The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 2)

[RSCD3_]

His stats are not good but his play is even worse than what his stats indicate. On many occasions he looks more like Jeremy Lin as opposed to Stephen Curry.

His turnovers have been a real problem since he came back

[ppedro123]

Curry's ultra efficiency is unquestionably the product of the Warriors being super talented around him. Put him on a team less talented and he becomes a normal superstar and not a GOAT peak superstar.

This.

[kayess]

People really have to stop with the overreactions lol

[bondom34]

And people really have to stop flooding threads after whoever has a bad game. But the overreactions are classic. CLE went from GOAT offense to Lebron can't run an offense and now Curry's done.

[Clyde Frazier]

Curry's ultra efficiency is unquestionably the product of the Warriors being super talented around him. Put him on a team less talented and he becomes a normal superstar and not a GOAT peak superstar.

Yup, total system player just like that other guy who won back to back MVPs.

[mikejames23]

I used to wonder who it was that shows like the First Take on ESPN catered to... and after each playoff game, it becomes abundantly clear. People really, really, want the drama.

[bondom34]

I used to wonder who it was that shows like the First Take on ESPN catered to... and after each playoff game, it becomes abundantly clear. People really, really, want the drama.

If you're going to react, why not overreact?

[Dr Positivity]

Considering Curry's numbers in Blazers and Thunder series and that Klay has been just as unproductive in these Finals, I assume this has more to do with Cleveland defensive gameplan than his health, overall though a GOAT peak should be able to break through a situation like that.

[JLei]

Almost every single post I've made in the Curry thread is he's amazing or how you best play him is blitz blitz blitz blitz.

Forces him to pass over double teams or drive into traffic. Which are his only 2 weaknesses on offense. Turnover prone passing and finishing over guys in traffic. And stops him from doing what he does best which is shooting the ball.

There's no way for him to counter by just shooting from further which frustrates the hell out of him. Since that's his answer normally to a strong show even up to the 3 point line. Bogut/ Green set an illegal screen on my man and I'll just pull further than the big showing even from 30-35 feet. When the big is flying at you and his guy is going over the screen you can't get a shot off which gets you off your rhythm and visibly frustrates him. As much as Golden State is a great team they still rely on the efficiency of Curry actually shooting vs him just creating good looks via his gravity.

Cavs funny enough have a lot of experience playing this style when they were not good defensively last year. They dropped on the pick and roll less than anyone prior to acquiring Mozgov due to personel and they weren't good. This was before they discovered how good Tristan was at this (starting Varejao lol). But this style isn't foreign to their guards and obviously Bron coming from Miami.

[Real30]

Why is he taking less shot attempts? 13FGA/g, around 2-3 attempts in first quarters, while Thompson is chucking left and right in first quarters only to make shots in second quarters.

[Shot Clock]

If Curry continues to play this bad (forget the poor shooting, look at all the really bad turnovers), then people are going to have a nightmare time evaluating his 2015-16 season. I can't remember last time someone looked so dominant in the regular season and so poor in the playoffs. People like myself who really value these playoff games over the regular season games will look back very poorly on his season whereas people who do not put as much weight on these playoff games will see it as an anomaly and still contend that he had one of the greatest seasons of all time.

Karl Malone's career in a nutshell. I never considered '16 Curry as a Top 5 peak. Borderline Top 10 would be his ceiling in my eyes. Performing like this, he drops a lot.

The difference is GS can and will likely win regardless and winning covers up a lot of blemishes.

[E-Balla]

His stats are not good but his play is even worse than what his stats indicate. On many occasions he looks more like Jeremy Lin as opposed to Stephen Curry.

His turnovers have been a real problem since he came back

Nah because Jeremy Lin actually plays defense. The Cavs were attacking Steph the whole game. JR hit like 2 3's where Curry was all the way in the paint by himself instead of guarding him and I counted 3 times Kyrie got penetration or a ton of space on a jumper from a crossover (in the first quarter alone). Curry looks like a backup PG more than a starting one right now. Livingston might need to take his minutes.

[E-Balla]

Curry's ultra efficiency is unquestionably the product of the Warriors being super talented around him. Put him on a team less talented and he becomes a normal superstar and not a GOAT peak superstar.

Yup, total system player just like that other guy who won back to back MVPs.

Reread the post. He said Curry is a superstar but his team made him look like the GOAT most of the season. Don't think anyone would disagree with that...

[ThaRegul8r]

Considering Curry's numbers in Blazers and Thunder series and that Klay has been just as unproductive in these Finals, I assume this has more to do with Cleveland defensive gameplan than his health, overall though a GOAT peak should be able to break through a situation like that.

As I was listening to people talking about the game, there are still people wondering if Curry's health had something to do with his play, so that's still being said.

[E-Balla]

If curry heats up for 2 or 3 more games and the warriors win, his stats should be good enough to justify him getting the finals MVP even though he mighr arguably play worse than last year.

It'd be a shame. Iguodala looks like Finals MVP again to me (Dray was before his very bad games on both ends yeaterday). Curry on the other hand is the worst big minute player in the series so far. Offensively he's a super passive turnover machine, defensively the Cavs seem to be attacking him (JR, Bron, and Kyrie all abused him yesterday), and in the case of Love he's missed a game (and a chance to be a negative). Curry winning Finals MVP would be a croc even if he's good the next 2 games.

[Bergmaniac]

Really weird game by him last night. Just looked completely lost in the first half. It is one thing to have a bad shooting night, but he wasn't even trying to shoot and his passing was a complete joke throughout the game.

[HotRocks34]

For the Finals, he's been bad. For the playoffs as a whole, looking past the missed games, he's been pretty good. Better than Durant, Westbrook, Green, etc.

No. Not in the Conference Finals, not in the whole playoffs. At least not through Game 3 of the Finals.

Playoffs Curry (through Game 3 of the Finals)
24/6/06 with 23.4 PER and .170 WS/48 and +07.0 BPM

Playoffs Westbrook
26/7/11 with 26.9 PER and .209 WS/48 and +11.7 BPM


Western Conf Finals Curry
28/6/06 with 26.1 PER

Western Conf Finals Westbrook
27/7/11 with 27.4 PER


So...yeah. That analysis isn't going to hold up to statistical scrutiny, it doesn't look like.


Anyways, Curry is having a tough time in the Finals so far. He had a tough time in the first 3 games of the 2015 Finals also, if I remember right. Here's how the numbers look then and now [TPA = 3 point attempts]:

2015 Finals Curry through 3 games
24/5/6 on 40/32/92 with 21 FGA/gm [11 TPA/gm] and 5 TO/gm

2016 Finals Curry through 3 games
16/5/4 on 44/40/100 with 13 FGA/gm [08 TPA/gm] and 5 TO/gm

So, what seems to be happening this year as compared with last year is the Cavs are denying Steph shots. He's simply not getting as many attempts up as he did last year through 3 games of the Finals. Including three-point attempts.

I don't remember what the Cavs' defensive strategy was in the Finals last year. But clearly this year they are working to limit the attempts and points of both Thompson and particularly Curry. And it's having an effect.

Still, Curry got himself on track last year as the Finals wore on. And there's no reason to think (except for possibly the Cavs' defensive attention on him so far this series) that can't happen again in these Finals.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold from here in the series. Warriors are still in great shape.

[tsherkin]

Western Conf Finals Westbrook
27/7/11 with 27.4 PER

Don't forget to add for Westbrook in that series: 50.9% TS, 109 ORTG and 4.4 tpg (14.4% TOV).

And for Curry: 61.2% TS, 113 ORTG and 14.9% TOV (although 28 to Westbrook's 31 turnovers, obviously Westy was shouldering a higher playmaking burden, so that's more of a dig on Steph, despite scoring obviously better than Westbrook).

Food for thought. Westbrook also worsened as the series went on. Over the last three games, he posted 45.3% TS and a 98 ORTG.

Something to consider when you're looking at a tiny sample like 7 games.

[HotRocks34]

Western Conf Finals Westbrook
27/7/11 with 27.4 PER

Don't forget to add for Westbrook in that series: 50.9% TS, 109 ORTG and 4.4 tpg (14.4% TOV).

And for Curry: 61.2% TS, 113 ORTG and 14.9% TOV (although 28 to Westbrook's 31 turnovers, obviously Westy was shouldering a higher playmaking burden, so that's more of a dig on Steph, despite scoring obviously better than Westbrook).

Food for thought. Westbrook also worsened as the series went on. Over the last three games, he posted 45.3% TS and a 98 ORTG.

Something to consider when you're looking at a tiny sample like 7 games.

Fair enough.

I wish there were more data for the series, like WS/48 and BPM. I'm not saying Steph played badly, he didn't. I just personally thought that Westbrook outplayed him.

But the stats are close. I think they are a little less close for the entire playoffs between the two. But, the Finals aren't over yet and my guess is Steph will improve as the series wears on.

[tsherkin]

I just personally thought that Westbrook outplayed him.

He definitely didn't. Westbrook had a hot game 3 and 4, and otherwise stank to high heaven in that series because of all of his dumb and ill-timed turnovers, and his wretched inability to score well. He was penetrating with great efficacy, and when he could protect the ball, he was passing really well, but he was just so violently incompetent at scoring in that series that he tanked their offense. He was taking these idiotic pull-up 3s in volume, and he's a really bad 3pt shooter. He shot nearly 6 threes per game in that series (5.86, took 41 3PA in 7 games), and that was just unpardonably stupid on his behalf. He shot just over 42% from below the three-point line, which was pretty rough as well, especially since he was taking ~ 16.6 2FGA/g in that series. He shot under 40% overall on 22.4 FGA/g, and that was a huge problem.

By game:

G1: 7/21, 33.3%
G2: 5/14, 35.7%

G3: 10/19, 52.6%
G4: 12/27, 44.4%

G5: 11/28, 39.3%
G6: 10/27, 37.0%
G7: 7/21, 33.3%


Obviously, there is more to Westbrook that just his shooting performance. He averaged 11.3 apg and had only one game under 11 assists (and it was an 8-assist game). He had a ~ 2.55 AST:TOV ratio in the series, which is far from bad, though he had 6, 7 and 5 turnovers in games, 4, 5 and 6, and then had a pile of turnovers at the end of G7. He wasn't alone in losing that series (lest anyone jump in with "why are you blaming only westbrook" or whatever other garbage), but he he was trying to shoulder the offensive load by shooting a lot more, and he's not a good scorer. He never has been. This is the first year he's been any kind of efficient in volume, and it relied heavily upon transition... and he was being a total moron in transition against the Warriors in the WCFs.

Anyway, if you look at that, outside of games 3 and 4, he shot 36% from the field on 22.2 FGA/g. That's... really awful, and represents a significant chunk of OKC's offense. Particularly in the 2nd halves of games, he was completely without the capacity to help push the lead. Durant had similar struggles, but Westy wasn't even playing 40 mpg (although he was shooting a ton and driving relentlessly, so the fatigue factor does need to be considered).

Series averages don't really tell the tale of the tape, so to speak. He was pretty wretched for about 5 games, and made a pile of costly errors in critical passages of their various losses. That hurt, and badly so, enough that it's really tough to look just at his volume averages and say "yeah, he played as well as Steph," even as we acknowledge that Steph didn't exactly burn it up at an ATG level in that series himself.