Other Cap Use? Extensions.

[Scoot McGroot]

So, another option to use this summer with our cap space is to extend current player contracts. In order to be eligible to be extended, a player must have originally signed a 4 or 5 year contract, and they must have completed at least 3 years of that contract. A contract can be extended out so that it may max at 4 years of future salary on the contract remaining.

This summer, the Pacers will have 2 players eligible for extensions: George Hill and Paul George (as of September 25).

Utilizing our cap space, we could actually give these players signing bonuses to lower any future salary commitment. This would be an option for George Hill, as he would not be nearing a maximum salary contract otherwise. This would not be an incentive for Paul George, as he would only achieve so much in additional earnings as he would be limited by the maximum salary. And for other reasons, this is not a realistic option to use for him, for other CBA reasons.

As such, an example for George Hill could be like this. We could sign George Hill to an extension of 3 years (since he already has one year remaining, and this would max him out at 4 years total remaining on his new contract combined) with $30m in new monies (all total, Hill would be earning $38m over 4 years, including his remaining year). The quirk is this: we could actually give him a HUGE signing bonus that would be added to his 2016 cap number, and allow his future salaries to be much lower. With this new 3 yr/$30m contract, we could actually give him a $20m signing bonus (taking him up to near his maximum salary eligible this next season of around $28m as a 7-9 year vet), and then the remaining 3 years, his cap number would actually be at around $3.3m per season (the remaining $10m of his $30m contract that wasn't already paid out in signing bonus over the remaining 3 years). Since the first year in the NEW salary/contract would not be more than 107.5% of what George Hill would be making in the last year of his current deal ($8m)...in fact, it would be lower...this would work under the CBA rules. While this would take up $20m in our cap space this summer, it could be an option if we otherwise strike out in free agency. Of course, we could do all kinds of other numbers in signing bonus so that we maintain more cap space (maybe a $10m signing bonus so that the next 3 years are at around $6m, who know).

As for Paul George, the only incentive would be that he would get to sign a new deal that would bring him up to the new maximum salary of a 7-9 year veteran, for one year,

The numbers can be moved around, but hopefully, you get the gist. Just another option that is available with our cap space.

[Pacersike]

I would love to extend both Georges and I do believe the Pacers will be left behind when other teams start their bidding wars for the good players in free agency, but I would like to know. If players like Monta Ellis and Terrence Ross can get over $10M to play for teams, why would Hill be interested in agreeing to take less, when IMO some teams could offer him money in the neighbourhood of what DeMarre Carroll is getting, perhaps even more with the new cap situation.

[Wizop]

We might not get a first team all pro to come here, but I'm optimistic we'll lure a quality starter. We've not struck out before and now we have a competitive budget. However, maximizing next year's cap room with some creative moves this year could be Plan B.

[chube]

In terms of luring the free agents, Indy will always have trouble competing with the LA's, NY's, Chicago's, Miami's, etc. even though big markets seem to mean less and less these days (which I love!)

But we've recently gotten guys like Monta and D-West and had a shot at Jamal Crawford a few years ago. Plus, we now have a legit superstar to help recruit. Are we ever gonna get the guys in Durant's tier? Probably not (I think Larry even said as much when Amare Stoudemire was a free agent), but I think we could get guys in that next tier.


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[pacers33granger]

Just looking at rough numbers we could probably do this (giving Hill the $20 mil bonus) and dump Stuckey and have still close to 20 mil in space. I'd totally be on board with this though as I don't expect us to lure someone like Horford/Conley who would actually be worth a max deal.

This could be huge for next summer. Assuming Miles opts out to get one last payday, we'd be looking at a roster of:

Hill/Young
Ellis/
PG/GRIII
/Lavoy/Christmas
Turner/

All for about 43.2 mil with a possible 100 mil cap. Say we give Ian 10 mil a year, add in our draft pick this summer, and we're still pretty much at 60 mil with roster holds. So pretty much the same team we had this year, but with (hopeful) improvements from young guys and a ton more space in a better free agent group.

[Wizop]

Not sure why we'd dump stuckey unless we sign a free agent guard.

[Scoot McGroot]

Not sure why we'd dump stuckey unless we sign a free agent guard.

Either free agent guard, guard at #20, or growth from Joe Young could all lead to Stuckey being moved on.

[Wizop]

Yes,but when. A free agent could lead to an immediate move but a rookie or Young would need time to prove more valuable than stuckey.

[Scoot McGroot]

Yes,but when. A free agent could lead to an immediate move but a rookie or Young would need time to prove more valuable than stuckey.

I think there's already a massive glut that mitigates most value that Stuckey has to us.

[Wizop]

Solo's minutes are going to someone. I would like to think GRob will be ready for regular minutes and someone new could be in the competition but I have lost more patience with Miles than Stuckey.

[pacers33granger]

Stuckey can't play either forward spot at all so there's no way he gets Solo's minutes. And Miles and Stuckey are both who they are at this point and unfortunately one simply does not fit on the team as currently constructed.

[Wizop]

Currently constructed? I'm looking for reconstruction. A month ago I thought the draft was giving us a guard but i now think the good ones will be gone and we'll get a four. If so, I see Stuckey and Young as the second unit backcourt. I see GRob as second unit three which makes CJ the odd man out.

[pacers33granger]

Currently constructed? I'm looking for reconstruction. A month ago I thought the draft was giving us a guard but i now think the good ones will be gone and we'll get a four. If so, I see Stuckey and Young as the second unit backcourt. I see GRob as second unit three which makes CJ the odd man out.

I'd personally prefer to see Young/CJ be the backcourt. CJ played SG a ton throughout his career so it shouldn't be a problem and we desperately need more shooting, not less. I appreciate what Stuckey has done for the team and what he brings, but I feel that CJ has brought a bit more and fits better.

[165bows]

So, another option to use this summer with our cap space is to extend current player contracts. In order to be eligible to be extended, a player must have originally signed a 4 or 5 year contract, and they must have completed at least 3 years of that contract. A contract can be extended out so that it may max at 4 years of future salary on the contract remaining.

This summer, the Pacers will have 2 players eligible for extensions: George Hill and Paul George (as of September 25).

Utilizing our cap space, we could actually give these players signing bonuses to lower any future salary commitment. This would be an option for George Hill, as he would not be nearing a maximum salary contract otherwise. This would not be an incentive for Paul George, as he would only achieve so much in additional earnings as he would be limited by the maximum salary. And for other reasons, this is not a realistic option to use for him, for other CBA reasons.

As such, an example for George Hill could be like this. We could sign George Hill to an extension of 3 years (since he already has one year remaining, and this would max him out at 4 years total remaining on his new contract combined) with $30m in new monies (all total, Hill would be earning $38m over 4 years, including his remaining year). The quirk is this: we could actually give him a HUGE signing bonus that would be added to his 2016 cap number, and allow his future salaries to be much lower. With this new 3 yr/$30m contract, we could actually give him a $20m signing bonus (taking him up to near his maximum salary eligible this next season of around $28m as a 7-9 year vet), and then the remaining 3 years, his cap number would actually be at around $3.3m per season (the remaining $10m of his $30m contract that wasn't already paid out in signing bonus over the remaining 3 years). Since the first year in the NEW salary/contract would not be more than 107.5% of what George Hill would be making in the last year of his current deal ($8m)...in fact, it would be lower...this would work under the CBA rules. While this would take up $20m in our cap space this summer, it could be an option if we otherwise strike out in free agency. Of course, we could do all kinds of other numbers in signing bonus so that we maintain more cap space (maybe a $10m signing bonus so that the next 3 years are at around $6m, who know).

As for Paul George, the only incentive would be that he would get to sign a new deal that would bring him up to the new maximum salary of a 7-9 year veteran, for one year,

The numbers can be moved around, but hopefully, you get the gist. Just another option that is available with our cap space.

I think extensions for current players is a really strong option for a bunch of clubs. Good thread as I think it's been a sort of underrated option.

[Scoot McGroot]

So, another option to use this summer with our cap space is to extend current player contracts. In order to be eligible to be extended, a player must have originally signed a 4 or 5 year contract, and they must have completed at least 3 years of that contract. A contract can be extended out so that it may max at 4 years of future salary on the contract remaining.

This summer, the Pacers will have 2 players eligible for extensions: George Hill and Paul George (as of September 25).

Utilizing our cap space, we could actually give these players signing bonuses to lower any future salary commitment. This would be an option for George Hill, as he would not be nearing a maximum salary contract otherwise. This would not be an incentive for Paul George, as he would only achieve so much in additional earnings as he would be limited by the maximum salary. And for other reasons, this is not a realistic option to use for him, for other CBA reasons.

As such, an example for George Hill could be like this. We could sign George Hill to an extension of 3 years (since he already has one year remaining, and this would max him out at 4 years total remaining on his new contract combined) with $30m in new monies (all total, Hill would be earning $38m over 4 years, including his remaining year). The quirk is this: we could actually give him a HUGE signing bonus that would be added to his 2016 cap number, and allow his future salaries to be much lower. With this new 3 yr/$30m contract, we could actually give him a $20m signing bonus (taking him up to near his maximum salary eligible this next season of around $28m as a 7-9 year vet), and then the remaining 3 years, his cap number would actually be at around $3.3m per season (the remaining $10m of his $30m contract that wasn't already paid out in signing bonus over the remaining 3 years). Since the first year in the NEW salary/contract would not be more than 107.5% of what George Hill would be making in the last year of his current deal ($8m)...in fact, it would be lower...this would work under the CBA rules. While this would take up $20m in our cap space this summer, it could be an option if we otherwise strike out in free agency. Of course, we could do all kinds of other numbers in signing bonus so that we maintain more cap space (maybe a $10m signing bonus so that the next 3 years are at around $6m, who know).

As for Paul George, the only incentive would be that he would get to sign a new deal that would bring him up to the new maximum salary of a 7-9 year veteran, for one year,

The numbers can be moved around, but hopefully, you get the gist. Just another option that is available with our cap space.

I think extensions for current players is a really strong option for a bunch of clubs. Good thread as I think it's been a sort of underrated option.

Yeah, there's not a ton of eligible contracts, and rarely do teams have so much cap space to be able to work something like this. But Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders had an article out and it really piqued my interest. Better to pay off our own guys and lower future outlays than to just waste money on guys we don't necessarily need, or even want, just for the sake of spending the cap, amiright?

[basketballwacko2]

Currently constructed? I'm looking for reconstruction. A month ago I thought the draft was giving us a guard but i now think the good ones will be gone and we'll get a four. If so, I see Stuckey and Young as the second unit backcourt. I see GRob as second unit three which makes CJ the odd man out.

I'd personally prefer to see Young/CJ be the backcourt. CJ played SG a ton throughout his career so it shouldn't be a problem and we desperately need more shooting, not less. I appreciate what Stuckey has done for the team and what he brings, but I feel that CJ has brought a bit more and fits better.

Who are we gonna dump Stuckey on?

[basketballwacko2]

I like the Idea of this option with Hill especially, but maybe make the signing bonus a little smaller like $15 million so we still have some room to maneuver next summer. Can you go over again the option to extend PG?

I was looking at places to send Stuckey, the Knicks and Pelicans come to mind any thoughts on who we move him to and do we have to pay? Say a 2nd and $2 million?

[pacers33granger]

I like the Idea of this option with Hill especially, but maybe make the signing bonus a little smaller like $15 million so we still have some room to maneuver next summer. Can you go over again the option to extend PG?

I was looking at places to send Stuckey, the Knicks and Pelicans come to mind any thoughts on who we move him to and do we have to pay? Say a 2nd and $2 million?

I would be shocked if we had to pay someone to take Stuckey. His deal isn't a bargain or anything, but it's fair market value at its worst and I expect some teams to want to roll over their cap space to next year (Mark Cuban talked about this recently), so he'd be a good option for that as I assume he will decline his PO.

[Scoot McGroot]

I like the Idea of this option with Hill especially, but maybe make the signing bonus a little smaller like $15 million so we still have some room to maneuver next summer.

Well, generally the higher the signing bonus (and thus, cap figure this year), the lower the cap number next summer, and thus the more room to maneuver next summer.

Can you go over again the option to extend PG?

Yeah, there's really not much of a benefit for PG. We can extend him a bit higher, and we could theoretically give him that final 2.5% of salary that he gave up originally (when he agreed to a 27.5% max, instead of the maximum 30% Rose Rule extension). And we could add another year. That's about it. Not much of a benefit for him, and I think he'd rather hit free agency sooner and then get the 30% off a much higher salary cap.

I was looking at places to send Stuckey, the Knicks and Pelicans come to mind any thoughts on who we move him to and do we have to pay? Say a 2nd and $2 million?

I think Stuckey is one of those guys we might be able to swap for nothing, or for a guy on a year shorter deal. If we wanted pure cap space, it might be a smaller market, and only after all the free agency cap space is spent and guys missed out on their top targets. However, I'm sure we could swap him to Detroit for Jodie Meeks, or Charlotte for Spencer Hawes, both of which I would do in a second. Both of those guys have one year shorter on their contracts, and would be expiring, while Stuckey has a player option for a 2nd year.

[basketballwacko2]

I'd say as for Stuckey, if we can find a team that needs a combo guard after most of the free agents are gone we might be able to move him for nothing back. Charlotte makes sense and I am betting the Knicks. If Jodie Meeks is healthy that might be ok.