Piston All-Time Fantasy League 1st Round : Pharaoh (3) vs. Laimbeer* (6)

[Laimbeer]

Do NOT vote or discuss in this thread until Pharaoh and Laimbeer have posted their writeups.

[Pharaoh]

Ok, never done this before but I'll see how we go:

My squad:

Big Ben 35, Uncle Cliffy 13

Uncle Cliffy 18, JYD 16, Illyasova 14

JYD 10, Corliss 18, Illyasova 10, Rip 10

Rip 24, KCP 24

BJ 32, BG 16

DNP (depending on match ups): Maxiell

It all starts with defense:

Big Ben is THE ultimate rim protector and there's not a C alive (in their prime) that he can't defend in single coverage - that allows all my other guys to stay home on their men and force teams to beat us off the dribble with inefficient mid range shots cause no one is getting to the rim with Ben, Cliff & JYD on the floor at the same time.

I've got a multitude of defenders to throw at any C (Ben, Cliff, Max, JYD, Corliss)

I've got a multitude of defenders to throw at any PF (Ben, Cliffy, JYD, Max, Corliss, Illy)

Ive got a multitude of defenders to throw at any SF (JYD, Corliss, Illy, Rip, KCP)

And you're SGs ain't gonna have much left in the tank after chasing Rip around non stop and what little they have left KCP will take that away.

Which leaves PG as a weakness for me, but with dominance at every position on D Jennings and Gordon simply have to stay in front of their guy - something simple that even they can do.

Offense might appear to be a weakness but with Rip running around screens set by Ben & JYD I don't see how he's not getting a metric **** ton of open looks - and that's butter for him.

BJ can run PnRs all day with Cliffy or Ben...

Corliss off the bench is an epic match up nightmare, especially with Illyasova & Cliffy at the other 2 frontcourt positions. Their shooting opens up everything for Corliss or Rip in the halfcourt.

And the construction of the bench works WITH Ben Gordon - he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and here he can have that

No offense to Laimbeer but I think this is a sweep! My bigs destroy any offense you thought you had inside while my perimeter rotation constantly is attacking you on both ends.

Throw in the fact that a lot of my guys actually played together! Even the intangibles are on my side!

Good luck mate

[Laimbeer]

Lots of love for the team you built, Pharaoh. They include some of my favorite Pistons. Good luck.

My first shot at this too, so this won't be much. Here goes...

Drummond 36 / Rasheed 12
Rasheed 24 / DeBusschere 12 / Amir 12
DeBusschere 24/ Buechler 24
Ford 24 / Afflalo 24
Porter 36 / Augustine 12


This feels like a very good matchup for me, primarily because they're not very big up front and have to contend with Dre and Sheed. They also don't have an overwhelming amount of offensive ability. I'll break it down by each end of the floor.


Offense

Ben needs no introduction as a great defender, but playing toe to toe on the low block with a hulking guy like Drummond isn't his strong suit. And looking at their other bigs – Uncle Cliffy, Ilysova, and Maxiell – Ben just won't have much help with Dre and Sheed. And in the very possible event Ben gets into foul trouble, the mismatch down low could become ugly. I just can't see this team well equipped to battle Dre and Sheed.

They're surrounded by sound three point shooters on the wings – Buechler, Butler, Afflalo, Ford – so there will be space and help defense would be tough. DeBuss has a solid mid-range shot as well. Porter is a very accomplished point who led the league in assists numerous times, including with the Pistons. DJ can also provide a spark, so creativity from the point won't be lacking.


Defense

There are a few shooters – Ily, Cliff, Gordon – but my perimeter players are pretty solid defensively and their bigs don't post enough of an offensive threat to demand help. Dre, Sheed, and Amir are all serious rim protectors and DeBuss was all-defense a number of times.

I also like my versatility. For example, if someone like Corliss gets hot I can throw a variety of looks at him – DeBuss, Sheed, Afflalo, and Amir, for example. The depth keeps the D at a pretty good level throughout.


Matchup Capsules

Center – Dre v. Ben, basically. Ben is the greater player, but the size difference could be an issue.

Power Forward – Sheed vs. committee, and not a real impressive one. A pretty serious advantage here.

Small Forward – DeBuss is a superb all-around player, Top 50 all-time vs. another position filled by committee. Another decent edge.

Shooting Guard – Rip and KCP get the nod here, though Afflalo and Ford will fill the 3 and D role well.

Point Guard – Porter as a league leading assist guy multiple times gets the nod over BJ.


The Laimbeers in five!

[RexRyan]

I think Sheed's versatility is the difference in this one. Phaorah has the advantage in the backcourt imo, but Lambs is stronger up front. Lambs in seven.

[MrBigShot]

I think a defender like Big Ben is Drummond's absolute worst nightmare. Dre is very reliant on size and athleticism, but he's not going to brute force his way to the basket against a guy that routinely used to guard Shaq, and Ben was one of the smartest defenders I've ever seen. He'd completely nullify him offensively I believe, shutting down whatever post up opportunities he'd get and limiting his offensive boards.

Sheed would definitely be a problem because of his range and versatility. He'd eat the rest of Pharaoh's front court for breakfast and his defensive impact can't be understated. Ultimately I think Sheed is what would keep the series close, but I think the combination of Ben anchoring the defensive and scoring from his backcourt would be enough for Pharaoh's squad to take it. I'd also like to mention that assuming we're talking about BG's first year here, he was still an extremely talented offensive player. We didn't utilize him correctly at all, but off the bench Pharaoh has the luxury of a guy that put up 21ppg on elite efficiency the season prior and could erupt for 40 at any given time and carry an offense single handedly. To get him in the 8th round where guys like T-Mac and Chucky Atkins were taken? Color me impressed.

[Snakebites]

I'll go with Laimbeer for this series which pits two formidable defenses against one another, its not a terribly easy call, but I'll explain it.

Despite Ben Wallace, I actually give Laimbeer's front court the edge here, and have some reservations about Pharoah's backcourt too. Richard Hamilton famously struggled without a steady point guard to allow him to effectively play off the ball. I'm not convinced Jennings, who we really only saw 20 or so good games from as a Piston, is the guy that can make that happen. And without that backcourt, and going up against Drummond and Rasheed up front, and a fairly formidable defense in general, I'm just not sure they'll be able to put up enough points on the board. Pharoah's team is pretty much the 2002 Pistons team, but with Richard Hamilton and no playmaking ability from Jerry Stackhouse. Rip was better than Jerry Stackhouse, but only when he had a Billups-like point guard next to him.

[Warspite]

2 very similar teams that play defense and try to score 80pts.

I believe Drummond is the decoy in this series. Its not about scoring on Ben as much as it is on limiting his help defense. Having Drummond forces Ben to stay home or be lobbed on. W/O Bens help I fully expect Sheed/Debuss (the best scoring frontcourt in this league) to be able to generate very good offense from post ups. This will force Rip to help and get easier looks for Laimbeers shooters.

Laimbeer has the best frontcourt in this league and it is going to carry him far. Pharoh might have the defensive team but can it score well enough vs 2 legit frontcourt guys that can give you 20 as well as play elite defense.

Laimbeer in 5 games

[flow]

As Ryan touched on, Pharaoh has the stronger backcourt and Laimbeer has the stronger front court. That said, Pharaoh does have pieces up front besides Ben, in Williams, Williamson and Cliffy. Pharaoh takes it.

[Pharaoh]

Honestly don't see how this isn't a sweep for me.

If I survive this round I'll be sure to change my write up to illustrate the absolute dominance of my frontline

[Pharaoh]

Seems people lost interest after the Draft so here's my rebuttal to the idea Sheed would be the difference in the series:

Looking at the rotations Ben is locked onto Dre for 35 minutes...

Sheed playing 36 minutes against Cliff, JYD, Illy, Corliss...

aint no way Sheed's gonna be locked in for his full 36 against all those dudes. He used to have entire games where he wouldn't show up! Going toe to toe with those guys (none are known to be flake out) just ain't happening.

It's far more likely Sheed gets himself in trouble with the refs since we'd be pushing his buttons for all 36!

DeBusschere is in the same boat - logging heavy minutes against a variety of fresher legs...

My backcourt is better...and my deep as the Atlantic forward rotation would just simply wear down both Sheed & DeBuss...

Jud doesn't phase me in his 24 minutes.

Amir in 12 minutes is marginalised (could have made an impact with good minutes) but in limited time he's simply delaying the inevitable

Laimbeer should have been made to close his eyes & clasp his hands before the thread begun!

[dVs33]

I gotta go with pharaoh. While sheed would be a huge problem, I think bens defence and the scoring ability of the backcourt make for a dangerous team. Pharaoh in 6 for me.

[bballnmike]

Man I would love to see Drummond and Sheed play together

[Timmaytime]

I vote Pharaoh.

Don't see an answer for Sheed but not much else offense there (not sure about DeBuss in this era, especially as a three)

Ben can neutralize Drummond's rebounding, BJ and Rip go off.

[MrBigShot]

I think people overlooked the offense Rip + BG + Jennings can give you. BG his first year here just came off a season in which he put up 21/4/3 on 57 TS%, Jennings had finally turned the corner before tearing his achilles, and Rip's best season was 20/3/3 very similar to BG's (Rip also led the league in 3pt% that year at 46%), and Corliss/Cliff were no slouches. Even factoring in the fact that what we saw from Jennings was a small sample size, that's quite a bit of offense.

Sheed was one heck of a player but he was never the type to put a team on his back offensively.

[Lionlifer]

I'm taking Laimbeer in this one. Don't think RIP will be effective on offense without a great PG (which BG and BJ are not), and I wonder where the points will come from. Obviously Ben does work and shuts down Drummond, but Sheed should feast on the other PF, and if you try and move Ben onto him, he would just go to the perimeter and neutralize Ben. I think DeBuss would get buckets as well, Laimbeer in 7 and it was close.

[Laimbeer]

RexRyan, Snakebites, Warspite, and Lionlifer make four votes.

Laimbeer advances.

[Laimbeer]

Interesting one, Pharaoh. I feel fortunate to come out of this one alive.

[Pharaoh]

Congrats Laimbeer.

I still believe my rotation would have dominated.

I guess people forgot Cliff was an essential part of us wiping away the teal era and winning 50 games?

Sheed would have struggled IMO since he's not one to put the team on his back for entire games

[Snakebites]

Congrats Laimbeer.

I still believe my rotation would have dominated.

I guess people forgot Cliff was an essential part of us wiping away the teal era and winning 50 games?

Sheed would have struggled IMO since he's not one to put the team on his back for entire games

Honestly it was the perimeter that did it for me.

You basically had the 2001-02 team with Richard Hamilton subbed for Jerry Stackhouse, and I just didn't feel that Rip would do well in a system like that. He thrived in the system we had with Chauncey Billups, and I think he needs that steady point guard playmaking to do well. There's sound evidence of this based on how he did after Billups was moved.

And without an effective Rip I just didn't think that team would be able to put up enough points on the board, and didn't think the defensive advantage was clear enough to overcome that. Replace Rip with somebody who can create his own shot and you could have taken this game IMO.

[Pharaoh]

BJ & Rip together would be gold mate.

BJ exploring all other options while Rip runs off curls and screens until BJ dishes...

I think BJ is probably the best substitute for Chauncey that you could get outta the players available

I still believe my frontline dominates.

Such is life. Not too concerned