Official #1 pick thread

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

What position he'll play has been a huge argument for some reason. I think it is rather simple, he can play either 3 or 4 spot. If you were to ask me where I think he should play, I would tell you as a small forward/point forward. PG, KD, LBJ are all primarily small forwards, but they can and do play the power forward position quite often. Once Simmons improves his shot, I seen no reason why he can't start games at small forward, and primarily play as a small forward despite having power forward size. It is what makes him such an amazing prospect. We're going to get a great basketball player in Ben Simmons. This is the start of a great era for us provided BC doesn't eff things up.

[MGB8]

Odom was 23 the last time he played SF. Smith was 20 (not counting the 2014 Pistons disaster). Both have played the vast majority of their careers at PF. Odom, Smith, and Young are different players who played better at PF for similar reasons. Lack of shooting less of a disadvantage at PF, quickness/athleticism more of an advantage at PF.

Forget the other names. Like I said, how do you expect Simmons to use size to his advantage at SF? Play in the post while the PF is out on the perimeter? So basically, he would be playing the role of PF...Also, you should realize that in this scenario, if defenses think their PF would do a better job on Simmons, which you also seem to think, then they will defend Simmons with their PF.

Odom played a bunch of SF in LA when they did the Gasol-Bynum thing (when he was on the court with them, though that was limited because of lack of spacing where neither Gasol nor Bynum were real threats from the perimeter). Also played some for Dallas - where you do have a stretch 4 for him to play with in Dirk - but he was old and breaking by then. That said, he came in a better shooter from 3 than Simmons does - with range (but a slow release, and inconsistent). Also, while Odom could handle the ball, he lacked the explosion (which Simmons has) to really penetrate from the perimeter.

Josh Smith also played plenty of SF in ATL well after the age of 20 - basically, any time Horford was playing PF (with Collins or someone else playing Center) and Smith was in. But Smith also is a rim protector, defensively, who doesn't dribble well or shoot consistently.... so he *should* be playing the 4, both offensively and defensively.

Anyway, you miss my point. Offensively, Simmons is going to be non-traditional - a point forward a lot, and, off ball, a guy who you want to get the ball to while slashing into the lane. To fully take advantage of Simmons you need to be able to pair him with a guy who the opposing teams feel the need to defend with a 4 (and who can defend the 4, as well). Someone who also has a height-strength advantage, so that you can't just stick a wing on him, and leave the 4 to defend Simmons. You could still choose to send the wing at the other guy, and have the 4 defend Simmons - but then at least you get another mis-match to take advantage of - if only for less contested shots from the perimeter and better team rebounding.

Defensively, letting Simmons defend on the perimeter, rather than bang in the paint, will probably help him, too.

I can see Simmons as a small-ball 4, sure - when trying to run a little more. But the problem is that won't help that much against most other teams. The advantage of small ball 4's is usually both that they move more quickly (especially off ball) but mostly because they can shoot - so they add additional spacing (Draymond, Tobias Harris, Luol Deng, Jared Dudley at the 4, etc.). Simmons doesn't give you that - so the benefit is pretty limited.

Again, transition basketball is a fairly small percentage of each game in terms of offensive possessions. You have to have a miss that is rebounded in a way that triggers the break. Any make, or any "slow" rebound where defenders had time to get back... no real break opportunity.

[MGB8]

If Simmons is your 4, I guess you can run him around picks and such to try to free him up for slash baskets, and ISO him on opposing 4s - starting from the perimeter - surrounded by shooters.

The problem is that, because he doesn't have much of a shot, the defense can sag, to include going under picks and screens, which hurts the ability to get into the lane. And if he does, zone concepts and his lack of elite size will probably mean that he isn't that efficient - certainly not like he was in college vs. weaker opponents.

I mean, is adding a 6'10 PF who doesn't help much in terms of interior defense but is athletic and can handle that exciting? Is it a better addition to a team than the 7'1 Porzingis? Much less KAT (who plays a lot of 4 - Dieng is their 5 when they are both in - Basketball reference switches it because they go by height, not role)?

Heck - maybe he'll be a revelation... It's just hard for me to get pumped for a decent sized 4 who can handle and pass, but won't be "elite" on the boards IMO (college was a different game), doesn't give you much interior defense, and doesn't have much of a shot. Kind of Blake Griffin-y, with less bounce/explosion but more handle and passing.

[sixerswillrule]

Odom was 23 the last time he played SF. Smith was 20 (not counting the 2014 Pistons disaster). Both have played the vast majority of their careers at PF. Odom, Smith, and Young are different players who played better at PF for similar reasons. Lack of shooting less of a disadvantage at PF, quickness/athleticism more of an advantage at PF.

Forget the other names. Like I said, how do you expect Simmons to use size to his advantage at SF? Play in the post while the PF is out on the perimeter? So basically, he would be playing the role of PF...Also, you should realize that in this scenario, if defenses think their PF would do a better job on Simmons, which you also seem to think, then they will defend Simmons with their PF.

Odom played a bunch of SF in LA when they did the Gasol-Bynum thing (when he was on the court with them, though that was limited because of lack of spacing where neither Gasol nor Bynum were real threats from the perimeter). Also played some for Dallas - where you do have a stretch 4 for him to play with in Dirk - but he was old and breaking by then. That said, he came in a better shooter from 3 than Simmons does - with range (but a slow release, and inconsistent). Also, while Odom could handle the ball, he lacked the explosion (which Simmons has) to really penetrate from the perimeter.

Josh Smith also played plenty of SF in ATL well after the age of 20 - basically, any time Horford was playing PF (with Collins or someone else playing Center) and Smith was in. But Smith also is a rim protector, defensively, who doesn't dribble well or shoot consistently.... so he *should* be playing the 4, both offensively and defensively.

Anyway, you miss my point. Offensively, Simmons is going to be non-traditional - a point forward a lot, and, off ball, a guy who you want to get the ball to while slashing into the lane. To fully take advantage of Simmons you need to be able to pair him with a guy who the opposing teams feel the need to defend with a 4 (and who can defend the 4, as well). Someone who also has a height-strength advantage, so that you can't just stick a wing on him, and leave the 4 to defend Simmons. You could still choose to send the wing at the other guy, and have the 4 defend Simmons - but then at least you get another mis-match to take advantage of - if only for less contested shots from the perimeter and better team rebounding.

Defensively, letting Simmons defend on the perimeter, rather than bang in the paint, will probably help him, too.

I can see Simmons as a small-ball 4, sure - when trying to run a little more. But the problem is that won't help that much against most other teams. The advantage of small ball 4's is usually both that they move more quickly (especially off ball) but mostly because they can shoot - so they add additional spacing (Draymond, Tobias Harris, Luol Deng, Jared Dudley at the 4, etc.). Simmons doesn't give you that - so the benefit is pretty limited.

Again, transition basketball is a fairly small percentage of each game in terms of offensive possessions. You have to have a miss that is rebounded in a way that triggers the break. Any make, or any "slow" rebound where defenders had time to get back... no real break opportunity.

I meant signficantly play SF, as in more than 5 minutes per game. Odom hardly ever played SF in LA, see here under Play-by-Play. He pretty much never played SF alongside Gasol and Bynum. He was done in Dallas. And here is evidence that Smith virtually never played SF at age 22, as an example.

Transition basketball is a small part, where Simmons at PF will will be more effective after grabbing the rebound, but I'm talking half-court too. Like I said, he'll be able to do break down PFs off the dribble than against SFs. Those quicker guys will be able to stay in front of him and limit his penetration. I don't see the benefit of pairing Simmons with another forward who has a height/strength advantage instead of a quickness advantage.

[SelfishPlayer]

Simmons is a PF in the NBA. The lingering Lebron James comparisons still has people thinking that he is a SF to any degree.

[Unbreakable99]

Simmons is a PF in the NBA. The lingering Lebron James comparisons still has people thinking that he is a SF to any degree.

I don't care what you list him as. He's going to play some point for us and be on the wing. You can list him as a tight end or right guard or left fielder for all I care. He's going to have the ball in his hands facilitating the offense and spend a lot of time outside the paint area.

[SelfishPlayer]

Simmons is a PF in the NBA. The lingering Lebron James comparisons still has people thinking that he is a SF to any degree.

I don't care what you list him as. He's going to play some point for us and be on the wing. You can list him as a tight end or right guard or left fielder for all I care. He's going to have the ball in his hands facilitating the offense and spend a lot of time outside the paint area.

Defense matters you know...

[Ericb5]

If Simmons is your 4, I guess you can run him around picks and such to try to free him up for slash baskets, and ISO him on opposing 4s - starting from the perimeter - surrounded by shooters.

The problem is that, because he doesn't have much of a shot, the defense can sag, to include going under picks and screens, which hurts the ability to get into the lane. And if he does, zone concepts and his lack of elite size will probably mean that he isn't that efficient - certainly not like he was in college vs. weaker opponents.

I mean, is adding a 6'10 PF who doesn't help much in terms of interior defense but is athletic and can handle that exciting? Is it a better addition to a team than the 7'1 Porzingis? Much less KAT (who plays a lot of 4 - Dieng is their 5 when they are both in - Basketball reference switches it because they go by height, not role)?

Heck - maybe he'll be a revelation... It's just hard for me to get pumped for a decent sized 4 who can handle and pass, but won't be "elite" on the boards IMO (college was a different game), doesn't give you much interior defense, and doesn't have much of a shot. Kind of Blake Griffin-y, with less bounce/explosion but more handle and passing.

The primary advantage of taking Simmons is that he is a 6'10 great athlete that can run your team, which will lead to huge advantages.

He is also a great rebounder that is going to go coast to coast on people all day.

The rest of the stuff that you mentioned is all just about the rest of his game that we will have to work out. He STILL projects to be plus in a lot of those areas too though.

However, what you should get excited about is not his skills per se, but that he is going to be a non traditional superstar.

We found our star with him, and even better is that we have an even better star in Embiid if he works out. Simmons and Embiid are going to be 2 of the top 5 young players in basketball, and we have them.


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[Unbreakable99]

Simmons is a PF in the NBA. The lingering Lebron James comparisons still has people thinking that he is a SF to any degree.

I don't care what you list him as. He's going to play some point for us and be on the wing. You can list him as a tight end or right guard or left fielder for all I care. He's going to have the ball in his hands facilitating the offense and spend a lot of time outside the paint area.

Defense matters you know...

I know. And a quick 6'10 guy can match up pretty well with SFs. I don't see him being out of place if he got matched up against Paul George or Harrison Barnes or KD or LeBron or Kawhai Leonard or DeRozen. I think he can hold his own as much as anyone else trying to guard them.

[SelfishPlayer]

I don't care what you list him as. He's going to play some point for us and be on the wing. You can list him as a tight end or right guard or left fielder for all I care. He's going to have the ball in his hands facilitating the offense and spend a lot of time outside the paint area.

Defense matters you know...

I know. And a quick 6'10 guy can match up pretty well with SFs. I don't see him being out of place if he got matched up against Paul George or Harrison Barnes or KD or LeBron or Kawhai Leonard or DeRozen. I think he can hold his own as much as anyone else trying to guard them.

I don't think so, it's not impossible, but I believe that when it's all said and done people will view him defensively as best suited to guard PFs and Cs in a small ball lineup with any ability he has to guard SFs as simply a plus. Generally good defenders at the SF position are also good at defending SGs. Can you imagine SImmons guarding a D Wade in his prime? Tragic...

[Mik317]

No one could guard a prime Wade tho.

I hate that argument...."oh he can't guard LeBron tho"...get in line I guess?

Super stars are going to get theirs no matter what..that is what makes them super stars. As long as Simmons isn't out there pulling a Harden, he will be fine.

[Kobblehead]

I don't know what is going to surprise people more: the fact that Ben Simmons is not a big or the fact that he's a damn good defender.

Either way, I'll be looking forward to these statements in next year's game thread:

"Wait a second, I thought Ben Simmons was Julius Randle. I can't believe he's operating from the perimeter like a typical SF!"

"Damn, Ben Simmons with another steal. But those handful of 8 second clips lead me to believe he was a matador!"

[mksp]

I don't know what is going to surprise people more: the fact that Ben Simmons is not a big or the fact that he's a damn good defender.

Either way, I'll be looking forwards to these statements in next year's game thread:

"Wait a second, I thought Ben Simmons was Julius Randle. I can't believe he's operating from the perimeter like a typical SF!"

"Damn, Ben Simmons with another steal. But those handful of 8 second clips lead me to believe he was a matador!"

This Julius Randle nonsense is mind boggling, both here and in LA.

Spend a little time over on Lakers Ground. Those guys wouldn't trade Julius Randle for #3 and consider him a key part of their core.

[Ericb5]

I don't know what is going to surprise people more: the fact that Ben Simmons is not a big or the fact that he's a damn good defender.

Either way, I'll be looking forwards to these statements in next year's game thread:

"Wait a second, I thought Ben Simmons was Julius Randle. I can't believe he's operating from the perimeter like a typical SF!"

"Damn, Ben Simmons with another steal. But those handful of 8 second clips lead me to believe he was a matador!"

This Julius Randle nonsense is mind boggling, both here and in LA.

Spend a little time over on Lakers Ground. Those guys wouldn't trade Julius Randle for #3 and consider him a key part of their core.

The comparison to Randle is silly. The only player in the league that he really compares to is Lebron.

That doesn't mean that he will be Lebron, but THAT is the player that he is most like.


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[NBD23]

No one could guard a prime Wade tho.

I hate that argument...."oh he can't guard LeBron tho"...get in line I guess?

Super stars are going to get theirs no matter what..that is what makes them super stars. As long as Simmons isn't out there pulling a Harden, he will be fine.

This! Great players can't really be stopped but can at least be bothered to get their points. If Simmons is giving the effort he is supposed to he is more then athletic enough to hinder any of those guys. People severely underestimate how good of an athlete Simmons is.

[LloydFree]

I don't know what is going to surprise people more: the fact that Ben Simmons is not a big or the fact that he's a damn good defender.

Either way, I'll be looking forwards to these statements in next year's game thread:

"Wait a second, I thought Ben Simmons was Julius Randle. I can't believe he's operating from the perimeter like a typical SF!"

"Damn, Ben Simmons with another steal. But those handful of 8 second clips lead me to believe he was a matador!"

This Julius Randle nonsense is mind boggling, both here and in LA.

Spend a little time over on Lakers Ground. Those guys wouldn't trade Julius Randle for #3 and consider him a key part of their core.

No more ridiculous than 76ers fans who wouldn't trade Okafor and consider him a part of our future core. At least Randle rebounds the ball.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania

Vertical Sources: Duke's Brandon Ingram has scheduled private workout and meeting with the Philadelphia 76ers on Monday.

[CoreyGallagher]

Usually do my rounds on the other team's forums/boards and supposedly Ingram didn't impress portions of the Lakers' staff with his range or skills. It was only a single work out so its not as if it matters and really they'd be drafting him for what he could eventually be, but I thought that was interesting.

Hopefully we'll hear about how he does for us, too.

[76ciology]

Usually do my rounds on the other team's forums and supposedly Ingram didn't impress portions of the Lakers' staff with his range or skills. It was only a single work out so its not as if it matters and really they'd be drafting him for what he could eventually be, but I thought that was interesting.

Hopefully we'll hear about how he does for us, too.

Was about to post this.

He also sounds down in his interview or maybe it was just his usual self.

[76ciology]

I don't know what is going to surprise people more: the fact that Ben Simmons is not a big or the fact that he's a damn good defender.

Either way, I'll be looking forward to these statements in next year's game thread:

"Wait a second, I thought Ben Simmons was Julius Randle. I can't believe he's operating from the perimeter like a typical SF!"

"Damn, Ben Simmons with another steal. But those handful of 8 second clips lead me to believe he was a matador!"

Yup, wasn't sold that he can play SF until I watched tapes of his games pre-LSU.