Brooklyn Nets 2016-17 season Pick Watch Thread

[Jingles]

Look around them in the standings. Bucks, Magic, Knicks, Nuggets, Kings; they aren't passing these teams without massive improvement and more good health luck with Brook. These are teams that can be expected to improve organically without having to rely on the prayer of drawing relevant free agent talent (in the worst offseason ever to have to rely on relevant free agent talent). Pelicans had brutal health luck all season and easily stayed ahead of the Nets. Suns had injuries + insanity and still beat them out. Lakers could see a big improvement if Jim Buss gets desperate. Everyone is going to be overpaying, and almost everyone has the advantage over Brooklyn of not currently being a dumpster fire. If Jeremy Lin is the best they can hope for, we're already in great shape.

Hard to know the inner workings of the mind of a Russian bureaucrat but it also wouldn't surprise me if Prok wouldn't be all that keen on signing checks knowing that filling up the salary cap would barely improve the team's short-term ceiling and long-term outlook.

He could also just as easily decide he wants to sell and empty the roster of long-term commitments entirely.

[Homerclease]

I can't see the Nets ownership goal being anything but trying to win as many games as possible -there is no reason for them to lose and if they manage to get to the 7th-10th seed it will ease the pain and embarrassment of the Nets/Celtics trade. I've posted many times I'd rather forego the 2018 pick to prime the pump for them to go into freefall into what Philly was this year. I'd rather have one #1 or #2 pick in what is said to be a strong draft than two #7's in 20-17 and 2018 and hence my desire to try to trade for Lopez to improve Boston and to give the Nets the green light to tear their team down.
Personally I think it would be great for the Celtics on every front, but we can focus on just the 2017 pick. We saw how just shutting down Lopez and Young a few games gave us the 3rd pick instead of the 4th pick. The Nets had a ton happen that hurt their record. If they can overpay for say Lin or somebody they don't have to get anywhere near the playoffs to affect the Celtics chances of getting a franchise player. At the same time the Nets could look forward to that type of player in 2018 - the player that would not be there for the Celtics in 2018 because the Nets would be changing direction.

Thing is guys like Lin and Bazemore are not going to accept 1 or 2 year deals. They want that 4 year deal and guaranteed money. So are the Nets willing to delay their tank/rebuild for 2 years after they stop giving picks to the Celtics just so they gave a lesser pick over to us in 2017? I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility but it would be incredibly stupid.

I am really hoping that there are reasons NO ONE wants to come to the Nets and I'm worried about them overpaying or even people saying they will do a Durant type deal -one year + a player option to take advantage of the increased salary cap. We are SO underestimating their ability to wreck things in terms of say a top 5 pick. It is amazing how so many people in this forum talk about "Top 5 pick" as if it is a new word in the dictionary and believe the odds are the same they will get one if they keep Lopez and Young and try to cobble the next seasons together.
There are just so many benefits to such a trade it isn't funny.

Because Lopez and Young aren't that good. It's really that simple

[165bows]

Look around them in the standings. Bucks, Magic, Knicks, Nuggets, Kings; they aren't passing these teams without massive improvement and more good health luck with Brook. These are teams that can be expected to improve organically without having to rely on the prayer of drawing relevant free agent talent (in the worst offseason ever to have to rely on relevant free agent talent). Pelicans had brutal health luck all season and easily stayed ahead of the Nets. Suns had injuries + insanity and still beat them out. Lakers could see a big improvement if Jim Buss gets desperate. Everyone is going to be overpaying, and almost everyone has the advantage over Brooklyn of not currently being a dumpster fire. If Jeremy Lin is the best they can hope for, we're already in great shape.

Hard to know the inner workings of the mind of a Russian bureaucrat but it also wouldn't surprise me if Prok wouldn't be all that keen on signing checks knowing that filling up the salary cap would barely improve the team's short-term ceiling and long-term outlook.

He could also just as easily decide he wants to sell and empty the roster of long-term commitments entirely.

It's not very fancy but their best chance at significant improvement IMO is just improve the bench and get rid of the real negative performers, Bargnani, Johnson was awful to start the year, etc.

That is the real low hanging fruit, just not having guys that are terrible rather than salvation from signing some mid tier difference maker in FA. I think it's possible to move up a tier (ie, bottom five to second group of five from the bottom) but they have got a lot of work to do.

So not actually getting good just having parts that are less bad. But that to me is balanced against chance of injury or trade of Lopez/Young.

[Slartibartfast]

Look around them in the standings. Bucks, Magic, Knicks, Nuggets, Kings; they aren't passing these teams without massive improvement and more good health luck with Brook. These are teams that can be expected to improve organically without having to rely on the prayer of drawing relevant free agent talent (in the worst offseason ever to have to rely on relevant free agent talent). Pelicans had brutal health luck all season and easily stayed ahead of the Nets. Suns had injuries + insanity and still beat them out. Lakers could see a big improvement if Jim Buss gets desperate. Everyone is going to be overpaying, and almost everyone has the advantage over Brooklyn of not currently being a dumpster fire. If Jeremy Lin is the best they can hope for, we're already in great shape.

Hard to know the inner workings of the mind of a Russian bureaucrat but it also wouldn't surprise me if Prok wouldn't be all that keen on signing checks knowing that filling up the salary cap would barely improve the team's short-term ceiling and long-term outlook.

He could also just as easily decide he wants to sell and empty the roster of long-term commitments entirely.

It's not very fancy but their best chance at significant improvement IMO is just improve the bench and get rid of the real negative performers, Bargnani, Johnson was awful to start the year, etc.

That is the real low hanging fruit, just not having guys that are terrible rather than salvation from signing some mid tier difference maker in FA. I think it's possible to move up a tier (ie, bottom five to second group of five from the bottom) but they have got a lot of work to do.

So not actually getting good just having parts that are less bad. But that to me is balanced against chance of injury or trade of Lopez/Young.

It is unfortunate that so many of their best tanking assets are gone or going - Bargs (blessed be his name), T-Rob, Brown, Karasev, maybe Larkin. It won't be that hard to upgrade that garbage, however incrementally.

[165bows]

Look around them in the standings. Bucks, Magic, Knicks, Nuggets, Kings; they aren't passing these teams without massive improvement and more good health luck with Brook. These are teams that can be expected to improve organically without having to rely on the prayer of drawing relevant free agent talent (in the worst offseason ever to have to rely on relevant free agent talent). Pelicans had brutal health luck all season and easily stayed ahead of the Nets. Suns had injuries + insanity and still beat them out. Lakers could see a big improvement if Jim Buss gets desperate. Everyone is going to be overpaying, and almost everyone has the advantage over Brooklyn of not currently being a dumpster fire. If Jeremy Lin is the best they can hope for, we're already in great shape.

Hard to know the inner workings of the mind of a Russian bureaucrat but it also wouldn't surprise me if Prok wouldn't be all that keen on signing checks knowing that filling up the salary cap would barely improve the team's short-term ceiling and long-term outlook.

He could also just as easily decide he wants to sell and empty the roster of long-term commitments entirely.

It's not very fancy but their best chance at significant improvement IMO is just improve the bench and get rid of the real negative performers, Bargnani, Johnson was awful to start the year, etc.

That is the real low hanging fruit, just not having guys that are terrible rather than salvation from signing some mid tier difference maker in FA. I think it's possible to move up a tier (ie, bottom five to second group of five from the bottom) but they have got a lot of work to do.

So not actually getting good just having parts that are less bad. But that to me is balanced against chance of injury or trade of Lopez/Young.

It is unfortunate that so many of their best tanking assets are gone or going - Bargs (blessed be his name), T-Rob, Brown, Karasev, maybe Larkin. It won't be that hard to upgrade that garbage, however incrementally.

I read somewhere Larkin was opting in. Not sure if that is definite (or is enough to keep him from the chopping block regardless). The cap increase hits them at exactly the worst time, really unreal.

[ConstableGeneva]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/seancooper_2/status/738557222729461760[/tweet]

Shane Larkin is opting out of his final year with the Nets. No final word yet on Robinson and Ellington.

[rickrolled]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/seancooper_2/status/738557222729461760[/tweet]

Shane Larkin is opting out of his final year with the Nets. No final word yet on Robinson and Ellington.

I think they're going to struggle to keep their F.A, dont even have bird rights I believe on guys like larkin,ellington,robinson etc. Even with capspace, dont think they'll use it on those guys.

[CelticsLV]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/seancooper_2/status/738557222729461760[/tweet]

Shane Larkin is opting out of his final year with the Nets. No final word yet on Robinson and Ellington.

I think they're going to struggle to keep their F.A, dont even have bird rights I believe on guys like larkin,ellington,robinson etc. Even with capspace, dont think they'll use it on those guys.

Their fan base is popping champagne by getting rid of those scrubs.

[celtxman]

Thing is guys like Lin and Bazemore are not going to accept 1 or 2 year deals. They want that 4 year deal and guaranteed money. So are the Nets willing to delay their tank/rebuild for 2 years after they stop giving picks to the Celtics just so they gave a lesser pick over to us in 2017? I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility but it would be incredibly stupid.

I am really hoping that there are reasons NO ONE wants to come to the Nets and I'm worried about them overpaying or even people saying they will do a Durant type deal -one year + a player option to take advantage of the increased salary cap. We are SO underestimating their ability to wreck things in terms of say a top 5 pick. It is amazing how so many people in this forum talk about "Top 5 pick" as if it is a new word in the dictionary and believe the odds are the same they will get one if they keep Lopez and Young and try to cobble the next seasons together.
There are just so many benefits to such a trade it isn't funny.

Because Lopez and Young aren't that good. It's really that simple

Yawn

[celtxman]

I don't think Ainge trades that 2017 Nets pick unless it makes the Celtics instant contenders.

Matter of fact I don't think Ainge can trade the pick swap at all.

The pick will be in the same kind of limbo that it was this past year - the Celtics and other teams will want to know what they are getting and how the next crop of players is rounding out. You can only put "TBD" in regards to the value of that pick - Ainge will be reluctant to trade it and others will be reluctant to give up too much. The clock on these picks really only starts when the ping pong balls fall, but even then people want to see how the players look in workouts.

[Jingles]

In the prime of his career Thad Young has been a 5 star tank commander for three different teams in three consecutive seasons. One of the most impressive streaks I've ever seen.

[celticfan42487]

I could see the 2018 Nets pick not being that good, but next years it will almost certainly be another top 5 pick. At least entering the draft lottery they should be a bottom 5 team.

This is the worst year for them rebuilding. They have 0 draft assets. Their players aren't young and developing (except for that one SG that is a decent player).

And in the off season... about 65% of the NBA can also offer a max contract, and one of them has a bigger market than the Nets in the Lakers. Normally they'd at least be top of the heap in that regards but not this year.

Then you throw in the fact that this year the free agency class just isn't very good or deep... and you have very little chance or hope for the Nets to get any better next year.

And let's hope the trend with Lopez's injuries continue as that's another consistent danger that he avoided this year. So he's due.


Then on top of all the terrible chances for them to improve... they have both Philly and the Lakers looking to get out of the tank race this year and become competent teams. ATL is trying to get in the tank race if they can pull off the Teague for Noel trade but that will be hard with Paul Millsap, Noel, and Schrodeur around. And you have to expect Minnesota will be greatly improved next year. The Suns have about 4 first rounders this draft...

It's just really hard to find a team that will be as bad as the Nets next year. The Sixers probably will but that's bad because this year they were much worse. Then maybe the Lakers depending on whom they attract in free agency... they'll probably be better. And that's about it.

Maybe the Pelicans, Kings, Bulls, Hawks, or Nuggets will drop to their level. But that's pending trades or injuries. Can't really count on more than half of that list falling that far.

So at worse we're looking at the Nets being better than the Sixers, Lakers, and 2 other teams. Which would put them with the 5th worst record.

There's just very little chance for the Nets next year. In 2018 with a deep free agent class and you would have to assume the Lakers and Knicks out of the race and a first rounder added to the team... then you have to assume they'll do better in 2018 and will finally be able to get out of that top 5 pick level.

[Homerclease]

I am really hoping that there are reasons NO ONE wants to come to the Nets and I'm worried about them overpaying or even people saying they will do a Durant type deal -one year + a player option to take advantage of the increased salary cap. We are SO underestimating their ability to wreck things in terms of say a top 5 pick. It is amazing how so many people in this forum talk about "Top 5 pick" as if it is a new word in the dictionary and believe the odds are the same they will get one if they keep Lopez and Young and try to cobble the next seasons together.
There are just so many benefits to such a trade it isn't funny.

Because Lopez and Young aren't that good. It's really that simple

Yawn

Compelling arguement. I can certainly see the reason now that the Celtics should give up a top 5 draft pick and 20 million of their cap space for Brook Lopez, leader of the greatest 20 win team in history.

[celtxman]

Because Lopez and Young aren't that good. It's really that simple

Yawn

Compelling arguement. I can certainly see the reason now that the Celtics should give up a top 5 draft pick and 20 million of their cap space for Brook Lopez, leader of the greatest 20 win team in history.

"It's really that simple" and you want ME to be compelling? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Some of the best dialogs I've had are with people who disagree, but when you put nothing into your comment, you get nothing back. If you seriously want to debate it, let me know, and I'll respect your points, but at least acknowledge all of the many points I have laid out. If you just want to do one-liners we can save each other time and not bother

[Homerclease]

Yawn

Compelling arguement. I can certainly see the reason now that the Celtics should give up a top 5 draft pick and 20 million of their cap space for Brook Lopez, leader of the greatest 20 win team in history.

"It's really that simple" and you want ME to be compelling? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Some of the best dialogs I've had are with people who disagree, but when you put nothing into your comment, you get nothing back. If you seriously want to debate it, let me know, and I'll respect your points, but at least acknowledge all of the many points I have laid out. If you just want to do one-liners we can save each other time and not bother

Ok let's try it this way. Brook Lopez and Thad young led a team to around 20 wins that everyone said had no reason to tank. They have no draft picks to get better and 2/3 the league has cap room to burn with the cap increase. The two teams that finished below them have the top 2 picks in the draft, an equal amount of cap room and far more young improving talent. The teams that finished ahead of them, one was decimated by injury (Suns) the next has KAT and Wiggins and a top 5 pick AND cap room, the next has Anthony Davis and the teams after them all finished above 30 wins.

Lopez and Young aren't good enough on their own to carry the talent on that team anywhere other than a bottom 5 record. I'm having a hard time believing that signing a b or c level free agent (something their new GM said they wouldn't do) is supposivly going to push them ahead of 6-8 teams. Once again, Brook and Thad aren't Transcendent talents that can just carry a team to victories. They are 4th and 5th wheel types on a good team and likely the 4th and 5th best players even on the Celtics.

[celtxman]

Compelling arguement. I can certainly see the reason now that the Celtics should give up a top 5 draft pick and 20 million of their cap space for Brook Lopez, leader of the greatest 20 win team in history.

"It's really that simple" and you want ME to be compelling? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Some of the best dialogs I've had are with people who disagree, but when you put nothing into your comment, you get nothing back. If you seriously want to debate it, let me know, and I'll respect your points, but at least acknowledge all of the many points I have laid out. If you just want to do one-liners we can save each other time and not bother

Ok let's try it this way. Brook Lopez and Thad young led a team to around 20 wins that everyone said had no reason to tank. They have no draft picks to get better and 2/3 the league has cap room to burn with the cap increase. The two teams that finished below them have the top 2 picks in the draft, an equal amount of cap room and far more young improving talent. The teams that finished ahead of them, one was decimated by injury (Suns) the next has KAT and Wiggins and a top 5 pick AND cap room, the next has Anthony Davis and the teams after them all finished above 30 wins.

Lopez and Young aren't good enough on their own to carry the talent on that team anywhere other than a bottom 5 record. I'm having a hard time believing that signing a b or c level free agent (something their new GM said they wouldn't do) is supposivly going to push them ahead of 6-8 teams. Once again, Brook and Thad aren't Transcendent talents that can just carry a team to victories. They are 4th and 5th wheel types on a good team and likely the 4th and 5th best players even on the Celtics.

Thank you for laying out your thoughts. I just spent a lot of time typing a comprehensive answer and wound up losing it to cyberspace. Gotta copy it next time before I hit submit So I'll recap.
1.) the 20 win assessment with Lopez is arbitrary and it doesn't sway me. Lopez was also the leading scorer on a 49 win team, something Cousins hasn't even had a sniff of. Do I think Lopez is as good as Cousins? No. But Lopez has already proven he can have an important role on a winning team. There was nothing on that Nets team and nothing on the Pelicans around Anthony Davis, nothing on KG's last Minnesota team or Ray Allen's Seattle team. I'm not splitting hairs as to why one guy's losses as inconsequential and it defines another guy. Lopez has more of a proven winning record than other guys we salivate over. And to the point of the Nets losing despite trying to win. I'm sure the D League quality players surrounding Okafor and Kobe were trying to win. The Nets team around Lopez and Young was atrocious, and probably worse than the Lakers and Philly, with no coach or GM to do anything.

.



2.) I'm not expecting them to get much great in free agency. But they can nurse this thing by overpaying and giving a player option for the second year. So they pay Evan Turner $16 million per instead of $12 million. It won't take much to be better than what they threw out on the floor in the last half of the season.

3.) Somehow we have the notion that because Lopez wasn't injured last year, that the Nets were "lucky." They had nothing but turmoil from the start with the DWill trade, Johnson release, RHJ injury, Jack injury, and no real coach or GM for a good part of the season. They were a rudderless ship. A new coach and General Manager and a real direction will take away ping pong balls and positioning.

4.) I don't agree, but for arguements sake , we'll say the Nets will have nothing together and Young and Lopez will only vault them two positions in the lottery. So they'll draft #4 instead of #2. Now imagine that they don't vault over 6-8 teams but get modestly better and wind up with the 6th pick instead of #2. We're not talking about the #13 pick to the #17 pick - we're possibly talking about losing out on a franchise player. I get a kick out of the lists of teams people provide in thinking the Nets won't pass anyone. Were the Knicks on anyone's list the year they wound up with Porzingis? How about the Pelicans or Suns last year? One thing we know - there may be giddyness in January that will be replaced with nervousness and ultimately teams passing them on the way down. That situation, fortunately did not materialize due to injury and a front office and coaching staff on cruise control, this year.

5.) My wife is calling - gotta go - wish I didn't lose the first copy -Lopez coming takes the pressure off of #3 pick giving Ainge freedom to take Bender if he thinks he will be a star and not have him have to contribute next year

6.) I think Lopez will make Boston a more attractive destination for veterans

I'm sure i missed something, but in the end it will never happen. Let's hope Danny has something good up his sleeve - thanks for the dialog

[The Corey's]

Trading the nets assets at this point would be a joke.

[rickrolled]

Alex Kennedy: The Brooklyn Nets worked out former No.1 pick Anthony Bennett at a recent free agent mini-camp. He was part of a large group workout. 4 days ago – via Twitter AlexKennedyNBA

Alex Kennedy: One source who attended the Brooklyn Nets’ free agent mini-camp said Anthony Bennett did very well. 4 days ago – via Twitter AlexKennedyNBA

Word out of the Dominican Republic is that the Nets have invited two of the D.R.’s best players to a mini-camp next week at the HSS Training Center. The two are both members of the Dominican national team, which Kenny Atkinson has coached the past two years. The two are… Rigoberto Mendoza, 23 ,a 6’3″ shooting guard who has played in the D.R., Spain and Puerto Rico. Known for his explosive scoring, Mendoza has played with the Dominican Republic national team the past three years. Just three days ago, Mendoza scored 50 points in a Puerto Rican league game. He was 12-for-12 from two point range and 6-of-12 from three. 4 days ago – via NetsDaily

Juan Jose Garcia, 27, a 6’7″ power forward has played the last six years in Spain, most recently for CAI Zaragoza and Basquet Manresa. More of a rebounder than a scorer, Garcia has been mostly a bench player the last several years in Spain, but a contributor to Atkinson’s D.R. national team that has featured Al Horford and Charlie Villanueva, among others. 4 days ago – via NetsDaily

The last part kind of worries me, Horford was coached by the Nets' current coach, and it's been said he likes to move to a city with a large dominican community..now they do have Young and Lopez so idk if I should be worried or not.

Also Bazemore is a FA and the Nets needs a swingman, plus Atkinson knows him...

[Slartibartfast]

My dream offseason for the Nets:

They trade pure cap space for Derrick Rose (worst PG in the league RPM Wins last season). Splurge on Dion Waiters as his back-up/alternate.

Enshrine Bogey as starting SG. Ellington opts in as his back-up.

Trade RHJ for Shabazz Muhammad. Sign Brandon Rush to back him up.

Sign Anthony Bennett.

Keep on Henry Sims

Rose/Waiters
Bogey/Kilpatrick/Ellington
Shabazz/Rush
Young/C-Mac
Lopez/Sims/Bennett

The perfect team to give phantom hope and then collapse in a blaze of glory.

[Iguodaladon]

My dream offseason for the Nets:

They trade pure cap space for Derrick Rose (worst PG in the league RPM Wins last season). Splurge on Dion Waiters as his back-up/alternate.

Enshrine Bogey as starting SG. Ellington opts in as his back-up.

Trade RHJ for Shabazz Muhammad. Sign Brandon Rush to back him up.

Sign Anthony Bennett.

Keep on Henry Sims

Rose/Waiters
Bogey/Kilpatrick/Ellington
Shabazz/Rush
Young/C-Mac
Lopez/Sims/Bennett

The perfect team to give phantom hope and then collapse in a blaze of glory.

Part 1 of that dream would have to be Prokhorov consuming a bit too much Beluga one evening and drunk-texting Billy Kingmaker confessing he made a mistake firing him and he wants to take him back