'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[GSP]

The Kd situation is really strange. Cant think of an instance like this in the past. Dude was legit playing best in the league Draymond/Kawhi level defense from game 2 Spurs to the end of game 7 Warriors (was great in a game or 2 against the Mavs as well). Thats 12 games of top tier Dpoy defense. The way he completely took Draymond out of the series offensively was shocking, he was protecting the rim at an elite level, switching great, played great man D from the Splash Bros up to their bigs, ive never seen his team/help D more consistent, specially when u consider the caliber of opponent the Spurs/Warriors are.

He showed great defense in the regular season in halves. First half hed look mediocre and that hed look incredible in the 2nd, or vice versa. Ive tried to put Kawhi over him for his body of work but just looking back at it he got outplayed by Kd severely specially in that swing game 4 where Kd shut him down in the 4th and outscored the entire Spurs team by scoring 17.

I dont know, i dont feel comfortable elevating Kd over Kawhi off that 12 game sample size b/c i dont think its reflective of Kds actual defensive level. But at the same time it did happen and he did perform at that level defensively...

Meanwhile Kawhi defensively i dont feel consistently performs at his usual elite level in the playoffs. He was inconsistent against Okc, last postseason Cp3 was torching him on the high pickandrolls, and he was getting screened all over (Adams was really bodying him there in Okc series, from pindowns to high screens). I dont feel he gets as comfortable switching with the different feel/tempo/game the postseason is, doesnt seem like he keeps guys in front of him as much, he is still very disruptive/smart from his pressuring, forcing turnovers, ball denial, stifling cutters (Roberson and Russ in particular two of the better cutters in the postseason this year couldnt get much of anything there with Kawhi hawking them), the doubles etc. but hes lacking some of that hustle/grit/activity on defense to me outside of defensive rebounding

[player-hater]

I still think Curry should get #1 even though he has been struggling for loooong stretches in postseason. His offensive impact on and off ball is creating its own gravity and entire defence is comitted to him so hugely that I can hardly think about anything like this ever happend in NBA before. He has declined quite clearly under bigger pressure from physical postseason D and opponents harrassing him off the ball, though.

His all-time biggest collapse was rescued by absurd Klay Thompson performance in g6 and stellar Andre Iguodala indivudal D against Kevin Durant in crunch time but Steph himself, showed GREAT clutchness in basically all close games he has played this PS (back to Portland series as well) so if I have to sum up his PS I will say that he has had great impact on offence only b/c he stays on the court but regressed as an scorer and playmaker to that extent that we considered other Warriors players to be best player on the court multiple times - way, way to many to put his 2016 campaign in GOAT-peak conversation ever again.

So even though, he will be most likely winner in POY '16 ballot - he is biggest loser from big-picture standpoint. Drop from GOAT-peak to top15 is significant and after 2016 PS he almost automatically lost his case vs MJ. Stephen Curry is mortal again and I can't wait to see 2017 season knowing that all major players are resting from Rio and preparing to hunt Best Player belt next year. So something that seemed impossible to take from Curry after his RS - is reachable now.


anyway, we have experienced amazing season - race was as wide open as ever, top10 in league is stacked as hell and future is bright.



(sorry for offtop, I know it was probably posted in some WCF thread - but can anyone re-post here or PM me with +/- or on/off stats from Warriors-Thunder series? especially Thunder performance vs Death Lineup)

[HeartBreakKid]

Leonard's post season stats benefited a lot from facing an extremely weak opponent in Memphis as well, overall it's a decent showing for Leonard, but he wasn't anything special this post season for a player of his alleged caliber.




No doubt that winning bias plays a huge role in how people look at injuries. "So and so injuries cost this guys team to lose, therefore he is penalized more" makes pretty much zero sense.

If two players miss a game, they are affecting a game the same amount....


For instance, it took Stephen Curry until the Western Conference finals before he totaled more minutes than Chris Paul - and that's not factoring in all 4 games CP3 played in he played insanely well. If Stephen Curry was on the Clippers instead of CP3 and he got injured, then what would happen?

[parapooper]

LeBron James - exposed offensively against GS, strong argument to be made that he benefited against weaker competition in the East, hence why the strong playoff numbers

LeBron also took over as season leader in RPM during the playoffs, which adjusts for competition level. Plus his numbers in the finals are only marginally lower compared to his numbers vs. the east.
Curry on the other hand has been atrocious in 3/4 of the finals so far - should we conclude from that that he has benefited from weaker competition in the west? Until the finals every single defense Curry faced was weaker than every single defense LeBron faced (at least by DRtg).

And the Warriors have great defenders at C, PF and SF yet LeBron is putting up 25/11/8 while having to cover for everyone on defense and has very easily been the best player in that series so far. And that's with having the handicap of having one of the lowest BBIQ players in NBA history at the PG position. If he got the foul calls other stars are getting he would have been the best in the PS by a pretty sizable margin over Westbrook.

[RSCD3_]

Leonard's post season stats benefited a lot from facing an extremely weak opponent in Memphis as well, overall it's a decent showing for Leonard, but he wasn't anything special this post season for a player of his alleged caliber.




No doubt that winning bias plays a huge role in how people look at injuries. "So and so injuries cost this guys team to lose, therefore he is penalized more" makes pretty much zero sense.

If two players miss a game, they are affecting a game the same amount....


For instance, it took Stephen Curry until the Western Conference finals before he totaled more minutes than Chris Paul - and that's not factoring in all 4 games CP3 played in he played insanely well. If Stephen Curry was on the Clippers instead of CP3 and he got injured, then what would happen?

Well the clippers might not have lost if griffin didnt injure himself in the same game

[therealbig3]

LeBron James - exposed offensively against GS, strong argument to be made that he benefited against weaker competition in the East, hence why the strong playoff numbers

LeBron also took over as season leader in RPM during the playoffs, which adjusts for competition level. Plus his numbers in the finals are only marginally lower compared to his numbers vs. the east.
Curry on the other hand has been atrocious in 3/4 of the finals so far - should we conclude from that that he has benefited from weaker competition in the west? Until the finals every single defense Curry faced was weaker than every single defense LeBron faced (at least by DRtg).

And the Warriors have great defenders at C, PF and SF yet LeBron is putting up 25/11/8 while having to cover for everyone on defense and has very easily been the best player in that series so far. And that's with having the handicap of having one of the lowest BBIQ players in NBA history at the PG position. If he got the foul calls other stars are getting he would have been the best in the PS by a pretty sizable margin over Westbrook.

Come on, his numbers in game 4 were pretty much meaningless, and his stats for the series are inflated by a really good game 3. I don't think LeBron has played well in 3/4 games himself.

And I know what OKC's DRating for the season was...but they clearly had the talent to turn it on if they wanted to, and that's exactly what they did. Kevin Durant transformed into KG-lite during that series.

[Doctor MJ]

Leonard's post season stats benefited a lot from facing an extremely weak opponent in Memphis as well, overall it's a decent showing for Leonard, but he wasn't anything special this post season for a player of his alleged caliber.

If you just look at the stats from the OKC series, Kawhi scores almost as much as Westbrook while on better efficiency. I'm with you that I don't see Kawhi as utterly top tier as a scorer, but it's hard for me to justify moving Westbrook ahead of Kawhi - when I had Kawhi ahead all year - based largely on OKC upsetting SAS when even in that series Kawhi seems to be able to put up scoring numbers right there with Westbrook.

But then this gets into all the other weird comparison issues:

It's hard for me to put Westbrook over Kawhi...
but Durant over Kawhi makes a ton of sense...
and so does Westbrook over Durant.

To me it really shows how imperfect all of this is.

No doubt that winning bias plays a huge role in how people look at injuries. "So and so injuries cost this guys team to lose, therefore he is penalized more" makes pretty much zero sense.

If two players miss a game, they are affecting a game the same amount....


For instance, it took Stephen Curry until the Western Conference finals before he totaled more minutes than Chris Paul - and that's not factoring in all 4 games CP3 played in he played insanely well. If Stephen Curry was on the Clippers instead of CP3 and he got injured, then what would happen?

ftr, as someone who doesn't expect to have Paul in his Top 5 but who respects that others will, I don't really see myself as penalizing Paul so much as he's just gotten passed by others.

Specifically Westbrook & Durant. Between the RS and now what the OKC duo has confirmed is that even with their eternal fit issues, you can build something around them with no other true star talents that is championship-level even in a year with 2 other teams that flirt with GOAT candidacy. To me that's more impressive than what I saw from Paul this year.

I'll add that I'd have no problem putting Paul in my Top 5 - he's worthy - there just happens to be other guys that get the nod over him.

[Doctor MJ]

The Kd situation is really strange. Cant think of an instance like this in the past. Dude was legit playing best in the league Draymond/Kawhi level defense from game 2 Spurs to the end of game 7 Warriors (was great in a game or 2 against the Mavs as well). Thats 12 games of top tier Dpoy defense. The way he completely took Draymond out of the series offensively was shocking, he was protecting the rim at an elite level, switching great, played great man D from the Splash Bros up to their bigs, ive never seen his team/help D more consistent, specially when u consider the caliber of opponent the Spurs/Warriors are.

He showed great defense in the regular season in halves. First half hed look mediocre and that hed look incredible in the 2nd, or vice versa. Ive tried to put Kawhi over him for his body of work but just looking back at it he got outplayed by Kd severely specially in that swing game 4 where Kd shut him down in the 4th and outscored the entire Spurs team by scoring 17.

I dont know, i dont feel comfortable elevating Kd over Kawhi off that 12 game sample size b/c i dont think its reflective of Kds actual defensive level. But at the same time it did happen and he did perform at that level defensively...

Meanwhile Kawhi defensively i dont feel consistently performs at his usual elite level in the playoffs. He was inconsistent against Okc, last postseason Cp3 was torching him on the high pickandrolls, and he was getting screened all over (Adams was really bodying him there in Okc series, from pindowns to high screens). I dont feel he gets as comfortable switching with the different feel/tempo/game the postseason is, doesnt seem like he keeps guys in front of him as much, he is still very disruptive/smart from his pressuring, forcing turnovers, ball denial, stifling cutters (Roberson and Russ in particular two of the better cutters in the postseason this year couldnt get much of anything there with Kawhi hawking them), the doubles etc. but hes lacking some of that hustle/grit/activity on defense to me outside of defensive rebounding

I think I see it similarly, though perhaps more positively.

Watching Durant in these playoffs, there's just no doubt I take him over Kawhi in any kind of draft situation (even if he can never regain peak offensive form), but I don't see a reason to be actually down on Kawhi. It just turns out that OKC team is freakishly long & explosive, and Kawhi is playing on a team that just seems too old for this.

So Kawhi doesn't really drop for me, but I feel like lifting Durant up...except that if you look at the body of work, it's hard to argue Durant was even his team's MVP.

[Basileus777]

So how much will people be holding Green's suspension against him in their voting? The guy played with fire time and time again and he was lucky it took this long for his team to get burnt by it.

[Doctor MJ]

So how much will people be holding Green's suspension against him in their voting? The guy played with fire time and time again and he was lucky it took this long for his team to get burnt by it.

Hadn't saw the headline until now, so let me rant for a bit:

I really love that Silver's administration doesn't let itself be utterly constrained by poorly written rules like Stern's did, but it bugs me that what Silver's admin seems to be doing is just extending series.

If GS had been winning the series with OKC when Green did his stuff there, at this point I believe the NBA suspends him then. But OKC was winning, and the NBA had no interest in ending that series so they didn't pull that trigger, and it allowed GS to come back & win. Now it's clear that the Cavs basically have no shot against a full strength GS team so they take the opportunity to level the playing field.

I don't like the way fans get all conspiracy-minded in general, but the reality is that the refs let the physicality escalate and then LeBron taunted Green. I just can't imagine that Silver and his peeps would rule this way against Golden State if they thought it meant handing the title to Cleveland given the way they refused to do anything in the OKC series.

I say all this as a guy who tries not to focus on who actually wins when evaluating players and coaches. I'm not actually mad here, I'm just frustrated.

As for the impact on Green's POY candidacy, I'm going to have to think about it more over the time we have left but I will say this:

Part of the reason I was so down on Green in the OKC series was that in addition to looking like a boy amongst men at time he wasn't reigning himself in when he KNEW he was so close to getting suspended. I had been starting to think about whether Green qualified as both a top candidate for best BBIQ and best leader in the league, but I now see him as a bit more like a best-case scenario for Ron Artest. Artest was more dangerous and had serious BBIQ issues, but in both cases you're talking about someone who plays with intense emotion which can be wonderful for the team. It's typically a double-edged sword though.

And I'll also say, if I'm going to seriously consider Green over Curry, Paul, LeBron, or the OKC duo, it's one more thing that makes it tough. All of those guys are harder to stop, and none of those guys would let this happen to them.

[parapooper]

LeBron James - exposed offensively against GS, strong argument to be made that he benefited against weaker competition in the East, hence why the strong playoff numbers

LeBron also took over as season leader in RPM during the playoffs, which adjusts for competition level. Plus his numbers in the finals are only marginally lower compared to his numbers vs. the east.
Curry on the other hand has been atrocious in 3/4 of the finals so far - should we conclude from that that he has benefited from weaker competition in the west? Until the finals every single defense Curry faced was weaker than every single defense LeBron faced (at least by DRtg).

And the Warriors have great defenders at C, PF and SF yet LeBron is putting up 25/11/8 while having to cover for everyone on defense and has very easily been the best player in that series so far. And that's with having the handicap of having one of the lowest BBIQ players in NBA history at the PG position. If he got the foul calls other stars are getting he would have been the best in the PS by a pretty sizable margin over Westbrook.

Come on, his numbers in game 4 were pretty much meaningless, and his stats for the series are inflated by a really good game 3. I don't think LeBron has played well in 3/4 games himself.

So even in the 3 games LeBron hasn't played well his average game score is 19 while the game scores for POY candidates Curry and Green are 13.8 and 14.8 including their best games - but LeBron is the one getting exposed?

And LeBron has a better average game score in the finals than through the first 2 rounds in the East but you say his strong playoff numbers are due to weak east competition. Meanwhile, you don't use Curry being much worse in the finals to argue that his playoff numbers have benefited from weak competition in the west. I wouldn't make such an argument against Curry, but it's pretty unfair to make it against LeBron in the POY thread while his competition is doing worse using the exact same standard.

And I know what OKC's DRating for the season was...but they clearly had the talent to turn it on if they wanted to, and that's exactly what they did. Kevin Durant transformed into KG-lite during that series.

Not sure how that is relevant to anything, the DRtgs were just a side-remark.
The main points are:
1) you say LeBron has been exposed in the finals while not saying such things about the other POY candidates who have been worse than him in the finals and
2) You say the finals show LeBron's stats are inflated due to the easier conference while Curry is the one who had clearly better stats against his own conference, not LeBron.
Do you really not see you are using pretty obvious double standards for LeBron vs. Curry/Green here?

[E-Balla]

So how much will people be holding Green's suspension against him in their voting? The guy played with fire time and time again and he was lucky it took this long for his team to get burnt by it.

Hadn't saw the headline until now, so let me rant for a bit:

I really love that Silver's administration doesn't let itself be utterly constrained by poorly written rules like Stern's did, but it bugs me that what Silver's admin seems to be doing is just extending series.

If GS had been winning the series with OKC when Green did his stuff there, at this point I believe the NBA suspends him then. But OKC was winning, and the NBA had no interest in ending that series so they didn't pull that trigger, and it allowed GS to come back & win. Now it's clear that the Cavs basically have no shot against a full strength GS team so they take the opportunity to level the playing field.

I don't like the way fans get all conspiracy-minded in general, but the reality is that the refs let the physicality escalate and then LeBron taunted Green. I just can't imagine that Silver and his peeps would rule this way against Golden State if they thought it meant handing the title to Cleveland given the way they refused to do anything in the OKC series.

I say all this as a guy who tries not to focus on who actually wins when evaluating players and coaches. I'm not actually mad here, I'm just frustrated.

As for the impact on Green's POY candidacy, I'm going to have to think about it more over the time we have left but I will say this:

Part of the reason I was so down on Green in the OKC series was that in addition to looking like a boy amongst men at time he wasn't reigning himself in when he KNEW he was so close to getting suspended. I had been starting to think about whether Green qualified as both a top candidate for best BBIQ and best leader in the league, but I now see him as a bit more like a best-case scenario for Ron Artest. Artest was more dangerous and had serious BBIQ issues, but in both cases you're talking about someone who plays with intense emotion which can be wonderful for the team. It's typically a double-edged sword though.

And I'll also say, if I'm going to seriously consider Green over Curry, Paul, LeBron, or the OKC duo, it's one more thing that makes it tough. All of those guys are harder to stop, and none of those guys would let this happen to them.

I 100% agree here. Nothing to add but great post.

[bondom34]

Yeah....I mean I just. I don't even have words.

[PaulieWal]

So how much will people be holding Green's suspension against him in their voting? The guy played with fire time and time again and he was lucky it took this long for his team to get burnt by it.

Hadn't saw the headline until now, so let me rant for a bit:

I really love that Silver's administration doesn't let itself be utterly constrained by poorly written rules like Stern's did, but it bugs me that what Silver's admin seems to be doing is just extending series.

If GS had been winning the series with OKC when Green did his stuff there, at this point I believe the NBA suspends him then. But OKC was winning, and the NBA had no interest in ending that series so they didn't pull that trigger, and it allowed GS to come back & win. Now it's clear that the Cavs basically have no shot against a full strength GS team so they take the opportunity to level the playing field.

I don't like the way fans get all conspiracy-minded in general, but the reality is that the refs let the physicality escalate and then LeBron taunted Green. I just can't imagine that Silver and his peeps would rule this way against Golden State if they thought it meant handing the title to Cleveland given the way they refused to do anything in the OKC series.

I say all this as a guy who tries not to focus on who actually wins when evaluating players and coaches. I'm not actually mad here, I'm just frustrated.

As for the impact on Green's POY candidacy, I'm going to have to think about it more over the time we have left but I will say this:

Part of the reason I was so down on Green in the OKC series was that in addition to looking like a boy amongst men at time he wasn't reigning himself in when he KNEW he was so close to getting suspended. I had been starting to think about whether Green qualified as both a top candidate for best BBIQ and best leader in the league, but I now see him as a bit more like a best-case scenario for Ron Artest. Artest was more dangerous and had serious BBIQ issues, but in both cases you're talking about someone who plays with intense emotion which can be wonderful for the team. It's typically a double-edged sword though.

And I'll also say, if I'm going to seriously consider Green over Curry, Paul, LeBron, or the OKC duo, it's one more thing that makes it tough. All of those guys are harder to stop, and none of those guys would let this happen to them.

I mostly agree. My thing is that I am not sure what happened between last year and this but the NBA has decided to treat Green like some untouchable superstar. He routinely taunts other players, gets in their faces, shows up refs, plays dirty and is allowed to get away with it.

Now what I'll say is if the league is gonna allow physical play then I am all for it but we all know if a non-star player was doing even half the stuff that Green does he would be suspended for a lot of games and would probably be paying 100s of thousands in fines.

The league is definitely doing this to extend the series but I have 0 sympathy for a guy like Green. Since he was let off the hook for the Adams nut kick he has done the following:

- Tripped up Kanter in the very next game
- Tackled Adams in game 7 and pulled his arm down the same way Olynyk did to Love
- Kicked Irving in the chest in game 1
- Almost hit Bron in the nuts

This is getting ridiculous at this point. Ideally he should have been suspended for the Adams kick and the subsequent actions should have resulted in more techs/fines.

All I want is going forward that Green shouldn't be allowed to play with a different level of physicality in the name of being a "physical defensive player".

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah....I mean I just. I don't even have words.

I just keep saying it, and I don't know if it helps at all but:

Your team isn't going to win the title this year (obviously), but in terms of how I judge them, they effectively did.

This isn't to say that I'm putting an asterisk by Golden State, because that's not what I do, but I can't take seriously any argument about OKC being disappointments.

You'll see me harping on Westbrook from time to time though of course...because that IS what I do.

[bondom34]

Yeah....I mean I just. I don't even have words.

I just keep saying it, and I don't know if it helps at all but:

Your team isn't going to win the title this year (obviously), but in terms of how I judge them, they effectively did.

This isn't to say that I'm putting an asterisk by Golden State, because that's not what I do, but I can't take seriously any argument about OKC being disappointments.

You'll see me harping on Westbrook from time to time though of course...because that IS what I do.

I know.

I still have a hard time even watching the Finals right now, I've barely seen any of it. This was the worst feeling I've had going out in a while, even through the injured years, just seems like any minor thing could have changed so much. And now there's probably no player I want to see not win more than Green in the NBA. I know that's a really biased statement, but right now its just honest.

Edit: And I've never been a conspiracy theory guy, but this is making it harder.

[Texas Chuck]

Draymond is clearly a very high IQ player who has difficultly controlling his emotions. But that's two totally separate issues for me. And I'd live with the fallout from the emotional side because its pretty clear he needs that stuff to be fully engaged.

I agree with Doc that the optics suggest the NBA making discipline issues for monetary reasons which sucks for me as a purist, but something I sadly fully understand as they are a for-profit entity. If I was OKC's ownership tho I would not be letting this go. I would be bringing it up the next time the owners get together complete with full video evidence. Because while doing it the way they did is best for the Association, its absolutely not best for OKC. And this ownership group has played a major role in keeping that team very competitive in a very small market.

All major sports leagues need to outsourcee all player discipline to a collectively-bargained 3rd party. We've seen the conflicts of interest get really ugly in the NFL in particular but we also have the concussed NHL player who cross checked a ref and got the book thrown at him for all the wrong reasons.

The league needs to be protected from itself because its too easy to make arbitrary choices that bring out the conspiracy people in other areas. Like Philly got rewarded with the first pick for replacing Hinkie and ending the supertank. The reason people believe that is because of things like Doc talked about above.

[Doctor MJ]

So how much will people be holding Green's suspension against him in their voting? The guy played with fire time and time again and he was lucky it took this long for his team to get burnt by it.

Hadn't saw the headline until now, so let me rant for a bit:

I really love that Silver's administration doesn't let itself be utterly constrained by poorly written rules like Stern's did, but it bugs me that what Silver's admin seems to be doing is just extending series.

If GS had been winning the series with OKC when Green did his stuff there, at this point I believe the NBA suspends him then. But OKC was winning, and the NBA had no interest in ending that series so they didn't pull that trigger, and it allowed GS to come back & win. Now it's clear that the Cavs basically have no shot against a full strength GS team so they take the opportunity to level the playing field.

I don't like the way fans get all conspiracy-minded in general, but the reality is that the refs let the physicality escalate and then LeBron taunted Green. I just can't imagine that Silver and his peeps would rule this way against Golden State if they thought it meant handing the title to Cleveland given the way they refused to do anything in the OKC series.

I say all this as a guy who tries not to focus on who actually wins when evaluating players and coaches. I'm not actually mad here, I'm just frustrated.

As for the impact on Green's POY candidacy, I'm going to have to think about it more over the time we have left but I will say this:

Part of the reason I was so down on Green in the OKC series was that in addition to looking like a boy amongst men at time he wasn't reigning himself in when he KNEW he was so close to getting suspended. I had been starting to think about whether Green qualified as both a top candidate for best BBIQ and best leader in the league, but I now see him as a bit more like a best-case scenario for Ron Artest. Artest was more dangerous and had serious BBIQ issues, but in both cases you're talking about someone who plays with intense emotion which can be wonderful for the team. It's typically a double-edged sword though.

And I'll also say, if I'm going to seriously consider Green over Curry, Paul, LeBron, or the OKC duo, it's one more thing that makes it tough. All of those guys are harder to stop, and none of those guys would let this happen to them.

I mostly agree. My thing is that I am not sure what happened between last year and this but the NBA has decided to treat Green like some untouchable superstar. He routinely taunts other players, gets in their faces, shows up refs, plays dirty and is allowed to get away with it.

Now what I'll say is if the league is gonna allow physical play then I am all for it but we all know if a non-star player was doing even half the stuff that Green does he would be suspended for a lot of games and would probably be paying 100s of thousands in fines.

The league is definitely doing this to extend the series but I have 0 sympathy for a guy like Green. Since he was let off the hook for the Adams nut kick he has done the following:

- Tripped up Kanter in the very next game
- Tackled Adams in game 7 and pulled his arm down the same way Olynyk did to Love
- Kicked Irving in the chest in game 1
- Almost hit Bron in the nuts

This is getting ridiculous at this point. Ideally he should have been suspended for the Adams kick and the subsequent actions should have resulted in more techs/fines.

All I want is going forward that Green shouldn't be allowed to play with a different level of physicality in the name of being a "physical defensive player".

What it always comes down to me is something simple:

If someone is manipulating calls in a way the NBA doesn't want, they need to do something about it, and do it promptly.

Enforcing the letter of the law is not the point, but where the game is being "hacked" by purposeful rule manipulation, you have to come down hard or it will propagate.

Note that this is as true for rip-through moves and flopping as it is for violence, but the violence is the part where I just feel like you really don't need to be smart to understand that it just cannot be allowed to continue.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah....I mean I just. I don't even have words.

I just keep saying it, and I don't know if it helps at all but:

Your team isn't going to win the title this year (obviously), but in terms of how I judge them, they effectively did.

This isn't to say that I'm putting an asterisk by Golden State, because that's not what I do, but I can't take seriously any argument about OKC being disappointments.

You'll see me harping on Westbrook from time to time though of course...because that IS what I do.

I know.

I still have a hard time even watching the Finals right now, I've barely seen any of it. This was the worst feeling I've had going out in a while, even through the injured years, just seems like any minor thing could have changed so much. And now there's probably no player I want to see not win more than Green in the NBA. I know that's a really biased statement, but right now its just honest.

Edit: And I've never been a conspiracy theory guy, but this is making it harder.

Completely understandable.

Re: conspiracy. The thing about most conspiracy theories is that people aren't really able to put themselves into the shoes of the people they see as the conspirators.

It's not remotely worthwhile for the NBA to rig the lottery because it involves serious organization for iffy reward with potentially devastating consequences.

On the other hand here, the NBA can render whatever verdict they want and so it's not even really a conspiracy other than the fact that they won't acknowledge their motivations. They'll basically try to hide behind people saying "he got one more chance and blew it", ignoring the fact that that he just kept getting more chances until he did it at a point where the NBA could act in a seemingly strict way while at the same time help a series get more competitive.

I'll also say here: The stuff I"m alleging isn't necessarily even something Silver & co are conscious of. It frankly is possible to let your subjective impulses rule your judgment this blindly. I just have a hard time by that a man as shrewd as Silver is one of those men.

[Doctor MJ]

Draymond is clearly a very high IQ player who has difficultly controlling his emotions. But that's two totally separate issues for me. And I'd live with the fallout from the emotional side because its pretty clear he needs that stuff to be fully engaged.

I get that perspective but the issue is that you can't really claim that all of Green's stuff in the playoffs came as a result of him seeing red. What we're really seeing is a guy who has some degree of dirt built into his game without the wherewithal to rein it in when he needs to, and that isn't high BBIQ.

That isn't to say that Green doesn't qualify as high BBIQ because he does, but I don't think you can entirely separate intellect and emotion here. It's a bit more like Green is tactically brilliant but strategically spotty.