BOS-NYK-CLE-LAC (you guessed it)

[patman52]

Well NY gets out from under Carmelo's contract - that is a big plus for them
Boston gets love for the 3 and a 2020 pick for the 23rd pick this year- If this didn't have lottery protection I would consider it even, waiting 3 years to cash in requires something. And I don't know if Love is worth the 3rd anymore. Whether it is the role he is playing or what I don't know.
Cavs- go all in for the last 3 years of LBJ, Paul and Melo, I don't like this at all for them. All three could break down at the same time due to age and will most likely do so over the next three years.
Clippers- I like it for the clippers, While Kelly will be a RFA he should not attract a great number of suitors so his abilty to move on is minimized. While it is a down grade from Paul to Irving, Paul's game will most likely degrade over time due to his age and Irvingis signed long term.

Good for the Clippers and NY, As a Boston fan I am not thrilled with it but is certainly is not the end of the world, Cleveland - it is just too risky taking on those players at their ages. Plus they take on a bunch of salary that does not even include the trade kickers

Getting out of carmelo's contract is not a bonus for NY. Why? Even if they planned on tanking you dont give your best player away for a pick in the 20's.

Carmelo is great value. This trade idea reaks of stupidity

I think the down side of Melo degrading as the last three years go on puts him and his 24,26 and 28mill salaries as a negative on a team that will be built around KP. but It is only my opinion.

[gom]

Carmelo Anthony is 32 years old, not 60 years old. This he's done and/or the Knicks want to get rid of him and rebuild is getting carried away.

Also...Kevin Love has looked more toasted than Anthony and Love can get a top 3 pick?

The Knicks reportedly may be close in buying a late 1st round pick from Phoenix (would be the 28th pick likely) for cash. How much more value does a pick 5 spots earlier (at 23) really have?

Cedi Osman? Come on. You want me to show you highlight clips of Knicks draftee Louis Labryrie? Here's a highlight clip. Maybe Knicks fans were wrong and he also actually has real value? I mean he looks pretty nice in the clips right? And he's actually been complimented by other French players Tony Parker and Boris Diaw...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC29jD_sWw8[/youtube]

And Turner is a UFA. The Knicks could just try to sign him if they wanted to.

Ask yourself...would you trade Wade (who's older and more injury prone than Anthony) for that "package"? You wouldn't right? So why should the Knicks?

The initial package is just brutal for the Knicks.

I actually like Labeyrie a lot. He has potential.

Miami doesn't control Wade's future at all, so it's irrelevant. He's a free agent.

[moocow007]

Well NY gets out from under Carmelo's contract - that is a big plus for them
Boston gets love for the 3 and a 2020 pick for the 23rd pick this year- If this didn't have lottery protection I would consider it even, waiting 3 years to cash in requires something. And I don't know if Love is worth the 3rd anymore. Whether it is the role he is playing or what I don't know.
Cavs- go all in for the last 3 years of LBJ, Paul and Melo, I don't like this at all for them. All three could break down at the same time due to age and will most likely do so over the next three years.
Clippers- I like it for the clippers, While Kelly will be a RFA he should not attract a great number of suitors so his abilty to move on is minimized. While it is a down grade from Paul to Irving, Paul's game will most likely degrade over time due to his age and Irvingis signed long term.

Good for the Clippers and NY, As a Boston fan I am not thrilled with it but is certainly is not the end of the world, Cleveland - it is just too risky taking on those players at their ages. Plus they take on a bunch of salary that does not even include the trade kickers

Getting out of carmelo's contract is not a bonus for NY. Why? Even if they planned on tanking you dont give your best player away for a pick in the 20's.

Carmelo is great value. This trade idea reaks of stupidity

I think the down side of Melo degrading as the last three years go on puts him and his 24,26 and 28mill salaries as a negative on a team that will be built around KP. but It is only my opinion.

If this was the Porzingis that many thought before the draft (years away from being years away) then you'd be absolutely right but Porzingis was arguably the 2nd most NBA ready player in the draft (Towns obviously was easily the most NBA ready).

You also appear to be assuming that the Knicks plan is to rebuild. There's been no indication that that's what Jackson is planning. Not from the start. Not now. No tanking. No rebuilding. So all this may be moot.

As far as downside Melo? I mean it could be that Anthony blows out his knee right out the gate next season at which point he'd be a clear negative from every sense of the word but he played 72 games last season and put up 21.8ppg, 7.7rpg and 4.2apg despite trying to fit in the Triangle, trying to facilitate more, recovering from knee surgery, playing with an almost revampled roster from the year before (full of low talent role players) and playing with the worst PG's (and guards in general) in the NBA. Nor as we both know is his game predicated on athleticism which should help mitigate the decline.

Is Anthony now still the same Anthony in his prime? No, he's not. Is he a superstar? Probably not at this point. But honestly some of the trades that have been proposed are just downright silly and insulting. A late 1st round pick and the draft rights to someone like Osman is what you offer for a decent role player.

[moocow007]

Carmelo Anthony is 32 years old, not 60 years old. This he's done and/or the Knicks want to get rid of him and rebuild is getting carried away.

Also...Kevin Love has looked more toasted than Anthony and Love can get a top 3 pick?

The Knicks reportedly may be close in buying a late 1st round pick from Phoenix (would be the 28th pick likely) for cash. How much more value does a pick 5 spots earlier (at 23) really have?

Cedi Osman? Come on. You want me to show you highlight clips of Knicks draftee Louis Labryrie? Here's a highlight clip. Maybe Knicks fans were wrong and he also actually has real value? I mean he looks pretty nice in the clips right? And he's actually been complimented by other French players Tony Parker and Boris Diaw...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC29jD_sWw8[/youtube]

And Turner is a UFA. The Knicks could just try to sign him if they wanted to.

Ask yourself...would you trade Wade (who's older and more injury prone than Anthony) for that "package"? You wouldn't right? So why should the Knicks?

The initial package is just brutal for the Knicks.

I actually like Labeyrie a lot. He has potential.

Good then you can trade us a 1st round pick for him.

Miami doesn't control Wade's future at all, so it's irrelevant. He's a free agent.

The point is would you trade Wade if he was under contract like Anthony for that package?

[daoneandonly]

Yes the Turner being a UFA not withstanding, the value the Knicks get back is pretty awful. Though I do agree with the hundreds of posts that Cle should look to get CP3 and Melo, at whatever the cost may be to get Lebron not only better players, but his close friends. No need for OverWaded.

[moocow007]

Yes the Turner being a UFA not withstanding, the value the Knicks get back is pretty awful. Though I do agree with the hundreds of posts that Cle should look to get CP3 and Melo, at whatever the cost may be to get Lebron not only better players, but his close friends. No need for OverWaded.

Agreed. Yes, the Cavs should be doing whatever they can do to get CG3 and Melo (for the reasons you mentioned). If they can manage to convince Boston to trade assets to get Love they should be funneling some of it (more than what the OP proposed) to NY.

[patman52]

Getting out of carmelo's contract is not a bonus for NY. Why? Even if they planned on tanking you dont give your best player away for a pick in the 20's.

Carmelo is great value. This trade idea reaks of stupidity

I think the down side of Melo degrading as the last three years go on puts him and his 24,26 and 28mill salaries as a negative on a team that will be built around KP. but It is only my opinion.

If this was the Porzingis that many thought before the draft (years away from being years away) then you'd be absolutely right but Porzingis was arguably the 2nd most NBA ready player in the draft (Towns obviously was easily the most NBA ready).

You also appear to be assuming that the Knicks plan is to rebuild. There's been no indication that that's what Jackson is planning. Not from the start. Not now. No tanking. No rebuilding. So all this may be moot.

As far as downside Melo? I mean it could be that Anthony blows out his knee right out the gate next season at which point he'd be a clear negative from every sense of the word but he played 72 games last season and put up 21.8ppg, 7.7rpg and 4.2apg despite trying to fit in the Triangle, trying to facilitate more, recovering from knee surgery, playing with an almost revampled roster from the year before (full of low talent role players) and playing with the worst PG's (and guards in general) in the NBA. Nor as we both know is his game predicated on athleticism which should help mitigate the decline.

Is Anthony now still the same Anthony in his prime? No, he's not. Is he a superstar? Probably not at this point. But honestly some of the trades that have been proposed are just downright silly and insulting. A late 1st round pick and the draft rights to someone like Osman is what you offer for a decent role player.

My take on the trade was that NY was gaining 40 mill of cap room this year. It is not just the draft pick compensation. Now you have money up the ying yang to bring in players to mature or grow together as a team with KP, and as Far as Osman, we take back the 23 and give you the 16th.

[Knickfan1982]

I think the down side of Melo degrading as the last three years go on puts him and his 24,26 and 28mill salaries as a negative on a team that will be built around KP. but It is only my opinion.

The last parts of big contracts are always tough to swallow but that's no reason to settle for the turd that is this offer. Melo played great this year.

[Knickfan1982]

My take on the trade was that NY was gaining 40 mill of cap room this year. It is not just the draft pick compensation. Now you have money up the ying yang to bring in players to mature or grow together as a team with KP, and as Far as Osman, we take back the 23 and give you the 16th.

But who cares about the $40 million we'd save. You don't trade superstars to save money especially when that superstar is still super productive. If you seriously upgrade that offer from the chump change it currently represents then we'd be willing to accept less savings.

[Jwduff]

I think the down side of Melo degrading as the last three years go on puts him and his 24,26 and 28mill salaries as a negative on a team that will be built around KP. but It is only my opinion.

If this was the Porzingis that many thought before the draft (years away from being years away) then you'd be absolutely right but Porzingis was arguably the 2nd most NBA ready player in the draft (Towns obviously was easily the most NBA ready).

You also appear to be assuming that the Knicks plan is to rebuild. There's been no indication that that's what Jackson is planning. Not from the start. Not now. No tanking. No rebuilding. So all this may be moot.

As far as downside Melo? I mean it could be that Anthony blows out his knee right out the gate next season at which point he'd be a clear negative from every sense of the word but he played 72 games last season and put up 21.8ppg, 7.7rpg and 4.2apg despite trying to fit in the Triangle, trying to facilitate more, recovering from knee surgery, playing with an almost revampled roster from the year before (full of low talent role players) and playing with the worst PG's (and guards in general) in the NBA. Nor as we both know is his game predicated on athleticism which should help mitigate the decline.

Is Anthony now still the same Anthony in his prime? No, he's not. Is he a superstar? Probably not at this point. But honestly some of the trades that have been proposed are just downright silly and insulting. A late 1st round pick and the draft rights to someone like Osman is what you offer for a decent role player.

My take on the trade was that NY was gaining 40 mill of cap room this year. It is not just the draft pick compensation. Now you have money up the ying yang to bring in players to mature or grow together as a team with KP, and as Far as Osman, we take back the 23 and give you the 16th.

But the Knicks will have roughly $30M in cap space even with Melo so it's not like theyre in need of it. You honestly think the 16th pick and a random foreign player is enough for Carmelo Anthony when the consensus on here is that Avery Bradley holds mid lotto value? come on man n

[R-DAWG]

In short Boston is willing to trade pick #3 for Kevin Love.
Cleveland is willing to trade Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony.
So why does pick #3 end up anywhere besides New York.

Knicks have more leverage than you think.

[patman52]

The reason Avery Bradley is rated that high is that he is signed for two years at a way below market price. And that Bradley's success in slowing down high scoring guards is valued the way that Liliard, Lowery, Thompson, Westbrook, and Curry are having success. He is 25 years old, so if you trade for him and extend him he will most likely remain productive thru the contract. It is not just his talent, but the niche that heplays is valued, his age and his deal.

Now Melo is a much greater basketball player, but with his kicker he will make over 85 mill ove the next 3 years. He is 32 years old and there is doubt about what kind of player he will be as he ages and the possibilty that you may be paying a 35 year old forward 30 mill dollars. That is a tough sell for a gm to explain to an owner. If Melo was getting paid Bradley's salary and was 29 you would be getting multiple lottery picks

[patman52]

In short Boston is willing to trade pick #3 for Kevin Love.
Cleveland is willing to trade Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony.
So why does pick #3 end up anywhere besides New York.

Knicks have more leverage than you think.

Well yo assume that the celts would trade #3 for Love since his time in Cleveland. If Love is moved, the Cavs will be the team inquiring
this time around.
You assume Cleveland would want Melo and not a guy like Horford who would suit the team so much better.

But this trade make little sense anyway.

[R-DAWG]

In short Boston is willing to trade pick #3 for Kevin Love.
Cleveland is willing to trade Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony.
So why does pick #3 end up anywhere besides New York.

Knicks have more leverage than you think.

Well yo assume that the celts would trade #3 for Love since his time in Cleveland. If Love is moved, the Cavs will be the team inquiring
this time around.
You assume Cleveland would want Melo and not a guy like Horford who would suit the team so much better.

But this trade make little sense anyway.

Well, Horford is a free agent, so therefore, Cleveland can't trade for him. Whatsmore, Cleveland has struggled against smaller, quicker, lineup's - not really sure Al Horford's the answer there. Lastly, we know Lebron is the type of guy who like his friends to be his teammates. So I don't really think there's any debate as to who Cleveland would prefer between Melo and Horford.

Cleveland is more than fine with Thompson and Frye manning the center position. They need to get better on the perimeter.

Side note, it's easy to blame Kevin Love, but Cleveland just isn't good enough or deep enough at the wing. More resources needed to be spend upgrading from Smith and/or Shumpert.

[R-DAWG]

The reason Avery Bradley is rated that high is that he is signed for two years at a way below market price. And that Bradley's success in slowing down high scoring guards is valued the way that Liliard, Lowery, Thompson, Westbrook, and Curry are having success. He is 25 years old, so if you trade for him and extend him he will most likely remain productive thru the contract. It is not just his talent, but the niche that heplays is valued, his age and his deal.

Now Melo is a much greater basketball player, but with his kicker he will make over 85 mill ove the next 3 years. He is 32 years old and there is doubt about what kind of player he will be as he ages and the possibilty that you may be paying a 35 year old forward 30 mill dollars. That is a tough sell for a gm to explain to an owner. If Melo was getting paid Bradley's salary and was 29 you would be getting multiple lottery picks

Avery Bradley is also an undersized 2, does not possess the skills to play point (unless playing with a playmaker like Harden), and is an average at best 3 point shooter. His contract, at $8.5 million per year for 2 years is market rate, not below market. All the players that signed big deals last year (Matthews, Carroll, Green) are better 3 point shooters and have ideal size for their position.

As for Melo's deal -what would it cost to sign a guy like Melo as a free agent in the new cap world? $100 million over 4 years? At that point your better off with 3 years and $85 million. Higher salary per year but 1 year less on the books and less total guaranteed dollars. Melo's contract isn't an issue. The issue with a Melo trade, just like with every over 30 team, is finding a win now team that has rebuilding assets.

In short, for almost the same money you pay Avery Bradley you can go out and sign Courtney Lee for free, but for the same money your paying Melo you can't sign a guy that does what Melo does. So while everything you are selling about Melo has some merit to it, he will be traded, if he's traded, for much more than you think because there simply are very few players like him.

[patman52]

In short Boston is willing to trade pick #3 for Kevin Love.
Cleveland is willing to trade Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony.
So why does pick #3 end up anywhere besides New York.

Knicks have more leverage than you think.

Well yo assume that the celts would trade #3 for Love since his time in Cleveland. If Love is moved, the Cavs will be the team inquiring
this time around.
You assume Cleveland would want Melo and not a guy like Horford who would suit the team so much better.

But this trade make little sense anyway.

Well, Horford is a free agent, so therefore, Cleveland can't trade for him. Whatsmore, Cleveland has struggled against smaller, quicker, lineup's - not really sure Al Horford's the answer there. Lastly, we know Lebron is the type of guy who like his friends to be his teammates. So I don't really think there's any debate as to who Cleveland would prefer between Melo and Horford.

well there is certainly no debate among Knick fans. What is the difference if they acquire horford as a FA or if he is traded for he will be on the team.

[spree8]

The value for Carmelo is absolutely atrocious. The #23 pick? I mean come on thats just terrible. Everyone keeps saying how bad his contract is but he is about to make the same amount of money as NIc Batum and possibly only $5M more than Bismack Biyombo.... It would start with the Bkn pick

You aren't taking into account the additional cap space that will allow New York to reconstruct its team. Do you think the team you have now is good enough to get to the finals? I do not. For what it's worth I have the same opinion about Miami. The Warriors are quite simply playing at another level. The only team that pushed them was the Thunder. Get some youth around Porzingis and add talent that fits. Carmelo needs to move on.

Although unlikely, IF the Knicks did trade Melo (after he agreed to waive his NTC) then this deal is obviously a huge robbery for NY.

I agree that the Knicks should ship him off and rebuild (again, if he agreed) but you just don't give him away for free...which this practically is.

I dunno why Cp3 would be worth Kyrie AND the 3rd pick when Melo is only getting back the 23rd pick. Instead, it should be the 23rd pick going to LAC with the 3rd pick going to NY.

[gom]

The point is would you trade Wade if he was under contract like Anthony for that package?

If wait were on a contract with 3 years remaining and $78.3M through 6/2019? Would I? Yes. Of course.

The fans won't like it because Wade is #HeatLifer, so Pat Riley probably doesn't trade him, but he also didn't sign him for $130M over 5 years. I think fans would understand that if Wade was going off for a chance to add to his ring collection, it would be ok. As I said before, there is a snowball's chance in hell that our team slithers out of the East with Paul-Wade-Anthony-Lebron-TT at the top. Not happening.

The question isn't about whether Carmelo is a good player or not. The trade proposed assumes that he is good enough to build a championship team upon, so there is no argument.

The question you should be asking yourself is whether Carmelo on the Knicks locking down 26M of your cap is a good idea or not, and if it's not, where can he be sent. Just as there is a dearth of players like Anthony, there aren't many teams that are in win-now mode. With Bosh out and Miami almost entirely bereft of assets, Cleveland, OKC, Spurs, Clippers, Golden State, Boston, and Chicago would be your best choices to dump his contract. That's not a big market for a 26M player.

Suppose you could choose between:

#16
Terry Rozier
James Young
Amir Johnson

or

#16
Marcus Smart
Amir Johnson

Would that entice you?

[R-DAWG]

Well yo assume that the celts would trade #3 for Love since his time in Cleveland. If Love is moved, the Cavs will be the team inquiring
this time around.
You assume Cleveland would want Melo and not a guy like Horford who would suit the team so much better.

But this trade make little sense anyway.

Well, Horford is a free agent, so therefore, Cleveland can't trade for him. Whatsmore, Cleveland has struggled against smaller, quicker, lineup's - not really sure Al Horford's the answer there. Lastly, we know Lebron is the type of guy who like his friends to be his teammates. So I don't really think there's any debate as to who Cleveland would prefer between Melo and Horford.

well there is certainly no debate among Knick fans. What is the difference if they acquire horford as a FA or if he is traded for he will be on the team.

They are over the cap so they cannot just sign him. And they will get dangerously close to the apron if they sign and trade for him. Going to very difficult to bring him in without letting a lot of the team go.

I also fail to see how Horford is a better fit than Melo? Cleveland is fine at Center. Is Horford better, sure, but they are just doubling down on a strong position. They need to get better on the perimeter. They need to be able to play smaller.

[R-DAWG]

The point is would you trade Wade if he was under contract like Anthony for that package?

If wait were on a contract with 3 years remaining and $78.3M through 6/2019? Would I? Yes. Of course.

The fans won't like it because Wade is #HeatLifer, so Pat Riley probably doesn't trade him, but he also didn't sign him for $130M over 5 years. I think fans would understand that if Wade was going off for a chance to add to his ring collection, it would be ok. As I said before, there is a snowball's chance in hell that our team slithers out of the East with Paul-Wade-Anthony-Lebron-TT at the top. Not happening.

The question isn't about whether Carmelo is a good player or not. The trade proposed assumes that he is good enough to build a championship team upon, so there is no argument.

The question you should be asking yourself is whether Carmelo on the Knicks locking down 26M of your cap is a good idea or not, and if it's not, where can he be sent. Just as there is a dearth of players like Anthony, there aren't many teams that are in win-now mode. With Bosh out and Miami almost entirely bereft of assets, Cleveland, OKC, Spurs, Clippers, Golden State, Boston, and Chicago would be your best choices to dump his contract. That's not a big market for a 26M player.

Suppose you could choose between:

#16
Terry Rozier
James Young
Amir Johnson

or

#16
Marcus Smart
Amir Johnson

Would that entice you?

At this point, any team bringing in Melo is bringing him in as the "final piece" to the puzzle to take the next step. I think there are really only 3 potential opportunities where Melo would waive his NTC and the team would have an improved run at the finals/championship. Cleveland, the Clipper and Chicago. LAC and CLE a potential star for star (3 way with picks) kind of move if the teams decide to move Griffin or Love. With Chicago, they can potentially move Derrick's Rose deal as part of the trade and potentially be looking at close to a max slot with Melo and Butler on the roster.

Dallas and Houston would likely be interested as well, they don't really have the assets. In the Bulls case they have the 14th pick, all their future picks and rookie scale players Mirotic, McDermott and Portits.