The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

[rsavaj]

Watching these finals I think there's a reasonable chance Irving gets traded. That team as built just isn't working.

Would they get a better offer than Bledsoe, Tucker, and the 4th pick? They could take buddy or Murray at 4 and adding Bledsoe and Tucker to the guard/wing group is a much better defensive group.

I'd do it from the suns perspective because Irving is such an offensive talent and I'd be curious to see him paired with booker. But man is his defense concerning. He looks disinterested and really gets picked on by the good smart teams.

If you get Kyrie you have to hope Booker becomes a neutral on defense and then pair them with strong defenders in the frontcourt.

My concern with Kyrie is that he really seems like a bit of a ball hog. Not sure if he's the right guy but he's young and he's talented, and we need talent.

[JMac1]

Watching these finals I think there's a reasonable chance Irving gets traded. That team as built just isn't working.

Would they get a better offer than Bledsoe, Tucker, and the 4th pick? They could take buddy or Murray at 4 and adding Bledsoe and Tucker to the guard/wing group is a much better defensive group.

I'd do it from the suns perspective because Irving is such an offensive talent and I'd be curious to see him paired with booker. But man is his defense concerning. He looks disinterested and really gets picked on by the good smart teams.

If you get Kyrie you have to hope Booker becomes a neutral on defense and then pair them with strong defenders in the frontcourt.

My concern with Kyrie is that he really seems like a bit of a ball hog. Not sure if he's the right guy but he's young and he's talented, and we need talent.

Lets draft the new talent. Lets drive the new car and see how it handles, we have seen how the old car handles.

Rsavaj: Patience.

Bledsoe, Booker, and George is beasty! I do like the Bender Baldwin draft too. Going to study up more on Baldwin.

[Qwigglez]

Since Booker is the closest thing to a future star, this is why i keep advocating having a lineup that is like:

Defense&3Pointer/Booker/Defense&Shooting/Defense&Rebounds/Defense&Rebounds

So if this is the case then we should be good with a healthy Bledsoe, Tucker starting, and Chandler also starting. Our gaping hole is of course at the 4. If we trade Knight/#4 for Okafor, that starting lineup doesn't look half bad with a good mixture of offense and defense. Would prefer, at that point to try and sign Batum so he can start and have Tucker come off the bench.
Bled/Book/Batum/Okafor/Chandler
Baldwin/Archie/Warren/Tucker/Len

Still not sure if that gets us in the playoffs unless Book continues to score 20 PPG while Bledsoe is back, Bledsoe plays like he did last year before the injury, Okafor improves defensively, Warren lights it up off the bench, while Len take over as starter towards the end of the year because of his consistency throughout the year. A lot has to go right in order for us to sniff the playoffs.

[NTB]

Tucker should never be in the same lineup with non-shooting big men. Tucker's 3pt shooting is so limited I don't even consider him as a shooting threat anymore. If we get Okafor, our wings need to shoot very well, which I am not also sure for TJ Warren even he developed his 3pt shooting.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Watching these finals I think there's a reasonable chance Irving gets traded. That team as built just isn't working.

Would they get a better offer than Bledsoe, Tucker, and the 4th pick? They could take buddy or Murray at 4 and adding Bledsoe and Tucker to the guard/wing group is a much better defensive group.

I'd do it from the suns perspective because Irving is such an offensive talent and I'd be curious to see him paired with booker. But man is his defense concerning. He looks disinterested and really gets picked on by the good smart teams.

If you get Kyrie you have to hope Booker becomes a neutral on defense and then pair them with strong defenders in the frontcourt.

My concern with Kyrie is that he really seems like a bit of a ball hog. Not sure if he's the right guy but he's young and he's talented, and we need talent.

Getting kyrie would certainly be a gamble, there's a chance he's a good stats on a bad team guy. I'd still be willing to roll the dice if all it took was Bledsoe and the 4th pick (which I don't love any option). My thought process is the suns need to take chances to build a core and even though Irving is flawed he's still only 24 and is really talented.

[MathiasPW]

The 2016 Phoenix Buns: Bledsoe Booker Butler Bender and Byombo.

Bogdanovic and Bolomboy off the bench.

Now tell me that's not a good team.

[rsavaj]

The 2016 Phoenix Buns: Bledsoe Booker Butler Bender and Byombo.

Bogdanovic and Bolomboy off the bench.

Now tell me that's not a good team.

lol I don't think we'd be able to get Butler without including the pick that becomes Bender

but I like the "B" theme...a Bender/Baldwin/Bembry first round would make me happy on draft night

[WeekapaugGroove]

It's interesting when you look at love and kyrie defensively. With love it makes sense he's a bad defender. Physically he just doesn't have the length and athleticism to be great on that side of the ball. Now he could be better by being more aware and frankly tougher but no matter what he would always be a negative.

Kyrie is different because he actually has the size and athleticism to hang with other pgs. For him it comes down to lack of desire and awareness. I'm not saying he should be avery Bradley but there's really no excuse for him not being at least passable on that side of the ball.

[letsgosuns]

At this point, I see no reason why the Suns should trade the 4th pick. The team sucks and is so far away from competing for a championship that the only reasonable route is building through the draft. Top free agents do not sign with horrible teams like the Suns. There is a reason why the Suns are picking 4th and it is not because of injuries to Bledsoe and Knight. The Suns were 12-19 when both of them were still healthy last year. They are picking 4th because they are legitimately one of the worst teams in basketball. Just keep the pick and get the best player you can.

[Djedefre]

Yeah. We shouldn‘t really rush things. If a guy like George is attainable, then it would be foolish to miss that opportunity, but other than that patience is the key. No instant solutions and desperate moves. Let‘s take advantage of being bad, like so many before us did.

[jcsunsfan]

At this point, I see no reason why the Suns should trade the 4th pick. The team sucks and is so far away from competing for a championship that the only reasonable route is building through the draft. Top free agents do not sign with horrible teams like the Suns. There is a reason why the Suns are picking 4th and it is not because of injuries to Bledsoe and Knight. The Suns were 12-19 when both of them were still healthy last year. They are picking 4th because they are legitimately one of the worst teams in basketball. Just keep the pick and get the best player you can.

Yes it is. They would easily be picking in the teens if it were not for those injuries. But I do agree with you. No need to trade that pick unless some really unusual opportunity comes along.

[bwgood77]

Bottom line is I think Cleveland has to make a move. There isn't a more win now situation in sports than that team and I just don't see how this current team has a shot at beating the Warriors or thunder next year, they are both just horrible matchup for that roster.

I don't know. Cleveland swept OKC this year, and beat them 115-92 in OKC.

I think LeBron may blame someone and they might make a move, but the point is, since both Kyrie and Love can spread the floor, when their offense is clicking, it makes them nearly impossible to beat (see first three rounds).

The team is so deep they can always go with more of a defensive lineup too with Dellavedova, Shumpert, JR Smith (who has become better defensively), LeBron and Thompson (or Mozgov), or even play big with Thompson and Mozgov and take Smith out but this doesn't leave for good spacing.

GS is just too good. You can do all you want to try to make changes to your team to try and beat them, but they did have the best record in history so it's likely a losing proposition.

[bwgood77]

^I think it's more realistic that they trade Love.

I think they might look to move both. I really wonder what kind of value love has right now. He's kind of been exposed the past two years. I don't think I'd do the above deal for love. I bet they wish they had never done the Wiggins trade.

Heck I'm not sure how teams even view kyrie anymore with how awful he's been defensively and how iso ball heavy on o. I do think he would fetch a bigger package than love and that's a reason he might be more likely to get traded. He might even fetch a better deal than I mentioned but probably a ton better.

I really don't think they can keep that team together.

I don't think they regret the Wiggins trade; Bron is past his prime and has a short window to win another ring, and they've been to the Finals twice in a row now.

They would be really well-served to trade him for quality depth though.

And if they could trade Kyrie for Chris Paul, they'd be dangerous.

Speaking about trades, I was wondering what things would look like now had GS traded Klay Thompson for Love.

[bwgood77]

I'd love Bledsoe - Booker - George trio.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of us would. Or you can put Durant, Towns, AD, and a number of others in there. It'd be great.

[saintEscaton]

Kyrie is a passable on ball defender, but he gets lulled to sleep too easily and will often get burnt by a back door cut or runs straight square into a pick. When he's engaged he hustles after loose balls and forces deflections but he's just doesn't know how to take the right angle funneling help and doesn't communicate to his bigs when the ball is getting rotated over weakside

[NTB]

I'd love Bledsoe - Booker - George trio.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of us would. Or you can put Durant, Towns, AD, and a number of others in there. It'd be great.

Actually, I'd prefer Bledsoe - Booker - George over other names that you put.

[saintEscaton]

I'd love Bledsoe - Booker - George trio.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of us would. Or you can put Durant, Towns, AD, and a number of others in there. It'd be great.

The talent disparity between conferencse is whack. George is the only other Top 10 player/ potential MVP candidate besides Bron in teh East, hhe's going nowhere

[bwgood77]

I'd love Bledsoe - Booker - George trio.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of us would. Or you can put Durant, Towns, AD, and a number of others in there. It'd be great.

The talent disparity between conferencse is whack. George is the only other Top 10 player/ potential MVP candidate besides Bron in teh East, hhe's going nowhere

I know. That was kind of my point.

[bwgood77]

I'd love Bledsoe - Booker - George trio.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of us would. Or you can put Durant, Towns, AD, and a number of others in there. It'd be great.

Actually, I'd prefer Bledsoe - Booker - George over other names that you put.

Yeah, I love George. He's one of my favorite players. I don't know if I'd prefer him over Towns, but I can see the others, particularly for injury concerns. Not as concerned with George's injury since it was just a broken leg. The others were or are nagging issues and surgeries and stuff. George is basically Kawhi of the east.

If you look at George and Kawhi's side by side stats of this year, both being their 5th year in the league, they are very similar. http://bkref.com/tiny/pTCiE

[TeamTragic]

Ive said it for years now, i wouldnt touch Love with a 10 foot pole.

As for my take on Cleveland (even OKC), its this:

When you have a top 5 player like Lebron, you cant have a normal team. The reason Love is failing so badly is because he doesnt know his role. Its not his fault because his skillset isnt that which fits the role. Lebron is a ball dominant player. to be his most effective, he needs the ball (Just like Kobe did, Just like Jordan did). Just like the old Lakers and Bulls, they didnt need a star offensive PG because their ball dominant star played other positions (Kobe and Jordan both at SG, Lebron and Durant at SF). You need to surround them with DEFENDERS. The difference between when Lebron won with Miami and him now losing with Cleveland is the teams skillsets. Bosh knew his role and his skillset matched. He was there mostly to DEFEND and REBOUND. Love is not a defender. He is an offense based player. Every shot Love takes takes a shot away from Lebron, and honestly, id rather have Lebron try to score than Love.

I think if Cleveland would replace Love with an Ibaka type PF, it would be a MAJOR improvement. Sure, he isnt going to score as much as Love, but thats not what they need him to do, the just need him to defend and rebound. Irving is the same thing. In Miami they had Mario FREAKIN' Chalmers as their starting PG. He wasnt there to score or take over the ball handling, he was there for defense. He was strictly a 3&D player. Once again, the more the ball was in his hands the less it was in the hands of one of the best players in the league. Just like Love, Irving is an offensive player. He is great at scoring, specially of the ISO, but thats not what they need from him, they need a defender. Now Miami did also have Wade. While being an offensive player, he also played decent defense. But you also have to remember during that time Wade was also a top 5 player. If the ball wasnt in Lebrons hands, it was in Wades, and once again he was being surrounded by defenders (Including Lebron).

With GS, Curry is the star. He is surrounded by defenders. While Thompson wasnt known for being a defender, his size advantage over most SG's (6'7 compared to the 6'5 average) and long wingspan help him immensely. Iggy is a defender. He is kinda a jack of all trades, but if you had to point out what he is best at, i'd say his defense. Green? Undersized PF/C, but a top notch defender. Just like Thompson/Iggy, a 3&D player. Bogut? Horrible at scoring, thats why he averages only 3-4 attempts per game, but once again you can see that he knows thats not his role, his role is being a defender and rebounder. Barnes is what he is. He is a lackluster defender (Has really stepped up his defense in the post season), he can hit the occasional 3 ball, and maybe score a few points here and there. There was a reason the pulled him out of the starting lineup in the series against OKC, and its the same reason i think GS is fine with losing him in FA nad finding a player with a better fit.

What im getting at is DEFENSE is the key to winning. Surround your best player with defenders. Cleveland is losing because of 2 major holes at PG & PF and the team cant cover them. OKC was much closer because the elected to start Addams (Defense and Rebounds) over the much higher scoring and higher paid Kanter. The elected to start Andre Roberson (Defense) over the higher scoring/higher paid non-defending Waiters and Morrow. Both Addams and Roberson KNEW THEIR ROLES and did all they were asked, DEFEND AND REBOUND.

Anyone seeing a common theme here?

Cleveland went with Love because that was their best option. It has technically worked out fine until the Finals where you actually have to play defense. Love is soft and injury prone after a long season/playoff run. He doesn't really play defense and that is why we never pulled the trigger on that Kieff trade for him.

The East has improved and that is why Lebron pushed hard for all those ridiculous contracts not to mention most likely facing the Warriors in the Finals again after that 73 win season.

Love has really low value right now and honestly I would rather utilize our picks this upcoming draft. We are probably looking at a top 5 pick next season with developed younger players. No doubt that this offseason we need to move some guys.