Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[pcbothwel]

Jordan and Whiteside are basically identical. Except Whiteside is a year younger, a better shot blocker, scorer, and FT shooter. Jordan doesnt turn it over as much, but he also never gets the ball in positions to turn it over. I think if you give Whiteside CP3 and you give Jordan Dragic, then Whiteside blows him out of the water.

And from a personality/chemistry POV, I understand that Whiteside has some concern. But Jordan has Dwight Howard written all over him (Immature in child like way, wants to be loved, indecisive and swayed by emotion, etc.).

I dont mind kicking the tires on a trade, but Whiteside would be much higher on my list.

[fishercob]

Jordan and Whiteside are basically identical. Except Whiteside is a year younger, a better shot blocker, scorer, and FT shooter. Jordan doesnt turn it over as much, but he also never gets the ball in positions to turn it over. I think if you give Whiteside CP3 and you give Jordan Dragic, then Whiteside blows him out of the water.

And from a personality/chemistry POV, I understand that Whiteside has some concern. But Jordan has Dwight Howard written all over him (Immature in child like way, wants to be loved, indecisive and swayed by emotion, etc.).

I dont mind kicking the tires on a trade, but Whiteside would be much higher on my list.

The problem with Whiteside is there will be intense competition for his services. If you can work a deal for DAJ, he's under contract.

[pcbothwel]

I somewhat agree with you, but we do have a great selling point in Wall. Having a pure floor general PG with elite vision is so important for bigmen who heavily rely on lobs/PnR.
He wont want a rebuild, so Miami, Philly, and LAL are out. Boston and Dallas might catch his eye, though Dallas looks a little lost in their direction. Houston seems terrible as a fit (See Howard, Dwight with Harden).

I just dont see many matches for him. He grew up in NC and went to College in WV, so we're close to home. And besides Wall being the perfect PG to fit him with, we also need a C to give us some offense. That would be music to Whitesides ears.

[Dat2U]

Jordan and Whiteside are basically identical. Except Whiteside is a year younger, a better shot blocker, scorer, and FT shooter. Jordan doesnt turn it over as much, but he also never gets the ball in positions to turn it over. I think if you give Whiteside CP3 and you give Jordan Dragic, then Whiteside blows him out of the water.

And from a personality/chemistry POV, I understand that Whiteside has some concern. But Jordan has Dwight Howard written all over him (Immature in child like way, wants to be loved, indecisive and swayed by emotion, etc.).

I dont mind kicking the tires on a trade, but Whiteside would be much higher on my list.

I would be far more interested in DeAndre Jordan. Partly from the personality/chemistry POV but mostly because of the wide gap defensively. Whiteside may be a better weak side shot blocker but his pick & roll defense has been a constant issue for Miami coaches. Jordan is much more consistent with his effort & willingness to show hard on the ball-handler & recover quickly to cover the post defender.

I just can't imagine what the Clippers would take to make a trade like that happen. I'd give up anything outside of Wall for Jordan. I know Rivers is a brutal GM like Grunfeld so anything is possible.

[payitforward]

Brutal GM or not, I can't see Rivers trading DeAndre Jordan.

As to giving "anything outside of Wall," what do we have outside of Wall that could possibly interest Rivers even at his most brutal? Unless maybe you're thinking he could be persuaded to do something involving Beal along w/ maybe Gortat? I guess that's a possible scenario.

Problem is that we don't really have a roster exactly. I.e. make that trade and we have 5 guys in total and are so far away from being a good team that it hardly helps to have Jordan.

IOW, when you have nothing to trade, it's hard to improve via a trade.

It's instructive to look back at the '08 draft. If you track the moves Houston made that day, it becomes obvious that for our #18 pick, we should have been able to wind up w/ Batum, Jordan and Mario Chalmers -- and I was calling for that at the time. I thought all 3 of those guys were tremendous prospects.

[verbal8]

^ Building on that, add in my Beal+Morris for Love+Shumpert idea (maybe also include Satoransky) then maybe sign a guy like Batum...

I am sure Boston(among others) will offer a lot more than that for Love.

[keynote]

For discussion:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/740957858607431680[/tweet]

[dangermouse]

I'd rather keep Otto. Never been a big fan of Gallinari. I think Otto can be better, he's currently cheaper.

[Pillendreher]

Asking as a Thunder fan: Any chance you guys part ways with Beal?

[verbal8]

Asking as a Thunder fan: Any chance you guys part ways with Beal?

Double S&T for Durant? - sure j/k

I think the Wizards should explore S&T options, but I don't see a good trade with OKC that makes a lot of sense. Maybe a 3rd team takes Kanter.

[Pillendreher]

Asking as a Thunder fan: Any chance you guys part ways with Beal?

Double S&T for Durant? - sure j/k

I think the Wizards should explore S&T options, but I don't see a good trade with OKC that makes a lot of sense. Maybe a 3rd team takes Kanter.

Yeah some guy on the trade board mentioned Kanter. I haven't really followed the Wizards this season....I always thought Beal was a great SG - is he really that 'bad'? I mean I know he's (very) injury prone, but other than that I always thought he was a great player. RPM has him below Waiters this season - the last two seasons he was top 25 for SGs each tho.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Asking as a Thunder fan: Any chance you guys part ways with Beal?

Double S&T for Durant? - sure j/k

I think the Wizards should explore S&T options, but I don't see a good trade with OKC that makes a lot of sense. Maybe a 3rd team takes Kanter.

Yeah some guy on the trade board mentioned Kanter. I haven't really followed the Wizards this season....I always thought Beal was a great SG - is he really that 'bad'? I mean I know he's (very) injury prone, but other than that I always thought he was a great player. RPM has him below Waiters this season - the last two seasons he was top 25 for SGs each tho.

IMO, it's a little hard still to evaluate Beal. As a catch and shoot guy, he's very good. He's shown flashes (during the playoffs) of being capable of being a lock down defender. At times, he shows the ability to take it hard to the hole and elevate.

When he plays all out, however, he's been injury prone.

He's also played in a system that hasn't made any sense. He's been asked to initiate the offense which isn't his strength. He's been encourage to take long twos which statistically doesn't make sense. Prior to trying pace n space, Wittman's motion offense consisted of two or three players simply moving around, exerting energy, wasting 16 seconds of the shot clock before getting the ball back to Wall or Beal right where they started.

My gut tells me that, as third or fourth wheel at OKC, he'd be really good. He could play within himself and do what he does really well on both sides of the court.

If our ridiculous fantasy came true, and KD did come home, I'd say the same thing about the Wiz. He'd be a great third banana to Wall and Durant.

[Pillendreher]

Double S&T for Durant? - sure j/k

I think the Wizards should explore S&T options, but I don't see a good trade with OKC that makes a lot of sense. Maybe a 3rd team takes Kanter.

Yeah some guy on the trade board mentioned Kanter. I haven't really followed the Wizards this season....I always thought Beal was a great SG - is he really that 'bad'? I mean I know he's (very) injury prone, but other than that I always thought he was a great player. RPM has him below Waiters this season - the last two seasons he was top 25 for SGs each tho.

IMO, it's a little hard still to evaluate Beal. As a catch and shoot guy, he's very good. He's shown flashes (during the playoffs) of being capable of being a lock down defender. At times, he shows the ability to take it hard to the hole and elevate.

When he plays all out, however, he's been injury prone.

He's also played in a system that hasn't made any sense. He's been asked to initiate the offense which isn't his strength. He's been encourage to take long twos which statistically doesn't make sense. Prior to trying pace n space, Wittman's motion offense consisted of two or three players simply moving around, exerting energy, wasting 16 seconds of the shot clock before getting the ball back to Wall or Beal right where they started.

My gut tells me that, as third or fourth wheel at OKC, he'd be really good. He could play within himself and do what he does really well on both sides of the court.

If our ridiculous fantasy came true, and KD did come home, I'd say the same thing about the Wiz. He'd be a great third banana to Wall and Durant.

Thx man! I think Games 5-7 against the Warriors showed that OKC really needs that wing being able to play defense and score consistently. Robes and Waiters unfortunately went 3-16 from 3 the last 3 games...Beal would fit in nicely I reckon.

So you would say he's not a guy that can handle the ball and initiate the offense? That's some thing both Russ and KD would benefit from since it would take a load off both their shoulders.

[sportscrazy]

If the Wizards swung and missed in free agency, would they consider dealing John Wall?

If so, which of the Celtics picks (their own, Brooklyn's and Memphis's) from 2017-2020 make up the talent gap between Isaiah Thomas and John Wall?

[verbal8]

If the Wizards swung and missed in free agency, would they consider dealing John Wall?

If so, which of the Celtics picks (their own, Brooklyn's and Memphis's) from 2017-2020 make up the talent gap between Isaiah Thomas and John Wall?

Can we swap GMs also?

The Wizards really have made moves(like dealing a pick for Morris) that have sacrificed the chance to acquire the pieces for a future great team vs. a chance at a ok/good team in the near future.

Does striking out in FA include Beal leaving? I think Beal is replaceable, but I think letting him walk indicates the team really would be hitting the reset button. I think the smart way to do it would be to deal Gortat first - since he will probably look better in the off-season vs. being the best player in a lost season.

[sportscrazy]

If the Wizards swung and missed in free agency, would they consider dealing John Wall?

If so, which of the Celtics picks (their own, Brooklyn's and Memphis's) from 2017-2020 make up the talent gap between Isaiah Thomas and John Wall?

Can we swap GMs also?

The Wizards really have made moves(like dealing a pick for Morris) that have sacrificed the chance to acquire the pieces for a future great team vs. a chance at a ok/good team in the near future.

Does striking out in FA include Beal leaving? I think Beal is replaceable, but I think letting him walk indicates the team really would be hitting the reset button. I think the smart way to do it would be to deal Gortat first - since he will probably look better in the off-season vs. being the best player in a lost season.

I'm not a Celtics fan, I'm a Knicks fan (so I'm familiar with Grunfeld), but since the Celtics are in my division, please take Ainge from them haha, as far as missing out in free agency including Beal or not, I guess the best bet would be if you missed out on Durant and the like, then I bet they don't match a big offer on Beal at that point if they decide to deal Wall and Gortat shortly thereafter.

[TheSecretWeapon]

IMO, it's a little hard still to evaluate Beal. As a catch and shoot guy, he's very good.

I hate to "well actually" you (well, actually, no I don't -- see, I did it to myself!), but Beal actually isn't "very good" as a catch and shoot guy. At least not last season. Among players with at least 100 catch-and-shoot attempts last season, he ranked 81st with an efg of .552 -- about the same as Wall's .554, and not quite as good as Porter's .560. Thirty players had a catch-and-shoot efg of 60% or better. Two guys (Teague and Curry) were above 70% (well, three if you want to include Troy Daniels, who played just 476 minutes last season).

The list of players ranking ahead of Beal includes:

- Jerryd Bayless
- George Hill
- Patrick Beverly
- Austin Rivers
- Meyers Leonard
- Lance Thomas
- Dion Waiters (.563 last season)

Even on catch-and-shoots, Beal isn't among the top guys.

He's also played in a system that hasn't made any sense. He's been asked to initiate the offense which isn't his strength. He's been encourage to take long twos which statistically doesn't make sense. Prior to trying pace n space, Wittman's motion offense consisted of two or three players simply moving around, exerting energy, wasting 16 seconds of the shot clock before getting the ball back to Wall or Beal right where they started.

Biggest question mark with him. The system sucked for three seasons. Last season they shifted to the New Orthodoxy of NBA Offense, and his overall performance was about the same as it had been. The only thing that deviated significantly from career norms was his 2pt percentage.

My gut tells me that, as third or fourth wheel at OKC, he'd be really good. He could play within himself and do what he does really well on both sides of the court.

If our ridiculous fantasy came true, and KD did come home, I'd say the same thing about the Wiz. He'd be a great third banana to Wall and Durant.

My thinking on Beal's role is much the same as yours. While his catch-and-shoot numbers aren't very impressive, I suspect they'd improve (at least somewhat) with greater focus on that aspect of his game. He got only 4.0 catch-and-shoot attempts per game, which ranked in the 50s.

[Pillendreher]

Does striking out in FA include Beal leaving? I think Beal is replaceable, but I think letting him walk indicates the team really would be hitting the reset button. I think the smart way to do it would be to deal Gortat first - since he will probably look better in the off-season vs. being the best player in a lost season.

That's where Kanter comes in

[Ruzious]

IMO, it's a little hard still to evaluate Beal. As a catch and shoot guy, he's very good.

I hate to "well actually" you (well, actually, no I don't -- see, I did it to myself!), but Beal actually isn't "very good" as a catch and shoot guy. At least not last season. Among players with at least 100 catch-and-shoot attempts last season, he ranked 81st with an efg of .552 -- about the same as Wall's .554, and not quite as good as Porter's .560. Thirty players had a catch-and-shoot efg of 60% or better. Two guys (Teague and Curry) were above 70% (well, three if you want to include Troy Daniels, who played just 476 minutes last season).

With Teague being that good a catch and shoot guy, I wonder how he'd do as a 2 playing with Wall. There are rumors that he's being shopped. And Atl might be a team that would really like Beal - he showed a lot of ability against them in a previous playoff series. Sign and trade Beal for Teague. Teague is a FA in 2017, so that's another reason Atl might be looking to take what they can get for him. Wall and Teague together... and a 3 guard set with Sato... fascinating.

[Pillendreher]

IMO, it's a little hard still to evaluate Beal. As a catch and shoot guy, he's very good.

I hate to "well actually" you (well, actually, no I don't -- see, I did it to myself!), but Beal actually isn't "very good" as a catch and shoot guy. At least not last season. Among players with at least 100 catch-and-shoot attempts last season, he ranked 81st with an efg of .552 -- about the same as Wall's .554, and not quite as good as Porter's .560. Thirty players had a catch-and-shoot efg of 60% or better. Two guys (Teague and Curry) were above 70% (well, three if you want to include Troy Daniels, who played just 476 minutes last season).

With Teague being that good a catch and shoot guy, I wonder how he'd do as a 2 playing with Wall. There are rumors that he's being shopped. And Atl might be a team that would really like Beal - he showed a lot of ability against them in a previous playoff series. Sign and trade Beal for Teague. Teague is a FA in 2017, so that's another reason Atl might be looking to take what they can get for him. Wall and Teague together... and a 3 guard set with Sato... fascinating.

Who's gonna guard bigger guards in that lineup? Porter?

EDIT: He's 138 for 333 on C&S jumpers over his last three seasons on 60.81 eFG%. That's 1.4 attempts per game. I don't think he would work that well as a spot-up shooter given that his jumpshot isn't that great (36.4 % from midrange on 2 fga/g; 36.1 % from 3 on 3 fga/g). Isn't Teague's greatest strength his drive to the basket?