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Let's Talk About Mario

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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#561 » by Skin » Tue Jun 7, 2016 12:15 am

Do you guys think we will get to see Mario breakout next year if we bring back Fournier?
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#562 » by magician4ever » Tue Jun 7, 2016 12:36 am

I'm surprised many are disappointed upon learning of Hezonja's absence in the Summer League. Would you rather see him lead a summer league team that has no relevance beyond its conclusion or would you rather see him carry the weight of a nation on his back to potentially lead them to an Olympic berth? I would imagine the latter to be more fulfilling to watch as Magic fans than a series of games he's overqualified for.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#563 » by Von Bismarck » Tue Jun 7, 2016 12:47 am

Skin wrote:Do you guys think we will get to see Mario breakout next year if we bring back Fournier?


I expect his breakout in season 3 but we will see glimpses of that if we trade Fournier or Oladipo in early 2017.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#564 » by fendilim » Tue Jun 7, 2016 1:02 am

I'm not worried about whether we did the right thing passing up on Turner and WCS.

Mario may very well end up to be our best scoring option, our go-to guy down the line. Every successful team has that.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#565 » by Skin » Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:36 am

Von Bismarck wrote:
Skin wrote:Do you guys think we will get to see Mario breakout next year if we bring back Fournier?


I expect his breakout in season 3 but we will see glimpses of that if we trade Fournier or Oladipo in early 2017.

I can't see teams wanting to trade for Fournier at $18-21M per year.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#566 » by fendilim » Tue Jun 7, 2016 3:03 am

Skin wrote:
Von Bismarck wrote:
Skin wrote:Do you guys think we will get to see Mario breakout next year if we bring back Fournier?


I expect his breakout in season 3 but we will see glimpses of that if we trade Fournier or Oladipo in early 2017.

I can't see teams wanting to trade for Fournier at $18-21M per year.

If there's a team willing to pay him that, I don't see why no team would consider trading for him, especially with the cap escalating even higher in a few more years.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#567 » by Skin » Tue Jun 7, 2016 3:29 am

fendilim wrote:
Skin wrote:
Von Bismarck wrote:
I expect his breakout in season 3 but we will see glimpses of that if we trade Fournier or Oladipo in early 2017.

I can't see teams wanting to trade for Fournier at $18-21M per year.

If there's a team willing to pay him that, I don't see why no team would consider trading for him, especially with the cap escalating even higher in a few more years.

Let's say Brooklyn offers him the max because they need to throw money at players in order to get them to come.... but every other team values him at less than that. Then we go on to match the Fournier's offer... Meanwhile Brooklyn signs another SG/SF in FA and fills that need... crossing them off as a trade partner...

What team would we trade Fournier to? Just because one team was willing to give him that contract doesn't mean that we'll just easily find another trade partner.

Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.

Furthermore, if we were looking to trade him with a team where we had to match contracts, can you see how difficult it would be to match dollars and value? Say we wanted to trade Fournier to SAC. Cousins makes $14M. So what? Sacramento is going to trade Cousins plus more just to match Fournier at $18-21M? The value is so off and most teams have already dumped bad contracts. So it just becomes VERY complicated.

I guess we can remain homeristically hopeful that we can turn around and trade Fournier, so my statement should not have sounded so absolute, but the fact remains is there is risk that Fournier is a difficult trade piece at that price tag.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#568 » by seeingstars » Tue Jun 7, 2016 3:43 am

Skin wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Skin wrote:I can't see teams wanting to trade for Fournier at $18-21M per year.

If there's a team willing to pay him that, I don't see why no team would consider trading for him, especially with the cap escalating even higher in a few more years.

Let's say Brooklyn offers him the max because they need to throw money at players in order to get them to come.... but every other team values him at less than that. Then we go on to match the Fournier's offer... Meanwhile Brooklyn signs another SG/SF in FA and fills that need... crossing them off as a trade partner...

What team would we trade Fournier to? Just because one team was willing to give him that contract doesn't mean that we'll just easily find another trade partner.

Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.

Furthermore, if we were looking to trade him with a team where we had to match contracts, can you see how difficult it would be to match dollars and value? Say we wanted to trade Fournier to SAC. Cousins makes $14M. So what? Sacramento is going to trade Cousins plus more just to match Fournier at $18-21M? The value is so off and most teams have already dumped bad contracts. So it just becomes VERY complicated.

I guess we can remain homeristically hopeful that we can turn around and trade Fournier, so my statement should not have sounded so absolute, but the fact remains is there is risk that Fournier is a difficult trade piece at that price tag.


This is a great post and the first of its kind to put fear into me about overpaying Fournier.... Bitter sweet
The future is bright 8-) Payton said. ``I just want to keep getting better and maybe one day I can be the all-time all assists leader for the Magic.’’
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#569 » by fendilim » Tue Jun 7, 2016 3:50 am

Skin wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Skin wrote:I can't see teams wanting to trade for Fournier at $18-21M per year.

If there's a team willing to pay him that, I don't see why no team would consider trading for him, especially with the cap escalating even higher in a few more years.

Let's say Brooklyn offers him the max because they need to throw money at players in order to get them to come.... but every other team values him at less than that. Then we go on to match the Fournier's offer... Meanwhile Brooklyn signs another SG/SF in FA and fills that need... crossing them off as a trade partner...

What team would we trade Fournier to? Just because one team was willing to give him that contract doesn't mean that we'll just easily find another trade partner.

Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.

Furthermore, if we were looking to trade him with a team where we had to match contracts, can you see how difficult it would be to match dollars and value? Say we wanted to trade Fournier to SAC. Cousins makes $14M. So what? Sacramento is going to trade Cousins plus more just to match Fournier at $18-21M? The value is so off and most teams have already dumped bad contracts. So it just becomes VERY complicated.

I guess we can remain homeristically hopeful that we can turn around and trade Fournier, so my statement should not have sounded so absolute, but the fact remains is there is risk that Fournier is a difficult trade piece at that price tag.

the best we could get was a bunch of expirings? The deal has Skiles fingerprint all over it. Even SVG was surprised he was able to land Tobias for a bunch of expirings, he mentioned that on the Redick podcast.

I dont have any problem with max Fournier. He's been a reliable go-to scorer for our team and one of our clutch guys. If guys like Barnes and Derozan are going to get the max, Fournier deserves it too.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#570 » by KillMonger » Tue Jun 7, 2016 6:13 am

i don't know if id go as far as to say fournier is reliable....i'd say semi-reliable he still goes through those 5-6 game stretches where he's playing like azz....but i agree that he's earned a sizable pay increase
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#571 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 7, 2016 12:09 pm

Skin wrote:Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.


careful with that line of thinking. I had heard rumblings that we were offered what could be considered a better package, but Skiles homed/forced in on his old players and they didnt want long-term contracts. So it isnt that what we got was the best deal, the deal just met specific criteria chosen or forced

Skin wrote:I guess we can remain homeristically hopeful that we can turn around and trade Fournier, so my statement should not have sounded so absolute, but the fact remains is there is risk that Fournier is a difficult trade piece at that price tag.


also, why sign a player just to trade him immediately? why not, you know, sign a player to keep him since he has gotten better and better every year? Why not think that signing him to a 4-yr deal, at 23, that you keep him for 4 years. Also, his contract, while high for a year, could be average after the next TV deal infusion to the cap and rising contracts. At some point, we have to spend money on players, even our own. Why is everyone afraid to pay Fournier what the league (and other teams) are willing to pay? And if you dont believe he can or will be a good player, that he could improve, then you just dont match a high contract offer.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#572 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jun 7, 2016 12:17 pm

Be patient. Superstars or even All-Stars don't always come into the league playing Elite destroying worlds. Most take time.

Kawhi Leonard's rookie season) 7.9 ppg -- 5.1 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .493 fg% -- .376 3p% -- .773 ft%

Paul George's rookie season) 7.8 ppg -- 3.7 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .453 fg% -- .297 3p% -- .762 ft%

Jimmy Butler's SECOND NBA season) 8.6 ppg -- 4.0 rpg -- 1.4 apg -- .467 fg% -- .381 3p% -- .803 ft%
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#573 » by mr2good » Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:06 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:Be patient. Superstars or even All-Stars don't always come into the league playing Elite destroying worlds. Most take time.

Kawhi Leonard's rookie season) 7.9 ppg -- 5.1 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .493 fg% -- .376 3p% -- .773 ft%

Paul George's rookie season) 7.8 ppg -- 3.7 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .453 fg% -- .297 3p% -- .762 ft%

Jimmy Butler's SECOND NBA season) 8.6 ppg -- 4.0 rpg -- 1.4 apg -- .467 fg% -- .381 3p% -- .803 ft%


I remember at one point wanting to block you haha. You've definitely been bringing valid posts to the table lately and it's appreciated.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#574 » by fendilim » Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:14 pm

mr2good wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Be patient. Superstars or even All-Stars don't always come into the league playing Elite destroying worlds. Most take time.

Kawhi Leonard's rookie season) 7.9 ppg -- 5.1 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .493 fg% -- .376 3p% -- .773 ft%

Paul George's rookie season) 7.8 ppg -- 3.7 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .453 fg% -- .297 3p% -- .762 ft%

Jimmy Butler's SECOND NBA season) 8.6 ppg -- 4.0 rpg -- 1.4 apg -- .467 fg% -- .381 3p% -- .803 ft%


I remember at one point wanting to block you haha. You've definitely been bringing valid posts to the table lately and it's appreciated.

BMP's post are like racy Playboy photos. Some may see it as provocative, some see it as art.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#575 » by Nyce_1 » Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:32 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skin wrote:Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.


careful with that line of thinking. I had hear rumblings that we were offered what could be considered a better package, but Skiles homed/forced in on his old players and they didnt want long-term contracts. So it isnt that what we got was the best deal, the deal just met specific criteria chosen or forced

any idea on what the other offer(s) were? I heard the same, that we were offered something else but Skiles pushed hard to get HIS vet guys to help right the ship. Rob decided to make his coach happy, and if you re-watch the presser from that trade, Rob looks like he knew he made a mistake right away.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#576 » by OrlandoNed » Tue Jun 7, 2016 3:26 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Skin wrote:Just look at how we handled Tobias. Most of us thought he was a valuable trade asset even if we maxed him out. Turns out the best we could do was trade him for expirings. That's the same thing as not giving him the contract in the first place and letting him walk.


careful with that line of thinking. I had hear rumblings that we were offered what could be considered a better package, but Skiles homed/forced in on his old players and they didnt want long-term contracts. So it isnt that what we got was the best deal, the deal just met specific criteria chosen or forced

any idea on what the other offer(s) were? I heard the same, that we were offered something else but Skiles pushed hard to get HIS vet guys to help right the ship. Rob decided to make his coach happy, and if you re-watch the presser from that trade, Rob looks like he knew he made a mistake right away.

I think Skiles jumped the chain of command and called in a favor with Martins to get his way. No way Hennigan made that move without his boss forcing him to. And what do you know, Skiles plan predictably failed and he quit when Hennigan wouldn't submit to another one of Skiles moronic roster requests.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#577 » by Skin » Tue Jun 7, 2016 5:29 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
careful with that line of thinking. I had hear rumblings that we were offered what could be considered a better package, but Skiles homed/forced in on his old players and they didnt want long-term contracts. So it isnt that what we got was the best deal, the deal just met specific criteria chosen or forced

any idea on what the other offer(s) were? I heard the same, that we were offered something else but Skiles pushed hard to get HIS vet guys to help right the ship. Rob decided to make his coach happy, and if you re-watch the presser from that trade, Rob looks like he knew he made a mistake right away.

I think Skiles jumped the chain of command and called in a favor with Martins to get his way. No way Hennigan made that move without his boss forcing him to. And what do you know, Skiles plan predictably failed and he quit when Hennigan wouldn't submit to another one of Skiles moronic roster requests.

There is absolutely nothing concrete to these suggestions. Did Skiles have input? Sure. Was Hennigan totally overridden? Highly unlikely. He saw things about this trade that he liked too. It would be silly to say he didn't see any pros in this transaction.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#578 » by fendilim » Tue Jun 7, 2016 5:33 pm

Skin wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:any idea on what the other offer(s) were? I heard the same, that we were offered something else but Skiles pushed hard to get HIS vet guys to help right the ship. Rob decided to make his coach happy, and if you re-watch the presser from that trade, Rob looks like he knew he made a mistake right away.

I think Skiles jumped the chain of command and called in a favor with Martins to get his way. No way Hennigan made that move without his boss forcing him to. And what do you know, Skiles plan predictably failed and he quit when Hennigan wouldn't submit to another one of Skiles moronic roster requests.

There is absolutely nothing concrete to these suggestions. Did Skiles have input? Sure. Was Hennigan totally overridden? Highly unlikely. He saw things about this trade that he liked too. It would be silly to say he didn't see any pros in this transaction.

Other than the expiring, it opened up time for Mario and Ag.

Thats probably it.

But to think Henni didnt have better deals on the table for Harris is crazy. even stan said so himself that they got a bargain for Harris.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#579 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jun 7, 2016 6:55 pm

fendilim wrote:
mr2good wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Be patient. Superstars or even All-Stars don't always come into the league playing Elite destroying worlds. Most take time.

Kawhi Leonard's rookie season) 7.9 ppg -- 5.1 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .493 fg% -- .376 3p% -- .773 ft%

Paul George's rookie season) 7.8 ppg -- 3.7 rpg -- 1.1 apg -- .453 fg% -- .297 3p% -- .762 ft%

Jimmy Butler's SECOND NBA season) 8.6 ppg -- 4.0 rpg -- 1.4 apg -- .467 fg% -- .381 3p% -- .803 ft%


I remember at one point wanting to block you haha. You've definitely been bringing valid posts to the table lately and it's appreciated.

BMP's post are like racy Playboy photos. Some may see it as provocative, some see it as art.


Best Post EVA!!! 8-)
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#580 » by Skin » Tue Jun 7, 2016 7:54 pm

fendilim wrote:
Skin wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:I think Skiles jumped the chain of command and called in a favor with Martins to get his way. No way Hennigan made that move without his boss forcing him to. And what do you know, Skiles plan predictably failed and he quit when Hennigan wouldn't submit to another one of Skiles moronic roster requests.

There is absolutely nothing concrete to these suggestions. Did Skiles have input? Sure. Was Hennigan totally overridden? Highly unlikely. He saw things about this trade that he liked too. It would be silly to say he didn't see any pros in this transaction.

Other than the expiring, it opened up time for Mario and Ag.

Thats probably it.

But to think Henni didnt have better deals on the table for Harris is crazy. even stan said so himself that they got a bargain for Harris.

Stan saying he got a bargain does not equate to better deals being available for the Magic. Not sure why you see it that way.

Did Stan see all the other offers?

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