Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[bws94]

Anyone want to provide a summary of the takeaway points?

Scriptures guide his life. He felt a lot of fear and envy. He compared himself to other players. He's learned to be still and that's guiding him. There's a lot more for someone who wants to tackle it. He's a very religious man and it guides him.

He talked about Curry and his handles and shot, in one section, and how he was jealous of that, for instance.

[yosemiteben]

He felt fear and envy in Charlotte or other places?

ETA: oh you mean other guys in the league generally?

[bws94]

He felt fear and envy in Charlotte or other places?

ETA: oh you mean other guys in the league generally?

More previous. He loved Charlotte, teammates. Said Marvin and Kemba called him by his Chinese name. That trip really showed them how much Lin is loved. With the envy he talked of LeBron's height and strength and Curry's handle and quick release. He sounded very at peace and happy with Charlotte, a lot of it through his religious beliefs and guidance. I don't think it hurt that on Charlotte, Cody, Courtney Lee, Marvin, and maybe some other guys were very religious also. He said he hates buses and bus rides and he enjoyed the daily grind just hanging out with his teammates. Talked about just little things he appreciated, like playing in front of a lot of people in arenas, and thinking how great a job that was. He does have a lot of talk about not living up to the great basketball player he wanted to be.

He also said he wasn't that happy during Linsanity, said it was a lot of pressure to live up to how he performed them. Big burden. Now, he's religious, said you have to strive for inner content and not base it off of outside praise.

[Roy Tarpley]

If you're not religious/Christian, it's hard to sit through 50 minutes of his giving witness and proselytizing. This being said, there's some good nuggets in there. He definitely wants to start -- if there is any ambiguity about this question in the future, you can refer people to this video. He said when he had a bad game, he would go straight to McDs and get a McFlurry -- and he had a lot of McFlurries in Los Angeles. He also noted that he was more joyous and content in Charlotte than LA despite the fact that his stats in Charlotte were similar to, or even worse, than in LA.

[bws94]

If you're not religious/Christian, it's hard to sit through 50 minutes of his giving witness and proselytizing. This being said, there's some good nuggets in there. He definitely wants to start -- if there is any ambiguity about this question in the future, you can refer people to this video. He said when he had a bad game, he would go straight to McDs and get a McFlurry -- and he had a lot of McFlurries in Los Angeles. He also noted that he was more joyous and content in Charlotte than LA despite the fact that his stats in Charlotte were similar to, or even worse, than in LA.

I didn't get that out of his testimony about starting. Most NBA players want to start and I know Lin would rather start, but the overall theme of his words were about getting away from jealousy and envy through his faith. And really, to me it sounds like he values feeling good and enjoying his season with mundane grind things like riding buses, was guiding him most in how he may choose going forward.

I may not be right, but I had a different impression of what was being stressed. Didn't find starting to be one at least in terms of going forward being the top priority.

[Roy Tarpley]

Your comments are contradictory. You yourself say, "I know Lin would rather start."

Two times in the video, Lin says that he wants to be a starter. He didn't say that it was his TOP priority prospectively speaking but he did say retrospectively -- as he talks about fear -- that he wanted to be a starter.

So it's clear that among the various factors he'll consider in making his decision (e.g., coach, team style, money, teammates, minutes, etc.) that an opportunity to be a starter (as opposed to occasionally start when the starter goes down) is definitely a factor.

[bws94]

Your comments are contradictory. You yourself say, "I know Lin would rather start."

Two times in the video, Lin says that he wants to be a starter. He didn't say that it was his TOP priority prospectively speaking but he did say retrospectively -- as he talks about fear -- that he wanted to be a starter.

So it's clear that among the various factors he'll consider in making his decision (e.g., coach, team style, money, teammates, minutes, etc.) that an opportunity to be a starter (as opposed to occasionally start when the starter goes down) is definitely a factor.

Retrospectively yes, and in general most players would rather start

Yes, it's a factor with the others you mentioned. We're in agreement.

Hornets specific: I think there is a chance Lin could forego a lot of money and still consider re-signing with the Hornets. Money may not sway him to a situation where he feels those factors aren't met enough.

[fatlever]

Here's a fun exercise... Try to put a % next to all of the factors Lin will consider when choosing where to sign

% add to 100

chance to start
minutes
winning
coach/style of play/role on team
teammates/locker room/team culture
location
salary

(edit, forgot $)

[Roy Tarpley]

I would add salary as a factor. I would also combine "chance to start" with "minutes" because the ultimate goal is to play lots of minutes, not be a starter per se. I think he'd rather get 30min/game as a Ginobili type than 20min/game as a Bogut-type starter.

35% chance to start/minutes
30% coach/style of play/role on team
20% teammates/locker room/team culture
5% winning
5% salary
5% location

My guess (based on nothing other than intuition) is that he'd rather return to Charlotte at a 6th man if he knew he was guaranteed 30min/game and got $8m/year rather than go to a place like Houston, despite being a starter and having D'Antoni's system, because he has to defer to a ball-dominant Harden. But probably trumping both these is a place like Brooklyn if he can start, Atkinson implements a high-pace offense, and the teammates seem like good people.

[JMAC3]

I think when it boils down to it Lin will have three general options...

1. Sign a 1 year deal for around 12million with a bad team to be their starter. He can be their stop gap and play a ton of minutes on a bad team such as the Sixers, Nets or Memphis if Conley leaves. This option gives him a chance to prove he is a starter, but it will be a similar story the following year, because PG is the deepest position in the league right now with more coming through the draft every year.

2. Sign a very solid contract for 2-3 years guaranteed at about 8 mil/yr. However, I expect these offers to be for a 6th man type role similar to what he was doing this year for Charlotte. I expect several teams will offer this, but doubt he would leave Charlotte for a similar role to as to what he played for us this year if we offered something similar. Just because he knows the team, coaching staff, city, and we treated him well.

3. Some team offers him a massive deal like 3/30 to be their "starter" for the future. However, I think this is the least likely option and holds the most risk for Lin in the long run. He is roughly the 25th best PG in the league, which means he would be a spot holder except on a longer deal and could end up in a bad situation for the long-term. Let's all be honest, no team is signing Lin giving him the keys to the car and then not actively searching for an upgrade either through trade or the draft. Also, in this scenario he spends the last years of his prime basketball playing for a bad team more then likely and could turn into a bench player again. See this being a situation similar to what happened to him with the Lakers.

[bws94]

I would add salary as a factor. I would also combine "chance to start" with "minutes" because the ultimate goal is to play lots of minutes, not be a starter per se. I think he'd rather get 30min/game as a Ginobili type than 20min/game as a Bogut-type starter.

35% chance to start/minutes
30% coach/style of play/role on team
20% teammates/locker room/team culture
5% winning
5% salary
5% location

My guess (based on nothing other than intuition) is that he'd rather return to Charlotte at a 6th man if he knew he was guaranteed 30min/game and got $8m/year rather than go to a place like Houston, despite being a starter and having D'Antoni's system, because he has to defer to a ball-dominant Harden. But probably trumping both these is a place like Brooklyn if he can start, Atkinson implements a high-pace offense, and the teammates seem like good people.

My percentages are different. Coach/style and team mates adding up 60 percent I think. I'm not sure about chance to start/minutes, it may be big as well and winning may also be big. I don't see them as such low priorities as only 5 percent. Location is also a priority. He spends so much time emphasizing enjoying his team mates, but more how he got to that. So, it may be more in changes within himself than anything.

I think people that listen to the highlights of it may have different interpretations. But there's no doubt his last season, even though his stats weren't great, was the one he enjoyed most.

[bws94]

JMAC3. Some teams may look at Lin as that 6th man/backup combo guard to get them deeper into the playoffs or over the edge. Say if Delly leaves the Cavs, for instance. They may have an interest in Lin. Teams that also got eliminated first round may have a big interest in Lin. He may even get a good amount of offers in those types of teams.

[JMAC3]

JMAC3. Some teams may look at Lin as that 6th man/backup combo guard to get them deeper into the playoffs or over the edge. Say if Delly leaves the Cavs, for instance. They may have an interest in Lin. Teams that also got eliminated first round may have a big interest in Lin. He may even get a good amount of offers in those types of teams.

Yeah, I covered those teams with option 2.


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[Roy Tarpley]

I would add salary as a factor. I would also combine "chance to start" with "minutes" because the ultimate goal is to play lots of minutes, not be a starter per se. I think he'd rather get 30min/game as a Ginobili type than 20min/game as a Bogut-type starter.

35% chance to start/minutes
30% coach/style of play/role on team
20% teammates/locker room/team culture
5% winning
5% salary
5% location

My guess (based on nothing other than intuition) is that he'd rather return to Charlotte at a 6th man if he knew he was guaranteed 30min/game and got $8m/year rather than go to a place like Houston, despite being a starter and having D'Antoni's system, because he has to defer to a ball-dominant Harden. But probably trumping both these is a place like Brooklyn if he can start, Atkinson implements a high-pace offense, and the teammates seem like good people.

My percentages are different. Coach/style and team mates adding up 60 percent I think. I'm not sure about chance to start/minutes, it may be big as well and winning may also be big. I don't see them as such low priorities as only 5 percent. Location is also a priority. He spends so much time emphasizing enjoying his team mates, but more how he got to that. So, it may be more in changes within himself than anything.

I think people that listen to the highlights of it may have different interpretations. But there's no doubt his last season, even though his stats weren't great, was the one he enjoyed most.

He took $2m this year so clearly salary isn't a big deal. He's played in GS, NYK, HOU, LA, and CHA so clearly the location isn't the biggest factor either -- hell, he might even go to CHI to get the Midwest under his belt. And winning -- well, 16 of 30 teams make the playoffs anyways so as long as it's not a total tanking situation like the Lakers two years ago, it should be okay.

We're not really in that much disagreement, it's just that I think that the desire to self-actualize (as represented by most amount of playing time) -- which all competitive athletes have -- will be the primary determinant.

[reelsgm]

Here's a fun exercise... Try to put a % next to all of the factors Lin will consider when choosing where to sign

% add to 100

70% chance to start
0% minutes (assuming Starting PG condition met)
0% winning (assuming non-tanking team; why join a Kemba/Al team if winning was a big import - CHA wasn't tanking)
15% coach/style of play/role on team
10% teammates/locker room/team culture
0% location
5% salary (enough to show respect but not a penny more)

[steady]

Here's a fun exercise... Try to put a % next to all of the factors Lin will consider when choosing where to sign

% add to 100

I couldn't break it down to percentages but just to tiers

chance to close/significant role. - (I am not sure he would go somewhere he couldn't close)
coach/style - (one that can win championship, and that suits him)
teammates/locker room/team culture (it's more important to him than most players) ..

winning (he wants to win championship, but I don't think being on a team that can contend immediately will be his first priority because he still has time - but he probably will not want a team like Philly either)

salary (To extent and level needed to show respect, and to reflect he is of certain importance to team. but this will not be the most important thing)
location (probably won't matter very much because only thing he wants is to be closer to Cali and none of the Calif teams are probably good options for him)

**Edit - to clarify my thoughts are not reelgms

[ChokeFasncists]

~lol~ at him playing great the first two practice games in Charlotte and horribly the third.

Fear of having a mediocre career, cool; let's hope it won't happen!

Poor Landry......so many injuries......

Interesting, the stuff he talked about is kinda Buddhistic: be still, contentment, non-competitive, focus on the here and now

I'm sure it was a special experience to be Curry's backup as a rookie.

~lol~ LeBron's thumb muscle being like a rock!

~lol~ at him being pissed off at internet trolLin' LOHs! He might have read our reasonings against them and felt better!

So he talked about how even tho the circumstance was still not that good (it was better), he was much happier with the Hornets than the Lakers mostly cuz of his transformation mentally and religiously. Well, but of course, it was a proselytizing event.

Poignant story of John Griffin......so this guy screwed up......is that what happened to humanity as well? ~lol~

[13th Man]

I would add salary as a factor. I would also combine "chance to start" with "minutes" because the ultimate goal is to play lots of minutes, not be a starter per se. I think he'd rather get 30min/game as a Ginobili type than 20min/game as a Bogut-type starter.

35% chance to start/minutes
30% coach/style of play/role on team
20% teammates/locker room/team culture
5% winning
5% salary
5% location

My guess (based on nothing other than intuition) is that he'd rather return to Charlotte at a 6th man if he knew he was guaranteed 30min/game and got $8m/year rather than go to a place like Houston, despite being a starter and having D'Antoni's system, because he has to defer to a ball-dominant Harden. But probably trumping both these is a place like Brooklyn if he can start, Atkinson implements a high-pace offense, and the teammates seem like good people.

Not bad except I would bump the salary up a bit to 10% or 15%. Last year with the Hornets was a showcase year, every player wants to get paid in a true multi-year deal especially in their prime.

[Liver_Pooty]

I'd like to sig bet someone on here. I don't see him getting 8 figures from someone. 3 years 8.5 per is what I see him getting

[BeesWax]

I'd like to sig bet someone on here. I don't see him getting 8 figures from someone. 3 years 8.5 per is what I see him getting

I think he will have a 3 for 30+ offer but I think the one he takes is closer to your estimate.