Trade Idea Thread 15-16

[SacKingZZZ]

I guess it depends on how you scale it. When Gay first got to Sac he was in a role somewhat similar to George. He shot it a little better, although there were less 3's so that effects things, and was just a tad under Georges production levels in almost every category.

George is better than Gay overall IMO he can play offense and defense were as Gay plays offense but is very limited on the defensive side .

Are we really having this discussion? Gay is nowhere near the player George is. Forget the stats and production levels. George led Indy to a 45-37 record while Gay with a much better team and players fell apart. I know the Karl thing but I cant believe we are even putting PG and Gay together for comparison sakes. If Bird wants the #8, Gay and one of Darren, Marco and BMac; it's an absolute no brainer, say yes before the alcohol wears off, call it in to league response. PG and Cousins would be incredible.

In the weak east and the year before, in a tougher east they missed the playoffs on a tie based on losing a series.

He made a difference for them this year no doubt, but they didn't totally fall apart without him.

And yeah, if Gay/8 and filler got it done of course you do that, but we can all connect the dots if last years predraft process says anything of value and that it would be hard to see how Bird wouldn't be calling about that guy Willie as well. That I think is pushing it a bit.

[KF10]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

[OhioKingsFan]

I would gladly give up Gay, WCS, and #8 for Paul George. He's a 2 way star that just turned 26 years old and is under contract for 3 more seasons. I wouldn't be able to say "YES" fast enough for the Kings.

[teerfour+40LG]

PG for Gay, 8, and WCS? I'd do it, but I can't imagine the Pacers doing it.

[SacKingZZZ]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

Neither is a legit number 1 option though because the efficiency isn't there. George is closer to one, but before you go out and relinquish most of the able bodied parts of your roster you should think about it.

[codydaze]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

Neither is a legit number 1 option though because the efficiency isn't there. George is closer to one, but before you go out and relinquish most of the able bodied parts of your roster you should think about it.

Dude, come on. PG was the number 1 option both years he led them to the ECF where he lost to Lebron in a seven game series and a six game series. Led his team to the playoffs this year as the clear cut number one option with Monta as his second fiddle. Guy was surrounded by George Hill, Monta, Jordan Hill and a rookie Myles Turner. There's no way to spin it that PG isn't clearly superior to Gay. His TS% is higher and he shoots the 3 ball at a significantly better clip. All this isn't even mentioning the vast gap in defensive ability. If WCS and 8 is what it takes to swap Gay and PG, you do it and don't look back. I'm a huge WCS fan but getting PG is guaranteed playoff berth every year with a PG/DMC duo.

[Jkam31]

This PG13 conversation is embarrassing. Visitors into the thread must be laughing at us what a joke


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[KF10]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

Neither is a legit number 1 option though because the efficiency isn't there. George is closer to one, but before you go out and relinquish most of the able bodied parts of your roster you should think about it.

Pair PG13 next to Cousins, and whatever you put around them, they are a lot closer to a PO team than we have ever try to assemble in the past 10 years. PG13 is THE GUY if we want to cross the hump with. Rudy frkin Gay doesn't have that type of impact at all.

Losing WCS is a tough blow but if it means getting a PG13-level player, you have to go through with it, imo.

[SacKingZZZ]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

Neither is a legit number 1 option though because the efficiency isn't there. George is closer to one, but before you go out and relinquish most of the able bodied parts of your roster you should think about it.

Pair PG13 next to Cousins, and whatever you put around them, they are a lot closer to a PO team than we have ever try to assemble in the past 10 years. PG13 is THE GUY if we want to cross the hump with. Rudy frkin Gay doesn't have that type of impact at all.

Losing WCS is a tough blow but if it means getting a PG13-level player, you have to go through with it, imo.

Closer shouldn't be the idea if it cements you into a place on the outside looking in. The Kings have run into that same brick wall too many times and hopefully the plan B's of last offseason don't haunt the team moving forward either. Hypothetically speaking, if you leave the situation in Sac the way it was last year, Karl and all, and replace Gay and Willie with PG13 are the Kings a playoff team?

If you gut most of your assets for one player, you better hope that whatever you put around them is still pretty capable, because no two player combo is going to take a team anywhere in todays league. If Paul George and Cuz is enough to sway some FA's to sign for cheaper than usual then it could work. I still think that value is a bit off. Overpaying is all good if it's a part of a bigger plan that is already being put into place, and not something to be figured out later on with no guarantees.

[dozencousins]

This PG13 conversation is embarrassing. Visitors into the thread must be laughing at us what a joke


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I have said IMO I don't think a deal happens . That said info I am giving is 100% true . I think it's a joke that just now and on past trade & rumor threads you have been very rude and disrespectful towards me and my posts though I have posted enough trades & or rumors to this board that have came true as well as rumors in which quit a few never panned out but were posted via internet sometime after my original posts .

You can doubt me if you wish no big deal to me . However I do have an inside source and if you don't believe me you are welcome to ignore my posts . Their is usually always 1 - a few people that seem to always be negative and yet they think every time they say something they are always right and others are more often wrong .
I find it a joke when I know what I know and anyone says the statement you just gave .
If you and others wish for me not to provide the inside info then feel free to get it from the so called experts whom a vast majority are never correct . Go get your info from Aldridge etc. now that's a joke .
Peace man , relax don't try and shot the messenger .

[Jkam31]

This PG13 conversation is embarrassing. Visitors into the thread must be laughing at us what a joke


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I have said IMO I don't think a deal happens . That said info I am giving is 100% true . I think it's a joke that just now and on past trade & rumor threads you have been very rude and disrespectful towards me and my posts though I have posted enough trades & or rumors to this board that have came true as well as rumors in which quit a few never panned out but were posted via internet sometime after my original posts .

You can doubt me if you wish no big deal to me . However I do have an inside source and if you don't believe me you are welcome to ignore my posts . Their is usually always 1 - a few people that seem to always be negative and yet they think every time they say something they are always right and others are more often wrong .
I find it a joke when I know what I know and anyone says the statement you just gave .
If you and others wish for me not to provide the inside info then feel free to get it from the so called experts whom a vast majority are never correct . Go get your info from Aldridge etc. now that's a joke .
Peace man , relax don't try and shot the messenger .

I think you have me mixed up with someone else cause I always enjoy the info you bring and have never attacked you.

And my comment about being embarrassed was directed at people who were comparing PG13 and Gay not you. George and Gay shouldn't be talked about in the sane breath that's what I was getting at.


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[SacKingZZZ]

Paul George is a legit star, while Rudy is simply a complementary piece.

If there is a trade that can bring PG13 to Sacramento without relinquishing Cousins, they should highly consider it. Cousins will get his legit 2nd man.

Neither is a legit number 1 option though because the efficiency isn't there. George is closer to one, but before you go out and relinquish most of the able bodied parts of your roster you should think about it.

Dude, come on. PG was the number 1 option both years he led them to the ECF where he lost to Lebron in a seven game series and a six game series. Led his team to the playoffs this year as the clear cut number one option with Monta as his second fiddle. Guy was surrounded by George Hill, Monta, Jordan Hill and a rookie Myles Turner. There's no way to spin it that PG isn't clearly superior to Gay. His TS% is higher and he shoots the 3 ball at a significantly better clip. All this isn't even mentioning the vast gap in defensive ability. If WCS and 8 is what it takes to swap Gay and PG, you do it and don't look back. I'm a huge WCS fan but getting PG is guaranteed playoff berth every year with a PG/DMC duo.

And his PER is around the middle rung. I never said he wasn't superior to Gay, but when Gay was used in a similar role previous to Karl his numbers were not that far under Georges. Put Gay on that team last year, and George on the Kings last year and guess what happens. The Pacers tied for the 8th best record without George the prior year in arguably a stronger conference.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think you have me mixed up with someone else cause I always enjoy the info you bring and have never attacked you.

And my comment about being embarrassed was directed at people who were comparing PG13 and Gay not you. George and Gay shouldn't be talked about in the sane breath that's what I was getting at.


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Yet the STATS from Gay's first two seasons in Sac and Paul George last year, and for most of his career are comparable and in most years sway towards Rudy Gay. Here are the per 48's from Gays first full year in Sac, and last year for George who took about 2 more shots per game in his most productive year as a pro:

Gay: 28.5 PPG, 8 RPG, 5 APG, 0.8 BPG, 1.4 SPG, 3.6 TO

George: 31.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 5.6 APG, 0.5 BPG, 2.6 SPG, 4.5 TO

Yes, "same breath" to me. Depending on the severity of demeaning Rudy Gay meant in that statement of course. Better yes, eons better? Nope.

Nobody said George wasn't better, some people apparently have a fairly hard time distinguishing important parts of conversation from others. But yes, I disagree, and wouldn't want my team to have him as a number 1 option and as a talent I don't think he's that much more prolific than Gay. For instance, certainly not in the "not in the same breath" category. And if "same breath" category means that one is equal to the other, then no, that is not the discussion here.

[K I N G S]

Paul George is a top 8-12 player in this league and a legit number 1 option on a team, made the all defense team as well. Rudy Gay is maybe a top 50 player and really not even a great number 3 due to his lackadaisical effort on defense. If Gay, WCS, and the 8th pick for George and the Indiana's first round pick is a realistic trade rumor I would do that ten times out of ten. I really like WCS, but pairing two top 15 players and still having a draft pick in range of some of the backcourt players we've discussed at 8, yeah you have to do that.

[SacKingZZZ]

So, if Durant to the Rox isn't possible I wonder if a deal involving Beverley and Ariza for Gay might be in order? If the Kings were able to land someone like Hield, Valentine, or one of the other scoring G's in the draft and/or signed Anderson you could make up most of Gays scoring potential while adding more defense to the roster.

[Sacramento_King]

So, if Durant to the Rox isn't possible I wonder if a deal involving Beverley and Ariza for Gay might be in order? If the Kings were able to land someone like Hield, Valentine, or one of the other scoring G's in the draft and/or signed Anderson you could make up most of Gays scoring potential while adding more defense to the roster.

I would be cool with that. We get a defensive point and a 3d specialist who can guard multiple spots. I'm game all day with a move like that

[Sacramento_King]

Yet the STATS from Gay's first two seasons in Sac and Paul George last year, and for most of his career are comparable and in most years sway towards Rudy Gay. Here are the per 48's from Gays first full year in Sac, and last year for George who took about 2 more shots per game in his most productive year as a pro:

Gay: 28.5 PPG, 8 RPG, 5 APG, 0.8 BPG, 1.4 SPG, 3.6 TO

George: 31.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 5.6 APG, 0.5 BPG, 2.6 SPG, 4.5 TO

Yes, "same breath" to me. Depending on the severity of demeaning Rudy Gay meant in that statement of course. Better yes, eons better? Nope.

Nobody said George wasn't better, some people apparently have a fairly hard time distinguishing important parts of conversation from others. But yes, I disagree, and wouldn't want my team to have him as a number 1 option and as a talent I don't think he's that much more prolific than Gay. For instance, certainly not in the "not in the same breath" category. And if "same breath" category means that one is equal to the other, then no, that is not the discussion here.

Gay's numbers the last two with Sac are similar to his career numbers. One being a lil better and one being a lil worse. The issue I have is defensively he's terrible with low defensive bbiq and he sucks closing out games since he has a mediocre dribble. George was coming back from a horrific injury and was really not the same PG we are used to seeing especially in the beginning of the year but even then is a much better player than Gay. You keep saying you wouldnt want him as your number one but he doesnt need to be, that's DMC's role. Pardon my hyperbole, I envision a lower budget Shaq and Kobe with DMC wearing teams out all game long and PG taking over at end of game.

If the deal on the table was #8, WCS and Gay; I love WCS and he is our face of the franchise but you have to make the play for PG, who is a better overall talent. It is a lot but I think worth it.

You also questioned if Gay and WCS were on Indy and PG was on Sac, would we have made the playoffs. I believe we would have. Just my two cents

[nayyyyyyyyo09]

What would Denver have to give up for Boogie?

[SacKingZZZ]

Yet the STATS from Gay's first two seasons in Sac and Paul George last year, and for most of his career are comparable and in most years sway towards Rudy Gay. Here are the per 48's from Gays first full year in Sac, and last year for George who took about 2 more shots per game in his most productive year as a pro:

Gay: 28.5 PPG, 8 RPG, 5 APG, 0.8 BPG, 1.4 SPG, 3.6 TO

George: 31.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 5.6 APG, 0.5 BPG, 2.6 SPG, 4.5 TO

Yes, "same breath" to me. Depending on the severity of demeaning Rudy Gay meant in that statement of course. Better yes, eons better? Nope.

Nobody said George wasn't better, some people apparently have a fairly hard time distinguishing important parts of conversation from others. But yes, I disagree, and wouldn't want my team to have him as a number 1 option and as a talent I don't think he's that much more prolific than Gay. For instance, certainly not in the "not in the same breath" category. And if "same breath" category means that one is equal to the other, then no, that is not the discussion here.

Gay's numbers the last two with Sac are similar to his career numbers. One being a lil better and one being a lil worse. The issue I have is defensively he's terrible with low defensive bbiq and he sucks closing out games since he has a mediocre dribble. George was coming back from a horrific injury and was really not the same PG we are used to seeing especially in the beginning of the year but even then is a much better player than Gay. You keep saying you wouldnt want him as your number one but he doesnt need to be, that's DMC's role. Pardon my hyperbole, I envision a lower budget Shaq and Kobe with DMC wearing teams out all game long and PG taking over at end of game.

If the deal on the table was #8, WCS and Gay; I love WCS and he is our face of the franchise but you have to make the play for PG, who is a better overall talent. It is a lot but I think worth it.

You also questioned if Gay and WCS were on Indy and PG was on Sac, would we have made the playoffs. I believe we would have. Just my two cents

I never mentioned that it would be his role with Sacramento. That was a side discussion based on the idea of universally assigning superstar or number 1 option value to a player I don't necessarily view as that in every scenario. And that's exactly why it brings up the other points about productivity and value because you'd have to wonder what you'd get production wise vs. what you had. He might be BETTER as a complimentary piece and in my opinion he would, hence not viewing him as a legit number 1 option that I would personally build a team around. I'm not questioning his fit with Cuz or anything else beyond value and building a complete team afterward.

If the end result is cementing your team in place with little opportunity to still tweak it due to few moveable assets then I'm not sure the timing would be right. If you could bring in someone like George without exhausting all of your assets then great, or even if you are able to at least fill out the other needs simultaneously then perfect, but just doing it and then figuring it out later while you try and defeat full teams with two players isn't a wise move IMO.

And no, I don't view Willie as untouchable. He's a role player, but he also represents the only young player with real value the Kings have. Tacking on a player at the same position as George that is capable of star play himself, while adding another lotto pick on top of it is questionable to me. Normally teams that break the bank for a star, like say Cleveland with Love, already have a team in the bag and ready to go. I'm not sure the Kings do after that trade. There would be the potential to entice FA's with George and Cuz perhaps, but that's still an uphill battle for Sacramento.

Would I be down with a Cuz/George combo? Heck yeah, but how it gets done is crucial to what you actually get out of it.

[psimanic1]

What would Denver have to give up for Ben?