Doctor MJ wrote:Alright question for y'all that really could be it's own thread, but I feel like those reading this thread are already thinking about this:
How good of an offense would you reasonably expect to build around a guy who prefers to play on-ball, works relatively slowly and predictably with it, and is only a scoring threat when he bullies his way from the perimeter to the hoop - which granted he is excellent at?
You can guess where I'm heading I'm sure. The Cavs' fit isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but realistically, it seems like there are just a lot of ways to disrupt a LeBronian offense right now regardless of who else is on the floor with him. This isn't to say the offense won't be great by all normal standards, but I'm having trouble thinking about LeBron's leading an offense that can really torch a serious defense.
Or to put it another way: When I imagine guys I'd love to build around right now, while rationally I feel like LeBron should be near the top of the list given that you can build an Eastern champion around him with little more than cardboard cutouts, there just isn't any part of his game that I'd be salivating to design my schemes around.
I end up thinking things like "he's going to need someone who can shoot 3's like Frye but still anchor a defense", at which point you're talking about a unicorn.
Thoughts?
The description in your second paragraph does not accurately describe LeBron's play at all in the first 3 rounds. He couldn't buy a jumpshot, sure, which killed spacing (and this was honestly the criticism I expected), but his activity off-ball was a big reason why the Cavs' offense clicked as much as it did, primarily great screens that led to open jumpers and great cuts (even if Kyrie didn't always find him) to the hoop that presented impossible decisions for the defense - LeBron catching the ball on the move to the rim, or an open 3?
Furthermore, even if we assumed it WAS true, it was the exact thing that game them a fighting chance in last year's Finals, on the verge of being up 3-0: so it behooves us to ask, what has changed since then? Golden State has gotten better, Cleveland's coach is different, LeBron's off-ball game is better and his jumper still SUCKS ASS, and the Cavs have their next 2 best players back.
Without the benefit of knowing this year's results, what would any rational person have extrapolated the results to be? Because it sure as hell ain't "an even worse beatdown from the year before"
I think it's pretty clear to me that the contrast between Cleveland and Golden State doesn't stem mostly from it's best player; it stems from the fit and talent around them. When LeBron has to give everything on defense, and his help on O can't shoot for **** AND can't defend, is it his fault games are over by the third quarter?
We know what LeBron is at this point: he creates hyper-efficient looks at the rim, which leads to great looks from outside, he's improved his off-ball game - really, something that's been apparent since 2014 Miami, but because of Kyrie's subpar decision making (at least Chalmers passes him the ball on fastbreaks, lol) he hasn't been able to showcase - his jumper is streaky, he's got great vision, etc. I don't know what passes for "salivating", but if it's "make 3s from anywhere", then no portion of Shaq's game is salivating enough to build around, either.
I mean, we've seen what he can do with Delly at the point guard, while off-ball, and his "jumper" (because I wouldn't call it a jump shot at this point - he's jumping, and there's a shot, and that's it) busted. It's not like his passes are difficult to execute - is it his fault if Kyrie can't do the same, for example?
Last year, when Mozgov was able to do basic basketball things like "catching the ball" and "shooting layups", he had a pretty good playoff run. He doesn't need a Channing Frye, although of course to put up special numbers on O, you'll need some special players.
I just don't get why we have to go through this every single time with LeBron. If you say he's killing the spacing because his "jumper" is off, and he could be shooting the ball better, fine. In fact, that should be assumed, and the first thing that should be discussed every single time when his "jumper" is off.
But if you say there's nothing about him that's appealing enough to build on O... Let's just look at a sample of what he's had to work with his entire career:
- Larry Hughes
- Mo Williams (all-star Mo Williams to you!)
- Made ancient Shaq + Z work
- made lineups with Chalmers + Battier work
- basically any 2-man lineup with him on the Heat (Allen, obviously. Wade/Bosh - though I'm anticipating fpliii here, their improvements to work with LeBron were just as important. Birdman...)
- Kyrie (huge negative on +/-, just as a reminder) AND Delly
- Love / Bosh
I will gladly listen to any arguments the PC board has: it's even convinced me that KG is better than my beloved Tim Duncan, because the evidence is almost incontrovertible. But it's hard to use all the same things I learned from those discussions, apply it to LeBron's context, and see how he's the problem here.
LAST NOTE: There have generally been two ways to build an offense: around a great post presence (kind of outdated, obviously), and a perimeter scoring threat. LeBron AT HIS BEST has elements of BOTH - he's a great post presence who can space the floor really well, and his creation from the perimeter leads to great looks at the rim, or outside. And there are no diminishing returns here - he provides everything at once, sometimes all in the same possession (there were plays where he'd post up, pass to a cutter, who passes it to the corner, ball whizzes around the perimeter because of great D, and finds itself to LeBron, whose man had lost track of him), and even when one is absent - his "jumper" - he's still just a tier or two below the greats on O, AND he's a better defender than most of them. What's not to like?
Apologies for the tl;dr: portions of the post weren't really directed at your post, but just general meandering
