bulldozing his way down low. FWIW, Simmons only shot 55%@rim on halfcourt.
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