The Trade/Free Agency Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 2

[RaisingArizona]

Wiretap says GS wants to keep Barnes but if he expresses he wants out they will try and accomodate him with a S&T. For those who are ok with paying him that max, would you be ok also giving up Warren and possibly more assets to sign him?

Probably not.

[letsgosuns]

#4/Warren is the starting point. But I agree Butler is a 2-way guy who helps you immensely right away and he's under contract for four years.

I do not want to give up Warren. Even for Butler. I have seriously high hopes for Warren. Remember before Booker got an opportunity, everyone thought Warren was going to be the star young player of the Suns. I think he still has a chance to be a 20 point a game scorer. He is the prototypical size for a small forward, really athletic, and a natural scorer. Still very young and on a rookie contract. Too much potential to give up on right now.

Warren has the 'potential' to be a 20ppg scorer..Butler already is. Warren 'could' become a passable defender. Butler is one of the best in the business. Butler is everything we HOPE Warren MIGHT be. Butler already IS that. And hes still young enough to build around, in his prime. I don't understand this thought process at all.

The thought process is that you do not dismantle your team for one guy. Butler is only useful on the Suns if they retain their other good young players. Giving up the fourth pick in the draft is already a huge price. Look at the Cavaliers with Kevin Love. You think they would do that trade over again if they could. Giving up on Andrew Wiggins before he plays a minute in the NBA. Imagine if they had Irving, Wiggins, and Lebron. You give up on Warren and he becomes a 20 point scorer you will regret it. I am all for getting Butler but like I said, you would be giving the Bulls Dunn, Bender, or Murray or whoever else plus Knight who already averages 20 ppg and also Tucker who is the strong small forward defender. That is a really good package for a team that wants to rebuild. The Warriors do not have Curry and Thompson and no one else. They have a full team. The Suns are in no position to trade away all their assets for one guy.

[JMac1]

As long as the Suns do not give up a massive package for Butler, then I am for the trade. Something like the 4th pick, Knight, and possibly Tucker, and that is it. That allows the Suns to still draft a power forward with the 13th pick. Getting Butler moves up the timeline dramatically. I think that is what the Suns want. No playoffs for six years takes a toll on an organization. Like others have said, if you have Bledsoe, Booker, and Butler, free agents/trade candidates view your team differently. Idk if it puts the Suns on Lebron or Durant's radar, but it would certainly help.

#4/Warren is the starting point. But I agree Butler is a 2-way guy who helps you immensely right away and he's under contract for four years.

I do not want to give up Warren. Even for Butler. I have seriously high hopes for Warren. Remember before Booker got an opportunity, everyone thought Warren was going to be the star young player of the Suns. I think he still has a chance to be a 20 point a game scorer. He is the prototypical size for a small forward, really athletic, and a natural scorer. Still very young and on a rookie contract. Too much potential to give up on right now.

Yea, I want to give Warren a try and build around Booker, versus gutting our team for guys that don't mesh well age wise. Knight and the #4 for Butler, maybe try Warren at the four?

[dremill24]

I do not want to give up Warren. Even for Butler. I have seriously high hopes for Warren. Remember before Booker got an opportunity, everyone thought Warren was going to be the star young player of the Suns. I think he still has a chance to be a 20 point a game scorer. He is the prototypical size for a small forward, really athletic, and a natural scorer. Still very young and on a rookie contract. Too much potential to give up on right now.

Warren has the 'potential' to be a 20ppg scorer..Butler already is. Warren 'could' become a passable defender. Butler is one of the best in the business. Butler is everything we HOPE Warren MIGHT be. Butler already IS that. And hes still young enough to build around, in his prime. I don't understand this thought process at all.

The thought process is that you do not dismantle your team for one guy. Butler is only useful on the Suns if they retain their other good young players. Giving up the fourth pick in the draft is already a huge price. Look at the Cavaliers with Kevin Love. You think they would do that trade over again if they could. Giving up on Andrew Wiggins before he plays a minute in the NBA. Imagine if they had Irving, Wiggins, and Lebron. You give up on Warren and he becomes a 20 point scorer you will regret it. I am all for getting Butler but like I said, you would be giving the Bulls Dunn, Bender, or Murray or whoever else plus Knight who already averages 20 ppg and also Tucker who is the strong small forward defender. That is a really good package for a team that wants to rebuild. The Warriors do not have Curry and Thompson and no one else. They have a full team. The Suns are in no position to trade away all their assets for one guy.

You didnt say anything about gutting the team. You said you werent willing to deal Warren, which is what i addressed. Obviously it wouldnt be ideal to send every single asset we have for Butler but there is obviously a middle ground somewhere. But you made it seem like Warren was a deal breaker no matter what the package is.

[letsgosuns]

Warren has the 'potential' to be a 20ppg scorer..Butler already is. Warren 'could' become a passable defender. Butler is one of the best in the business. Butler is everything we HOPE Warren MIGHT be. Butler already IS that. And hes still young enough to build around, in his prime. I don't understand this thought process at all.

The thought process is that you do not dismantle your team for one guy. Butler is only useful on the Suns if they retain their other good young players. Giving up the fourth pick in the draft is already a huge price. Look at the Cavaliers with Kevin Love. You think they would do that trade over again if they could. Giving up on Andrew Wiggins before he plays a minute in the NBA. Imagine if they had Irving, Wiggins, and Lebron. You give up on Warren and he becomes a 20 point scorer you will regret it. I am all for getting Butler but like I said, you would be giving the Bulls Dunn, Bender, or Murray or whoever else plus Knight who already averages 20 ppg and also Tucker who is the strong small forward defender. That is a really good package for a team that wants to rebuild. The Warriors do not have Curry and Thompson and no one else. They have a full team. The Suns are in no position to trade away all their assets for one guy.

You didnt say anything about gutting the team. You said you werent willing to deal Warren, which is what i addressed. Obviously it wouldnt be ideal to send every single asset we have for Butler but there is obviously a middle ground somewhere. But you made it seem like Warren was a deal breaker no matter what the package is.

I would not give up Warren AND the 4th pick. If they want Warren, then they get the 13th pick instead of the 4th. I have seen enough of Warren to believe he can be a sixth man of the year type player and/or consistent scorer as a starter. If the Suns trade the 4th pick and Warren, I view that as trading Bender/Warren or Murray/Warren. That is giving up two extremely young and talented players. The Suns are nowhere near a title contender and Butler does not put them over the top. Butler himself does not even guarantee them the playoffs. The Bulls did not make the playoffs in the East and they had lots of good players. I know they had injuries but still.

I also keep thinking about what the Diamondbacks just did. Inciarte, Blair, and the first pick of the draft in Swanson for Miller who has been so horrible they had to remove him from the rotation. I do not want the Suns to make the same mistake.

[Qwigglez]

#4 and Knight is as far as I"ll go in trading for Butler. We would need some bench power and that 13th pick to add a PF to our roster. There isn't many PF free agent out there that can help our squad out this year so we'd likely have to wait til next offseason but then we'd have to deal with Len's extension and at that point I'm not sure what our cap space would look like.

[thamadkant]

Pick 4 and Warren for Butler looks to me as what would appeal to Bulls.


I also think Grizzlies, Rockets might be interested in Knight... As those teams are looking for a PG who can score. And assuming Conley leaves Grizzlies.

[Saberestar]

#4/Warren is the starting point. But I agree Butler is a 2-way guy who helps you immensely right away and he's under contract for four years.

I do not want to give up Warren. Even for Butler. I have seriously high hopes for Warren. Remember before Booker got an opportunity, everyone thought Warren was going to be the star young player of the Suns. I think he still has a chance to be a 20 point a game scorer. He is the prototypical size for a small forward, really athletic, and a natural scorer. Still very young and on a rookie contract. Too much potential to give up on right now.

Warren has the 'potential' to be a 20ppg scorer..Butler already is. Warren 'could' become a passable defender. Butler is one of the best in the business. Butler is everything we HOPE Warren MIGHT be. Butler already IS that. And hes still young enough to build around, in his prime. I don't understand this thought process at all.

I wouldn't trade Warren and #4 for Butler.

Warren hasn't played for Watson yet, he is gonna be great...he is too good and too young to be traded.

On the other hand, I am open to trade Knight, #4 and #28 for Butler. Probably I would add a future pick too if it's a deal breaker.

[SideSwipe]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNInsider/status/741328166761988096[/tweet]

More smoke- let's hope there's some fire there, and PHX can get to the front of the line. JB=Young Vet

If we get Butler, we will look dramatically better to FA's and to agents for trades. This could be why they are posturing Book as a potential 3, so they can say Butler is a 2 though it seems, Butler is very interchangeable at those two spots. Just spit-balling.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, FA/Trade, Chandler Maybe we go for Love still as well.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Love, Chandler. Defense from three spots, fairly balanced scoring options as well. Depending on who got sent out, we might still have some money to spend in FA as well.

You think the 4 and Knight is enough for Butler, or that they'd want the 13 as well?

Not quite enough, I don't think. If we do trade for Butler, I do not want to send out Tucker. Tucker is a good bench piece on a winning team. He would also allow us to play a defensive perimeter lineup (Bled, Butler, Tucker).

This may sound like heresy, but I think once Butler is in hand, you at least make the call to IND for PG- and while you don't offer Book in your first offer, I don't think you take him off the table either.

I actually think that if we have Butler and George, we may want to think about switching out Bledsoe for Rubio and then get a great finishing PF in FA. Rubio can focus on passing and defense, and let the other guys score.

Think about this crazy 4 team trade:

PHX trades: Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, Len, Goodwin, #4, #13, #28, MIA 2018 #1, MIA 2021 #1
PHX receives: Rubio, Butler, George

CHI trades: Butler, Rose
CHI receives: Knight, Ellis, Len, Muhammed, #4, #28

IND trades: George, Ellis
IND Receives: Rose, Tucker, Booker, Warren, #13, MIA 2017/18 #1 MIA 2020/21 #1

MIN trades: Rubio, Mohammed
MIN receives: Bledsoe, Goodwin

Amazingly after this, PHX would still have $32-$34 million to spend on FA's

Rubio/Bobo
Butler/ Bobo/ Jenkins
George/
FA/ Williams
Chandler/ AJ Hammons (#34)

You think Durant might want to come to that team? Love?

It's all pie in the sky, but the values aren't too far off for all involved I don't think. Seems like there could still be some interesting plays for PHX coming up.

[bwgood77]

I think Boston will probably offer something like the 3 and Smart so Cicago could get back a defensive guard abd take another guard to round out backcourt.

[bwgood77]

Pick 4 and Warren for Butler looks to me as what would appeal to Bulls.


I also think Grizzlies, Rockets might be interested in Knight... As those teams are looking for a PG who can score. And assuming Conley leaves Grizzlies.

Knight seems better than Warren. For salary and to have one guard replacement. They already have Dougie McBuckets at 3 and Mirotic can play 3 also.

[thamadkant]

Pick 4 and Warren for Butler looks to me as what would appeal to Bulls.


I also think Grizzlies, Rockets might be interested in Knight... As those teams are looking for a PG who can score. And assuming Conley leaves Grizzlies.

Knight seems better than Warren. For salary and to have one guard replacement. They already have Dougie McBuckets at 3 and Mirotic can play 3 also.

Knight and pick 4 works too... But would rather trade that sort of package for Okafor or someone who is younger Butler. Maybe George or Okafor or Cousins.

[bwgood77]

More smoke- let's hope there's some fire there, and PHX can get to the front of the line. JB=Young Vet

If we get Butler, we will look dramatically better to FA's and to agents for trades. This could be why they are posturing Book as a potential 3, so they can say Butler is a 2 though it seems, Butler is very interchangeable at those two spots. Just spit-balling.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, FA/Trade, Chandler Maybe we go for Love still as well.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Love, Chandler. Defense from three spots, fairly balanced scoring options as well. Depending on who got sent out, we might still have some money to spend in FA as well.

You think the 4 and Knight is enough for Butler, or that they'd want the 13 as well?

Not quite enough, I don't think. If we do trade for Butler, I do not want to send out Tucker. Tucker is a good bench piece on a winning team. He would also allow us to play a defensive perimeter lineup (Bled, Butler, Tucker).

This may sound like heresy, but I think once Butler is in hand, you at least make the call to IND for PG- and while you don't offer Book in your first offer, I don't think you take him off the table either.

I actually think that if we have Butler and George, we may want to think about switching out Bledsoe for Rubio and then get a great finishing PF in FA. Rubio can focus on passing and defense, and let the other guys score.

Think about this crazy 4 team trade:

PHX trades: Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, Len, Goodwin, #4, #13, #28, MIA 2018 #1, MIA 2021 #1
PHX receives: Rubio, Butler, George

CHI trades: Butler, Rose
CHI receives: Knight, Ellis, Len, Muhammed, #4, #28

IND trades: George, Ellis
IND Receives: Rose, Tucker, Booker, Warren, #13, MIA 2017/18 #1 MIA 2020/21 #1

MIN trades: Rubio, Mohammed
MIN receives: Bledsoe, Goodwin

Amazingly after this, PHX would still have $32-$34 million to spend on FA's

Rubio/Bobo
Butler/ Bobo/ Jenkins
George/
FA/ Williams
Chandler/ AJ Hammons (#34)

You think Durant might want to come to that team? Love?

It's all pie in the sky, but the values aren't too far off for all involved I don't think. Seems like there could still be some interesting plays for PHX coming up.

I don't think George or Rubio are going anywhere. They are fan faves, team leaders on up n coming teams. Minny outscored opponents with Rubio this year and among worst in league without him. George among most untouchable in league. We don't even have good enough pieces to get him even with Booker Warren and a few firsts.

[nevetsov]

I think it's unlikely Book can play the 3 anytime soon. But for sake of argument say he could, it would actually unclutter our backcourt logjam:

Bledsoe, (Baldwin)
Knight, Goodwin
Booker, Warren
(Bender), Tucker
Len, Chandler

Bledsoe & Len pick and roll with the other three bombing 3's on the perimeter. Warren and Goodwin scoring off the bench.

[rsavaj]

I'd offer a lot for Butler as long as it gives us a Bledsoe/Booker/Butler trio.

After you get Butler, you're actually on the map for free agents. Not Durant, but guys who would have otherwise looked past you start giving you the time of day.

[letsgosuns]

Like a lot of posters have stated recently for various reasons, these comments further cement my belief the Suns were lucky to not have traded a huge package for Love.

Why does public sentiment turn on him as soon as the Cavs stumble?

"Why do you think?" Love said, answering a question with a question. "You're part of it. I'm not saying you're who does it, but you are there with the people that do ...

"I don't know how to answer it because, I have a couple bad games last series [against Toronto], tough games, and have to come back and do whatever I needed to do to help the team. Still, it's just never enough."

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/cleveland-cavaliers-kevin-love-never-enough-critics-concussion-injury-lebron-james-061116


Never enough? Uhh you are supposed to be a superstar. The team gave you a full max contract and you barely do anything out there. Your defense is atrocious and you are averaging 16 ppg and 9 rpg in the playoffs. Those are just decent numbers. Nowhere near superstar level. The Cavs traded for you so you can put up 20/20 games in the playoffs and dominate offensively. You do nothing even close to that. The team is arguably better with you on the bench because you are such a detriment defensively. The only game the Cavs won so far in this series is the game you did not play. You are also the only player I have ever seen that actually got worse playing next to Lebron.

[thamadkant]

Like a lot of posters have stated recently for various reasons, these comments further cement my belief the Suns were lucky to not have traded a huge package for Love.

Why does public sentiment turn on him as soon as the Cavs stumble?

"Why do you think?" Love said, answering a question with a question. "You're part of it. I'm not saying you're who does it, but you are there with the people that do ...

"I don't know how to answer it because, I have a couple bad games last series [against Toronto], tough games, and have to come back and do whatever I needed to do to help the team. Still, it's just never enough."

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/cleveland-cavaliers-kevin-love-never-enough-critics-concussion-injury-lebron-james-061116


Never enough? Uhh you are supposed to be a superstar. The team gave you a full max contract and you barely do anything out there. Your defense is atrocious and you are averaging 16 ppg and 9 rpg in the playoffs. Those are just decent numbers. Nowhere near superstar level. The Cavs traded for you so you can put up 20/20 games in the playoffs and dominate offensively. You do nothing even close to that. The team is arguably better with you on the bench because you are such a detriment defensively. The only game the Cavs won so far in this series is the game you did not play. I have no interest in Love ever being on the Suns.

huh?


Barely do anything out there?

You hate Love we get it.

But to say Love's production being down is primarily due to him is ignorant.

Even Bosh warned Love that his role will be reduced significantly.

Love was an all round scorer in Minesota. Inside, outside etc. In Cavs he is 3rd option and is used primarily to spread the floor.

Against the Warriors... He is being exposed intentionally because Warriors strength is about switching man and finding slashers or open shooters... Love's weakness is his ability to contest slashers or get to open man in time... His pick and roll defense is also below average due to his defense style.


But he has averaged 17/10 for a 3rd option... Which is very good.



Basically big men or inside players suffer a lot when they are paired with Lebron.... Its a trend and its expected due to Lebron's style of play.

[rsavaj]

interesting trade idea on the trade board...Bledsoe/Len/both lotto picks for John Wall

I don't like it but I love John Wall, and a Wall/Booker core excites me a lot more than anything we have going on right now.

[letsgosuns]

interesting trade idea on the trade board...Bledsoe/Len/both lotto picks for John Wall

I don't like it but I love John Wall, and a Wall/Booker core excites me a lot more than anything we have going on right now.

Okay seriously that makes me laugh. I really like Wall, but I would only do that trade for Durant or Curry and Durant was signed and the Suns were making a trade for him as opposed to him being a free agent. I cannot think of anyone else except maybe Lebron.

[dremill24]

That seems like a lot for Wall..